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Expanding

What’s the best way to expand and get another van on the road .

I have been window cleaning for 10yrs and am mad mad busy but don’t want to kill myself busting a gut to get to everyone .

Some advice would be great
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You've been cleaning windows 10 years but don't know how to get more customers?

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Buy a van, find an employee and get some more work.

 
To be able to do more work faster have you considered going wfp ? I was in your position 14 years ago that’s what I did Evan busier now though ????

 
Thank you guys .
I will Defo be putting my prices up .
I don’t really feel comfortable getting just anyone to work for me as I clean quite a few multi million pound houses and can’t just send anyone to do those as trust is a major thing .
First things first is a 20% rise [emoji1303][emoji1303][emoji1303]


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If you have the workload that allows you to pay a few quid to a guy, that is great. Finding someone who is a good worker and reliable is a different story. I have had guys do jobs here and there for me but I am yet to take a guy on fully as been let down so many times by others meant to do jobs for me. I think I am suffering from a case of being able to account for my own work all these years and having to rely and hope someone else does a good job for you that won't lose you customers is something that worries me.

When I do take someone on, ideally I would either like a guy in the trade already that is looking for extra work or training someone who and getting them set up as a sole trader so it's less responsibility on my end. Also, I think I would pay them monthly as it would give me time to gather funds if some customers dragging their heels on payment. I get lot of payments from stores through the bank and they most of them aren't reliable. Finding someone who is trustworthy, good worker and motivated I'm sure is something all employers have nightmares about.

 
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If you have the workload that allows you to pay a few quid to a guy, that is great. Finding someone who is a good worker and reliable is a different story. I have had guys do jobs here and there for me but I am yet to take a guy on fully as been let down so many times by others meant to do jobs for me. I think I am suffering from a case of being able to account for my own work all these years and having to rely and hope someone else does a good job for you that won't lose you customers is something that worries me.

When I do take someone on, ideally I would either like a guy in the trade already that is looking for extra work or training someone who and getting them set up as a sole trader so it's less responsibility on my end. Also, I think I would pay them monthly as it would give me time to gather funds if some customers dragging their heels on payment. I get lot of payments from stores through the bank and they most of them aren't reliable. Finding someone who is trustworthy, good worker and motivated I'm sure is something all employers have nightmares about.
To get someone to work for you on a self employed basis is a minefield. The 3 main criteria are 1. Must own own tools and vehicle 2. Have there own work as well as any you give them 3. Must have an end date for your work. Otherwise they're classed as an employee regardless of if they have there own insurance, do self assessments etc.

 
Yeah true enough mate, I have loads of gear that I could easily start someone out and add to their existing equipment. Own mode of transport if a must. Getting set up as sole trader is easy enough too. I subcontract for a few different big cleaning companies and I have never been informed of an end date as a supplier for any of the contractors here or in the UK that I have worked for over the last 15 years or so.

 
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To get someone to work for you on a self employed basis is a minefield. The 3 main criteria are 1. Must own own tools and vehicle 2. Have there own work as well as any you give them 3. Must have an end date for your work. Otherwise they're classed as an employee regardless of if they have there own insurance, do self assessments etc.






But who cheaks up on this ? Or enforces it? I know a number of cleaners who work on a self employed basis and have done so for years , if they invoice you once a month for a set figure who can prove what it’s for hours wise could be for 2 hours or a couple of hundred hours , if they have there own work who can prove how much they do for you or themselves , if they are registered with hmrc as self employed hmrc won’t ask for a list of there customers , and a brake down of what they do for you , Ime not trying to be awkward but non of this seams provable to me a very woolly situation most accountants don’t see a problem with it , as for pensions the “employees “ can opt out anyway so the whole thing seams a compleat waist of time , it’s a system that at the moment can easily be circumvented , Ime genuinely intrested in this and not saying you are wrong : it’s very Intresting to see what people do over the country with this situation  

 
Agree with this. I have been going to my accounts for decades and not once has she asked for a list or a break down of the stores i do. She just wants to know figures.

 
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Pimlico Plumbers (£4 mil turnover) famously lostntge case last year. Judge ruled that all the supposed 'subs' were actual employees. 

A fellow in Derby last year lost his house, caravan and most assets as he ran a large cash business for years with iffy book keeping. HMRC 'aproximated' all his back taxes. He couldn't pay it off they seized his assets.  With HMRC they don't need to take you to court anymore mot since a 2013 ruling now straight to the Baillifs. 

If you want to grow it's not complex.  Get a second vehicle ready.  Make sure you have the workload available for two then advertise for an employee. Simple

 
Pimlico Plumbers (£4 mil turnover) famously lostntge case last year. Judge ruled that all the supposed 'subs' were actual employees. 

A fellow in Derby last year lost his house, caravan and most assets as he ran a large cash business for years with iffy book keeping. HMRC 'aproximated' all his back taxes. He couldn't pay it off they seized his assets.  With HMRC they don't need to take you to court anymore mot since a 2013 ruling now straight to the Baillifs. 

If you want to grow it's not complex.  Get a second vehicle ready.  Make sure you have the workload available for two then advertise for an employee. Simple






I wasnt talking about evading paying tax , what I was saying is if two self employed people work together as one buisness technically one should be an employee? However if one of them invoices the other for work done , it’s difficult to prove how many hours it’s for is it a couple of hours a week each week or is it full time work difficult to prove either way , again both people will be paying tax so what’s the problem? Evan if one is an employee he can opt out of a pension so to me the whole thing seams a waist of time , however like the example you have just used then yes I can see a problem , bit like uber that’s what they do and many large national firms do the same , I just feel if two people want to work together why shouldn’t they be allowed to providing they are paying tax and national insurance it should be there choise : there are thousands of builders through the country that work this way always hav3 done always will 

 
All cracks me up

How can I grow a big business to make me lots of pennies

But

I want to fiddle and cut corners and not do what big companies do.


It’s an absolute ******* nightmare and ball ache.


If you questioning it don’t do it!!
If you are doing it I have a cold beer waiting for you and a box of aspirin !!
You’ll need it


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Surly the best thing to do then would be to compact and split and rent it out at your chosen rate...……………..surly that wouldn't be employing?

 
Surly the best thing to do then would be to compact and split and rent it out at your chosen rate...……………..surly that wouldn't be employing?
There are a lot of different views on this, what you are talking about if down the route of franchising, but not franchising. Pimlico plumbers were renting a van and giving work to the chap, he was happy for years.... Then he falls ill and decides he was actually an employee and wants the benefits he was ''entitled to'' such as sick pay, holiday pay etc... People focus on the set up but it's actually how you treat those people once they work for you. Do you discipline people? Do you give the person work and tell them what they are doing or do you agree an amount of work they are able to do this week. Do you stop them working elsewhere..... and so on. Problem is this is a grey area. I am confident I know how what needs to be done at the moment but there is nothing to stop this coming to bite anyone in 10/15 years time.

 
Surly the best thing to do then would be to compact and split and rent it out at your chosen rate...……………..surly that wouldn't be employing?
This is what I’ve just done. I already have an employee and I’m very close to the vat threshold and I’m happy were I am and don’t intend on crossing it( been warned off doing this by various small businesses unless your planning on goin massive). I have too much work for two but for the reasons given can’t take on another employee so I’ve decided to rent. I found a good lad(which is the hard part) and I give him £400 per week with a return of £100. It’s not much but it’s 100% legal and works for me in my situation. He’s also buzzin cos he’s workin 2 days for a 5 day week minimum wage whilst also growing his own business. Obviously a time will come when he has enough of his own work and I’ll have to find someone else but this also happens with employees so it’s swings and roundabouts. What I’m thinking now though is if you could rent out £6000 per week with a return of £1500 with no employee benefits to sort, no expenses or admin either with your only job being to keep everyone in check and make spot checks on the work to make sure it’s not goin to pot. That would be a nice wage for doin naff all. Now someone will probs say(not mentioning any names) why don’t you do it properly and go vat reg and build a proper business. Tbh from what I’ve heard it’s too much hard work and red tape and I’d rather just be out myself grafting.


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