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Carts69

Pump problem dead end

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Carts69

I’m new to wfp, my system is new & im still trying to get my head around the pump & controller, problem is when I switch it on & complete calibration, 30 is flashing followed by “de” which I know is dead end, there is no flow as the pump seems to be stoping & starting, but no flow, any ideas please?

 

 

079BC368-AF94-4FCE-97BA-5A3ED4338B2E.jpeg

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Carts69

Cancel.. good old u tube 👍

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Carts69
1 hour ago, Suhrly said:

What was the problem then?

Seems I had an air lock, it’s now pumping great!

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chris clean
On 01/04/2018 at 20:30, Carts69 said:

Seems I had an air lock, it’s now pumping great!

How did u clear the air block mate? I have same issue!

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Part Timer
1 minute ago, chris clean said:

How did u clear the air block mate? I have same issue!

Disconnect pipe past pump, turn it on and suck pipe.

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chris clean
13 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

Disconnect pipe past pump, turn it on and suck pipe.

Thanks for answer mate I have disconncted pipe that exits pump and sucked all clear to end that joins hose and pump still not kicking in. Not sure if could be air in pump or how to clear it?! Any ideas

Edited by chris clean

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Part Timer
2 hours ago, chris clean said:

Thanks for answer mate I have disconncted pipe that exits pump and sucked all clear to end that joins hose and pump still not kicking in. Not sure if could be air in pump or how to clear it?! Any ideas

The pipe you're sucking should be connected to pump, turn pump on and then suck the water through the pump

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chris clean
1 hour ago, Part Timer said:

The pipe you're sucking should be connected to pump, turn pump on and then suck the water through the pump

Thanks  mate I have tried this pump still not kicking in just pulsing away.any other ideas on causes? Cheers

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Suhrly

Have you tried turning your controller up to max for a couple of minutes to try and shift the blockage?

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Part Timer
25 minutes ago, chris clean said:

Thanks  mate I have tried this pump still not kicking in just pulsing away.any other ideas on causes? Cheers

Blocked filter is the only other thing that I know of

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P4dstar
3 hours ago, chris clean said:

Thanks  mate I have tried this pump still not kicking in just pulsing away.any other ideas on causes? Cheers

I have the exact same controller in the pic and the same backing board so if yours is the same too then the codes aren't always right. First time this happened to me it switched between P5 or PS (who knows) and DE. First time the battery was too flat to run the pump (There was no sound as if the pump was working that time) the second time same 2 codes came up but primarily P5 and I needed to purge the pump. I had to fill the water above the level of the pump and then run it through (make sure it isn't connected to DI etc art this point, that might sort it.

Edited by P4dstar

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Sam Hodgson
5 hours ago, chris clean said:

Thanks  mate I have tried this pump still not kicking in just pulsing away.any other ideas on causes? Cheers

Hello mate, I had this issue and couldn't suck it through etc. Ended up with a genius bit of kit....

 

I had a spare metre of hosepipe and put a wingnut screw on one end to directly connect to the pump... on the other end I put a hozelock connection and connected it to my mains water which has a good pressure. Turned on the water and it blasted whatever **** was blocking the pump out and now works perfectly. I now have the hose handy for if it ever happens again.

 

Hope this helps!

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P4dstar
25 minutes ago, Sam Hodgson said:

Hello mate, I had this issue and couldn't suck it through etc. Ended up with a genius bit of kit....

 

I had a spare metre of hosepipe and put a wingnut screw on one end to directly connect to the pump... on the other end I put a hozelock connection and connected it to my mains water which has a good pressure. Turned on the water and it blasted whatever **** was blocking the pump out and now works perfectly. I now have the hose handy for if it ever happens again.

 

Hope this helps!

Thats a cracking shout! @chris clean let us know if either of these work for you. Interested to know if the tap pressure option works (If required of course)

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Sam Hodgson
3 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

Thats a cracking shout! @chris clean let us know if either of these work for you. Interested to know if the tap pressure option works (If required of course)

The thing was the pump sounded like it was working perfecty, the water source was there but I just couldn't get anything to come out the other side. Crazy to think that something so tiny has the ability to completely stop any water from getting through!

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P4dstar
1 minute ago, Sam Hodgson said:

The thing was the pump sounded like it was working perfecty, the water source was there but I just couldn't get anything to come out the other side. Crazy to think that something so tiny has the ability to completely stop any water from getting through!

Nah mate, @Tuffers reminded me to clean out my strainer which looked spotless. I took it apart and it was full of plastic shards, improved my flow rate massively. Its mad to think such small things can make such a big difference

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Carts69
7 hours ago, P4dstar said:

Its mad to think such small things can make such a big difference

Her indoors always says that to me 😬

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spruce

What is your DE setting @chris clean? This is not the flow setting but the 'pressure' setting. Window cleaners can get flow and calibration settings confused. If you look at the Spring analogue controller you will see that there are two control k nobs, one for flow and a separate one for dead end adjustment.

http://springltd.co/analogue-controllers

Your digital controller has the exact same features. It just manages those features digitally.

 

I'm going to attach a reply to someone who was asking a question in a similar vein (not exactly the same question) by Ian Sheppard of Spring Controllers on another forum 3 years ago. If you study and understand this response it may help you to identify where your problem lies. This question was why the pump pulses on DE (dead end) and sometimes a lag or delay is noticed between opening the tap and activation of the pump. Sometimes that delay is long and sometimes it seems the pump starts immediately.

 

 

The delay could be down to a number of factors, such as hose wall expansion rates, run of hose height of the pole, Size of brush jets ID of the hose and connectors. Controller set up may also be a factor.

To get a better idea of your set up can I ask a few questions.
1. What is the hose and connectors ID
2. What size jets do you have
3. How much hose are you running out
4. Height of the pole
5. Lastly what are the flow rates and Calibration set to

I am working on the basis the trolley has a 100PSI 5.2 Ltr per min pump with a max current rating or 8 or 9 amps

I suspect the issue you are experiencing may be down to the time it takes the pump to pressure the system. System pressure is generated by the pump,hose and jets. The expansion rate or the hose wall expansion rate will also have an impact on time to pressure the system.
The Controller does not effect pressure but is able to monitor changes.
Calibration of the controller to the pump allows the controller to know the base operating pressure in the system and how much current is being drawn by the pump. (EG this could be 50 PSI and the pump draws 3 amps) each system will vary slightly. 
When the pole tap is used to stop water flow the pump will continue to try push against the restriction, this increases pressure in the system the controller sees this change and dead ends the pump. Now the higher the calibration the slower the controller reacts to this change and the lower calibration the faster it reacts. In turn a high Calibration figure could mean the controller will be slower to restart the pump and come out of DE.

While the pump is in dead end  the controller will retest the condition every 3 seconds. The reason for DE test is so the controller knows when water is flowing or stopped. Now if you happen to turn the pole tap at the beginning of the cycle the pump could take 3 seconds to start,  Take into account that the pole is against the glass and water pressure has to work against gravity this might explain the delay you are seeing.
As a general rule on some occasions when you restart flow the DE test cycle will either be in the middle or end of the cycle so water would flow quicker.

Another factor, when you turn the pole tap some pressure between the tap and the brush head will dissipate in effect even after turning off flow residual pressure in the line will push some water out of the brush head leaving some pole hose with no pressure and no water in it. On restarting flow this section of the hose will need to re pressurize this may lead to a short delay in water to the brush head on the glass.

They will always be a short delay in water flowing to the brush when the pole tap is re opened depending on some of the factors already mentioned. With a system under pressure it can sometimes appear to be instant in reality there is usually a small delay as the line re pressurizes.

To reduce the delay the correct calibration settings needs to be found for the system. My suggestion initially would be to use the auto calibration feature of the controller. To get this as accurate as possible I would suggest you run line out from the trolley plus attach the pole and brush, provided it can be done safely either stand the pole up with it extended or have someone hold the pole in an extended position.  This creates that normal operating pressure mentioned earlier now run the auto calibration. 
See video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kKoskb7l7c&index=15&list=PLUpfSwT7wIhfyiM-jbIDJPoH0UlNQZL9y

 

for more information on systems pressure this article gives some insights
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pressure-dynamics-wfp-system-ian-sheppard?trk=mp-author-card


 

 

Edited by spruce

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