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Greying on UPVC

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P4dstar

P4dstar

Premium Member
Messages
3,957
Location
Gloucestershire
I took on a one off clean last week where the chap had serious grey marks on the UPVC. They scrubbed off with a damp cloth but the brush did nothing for them. They were green in areas which came off easily as usual but they clearly hadn't been cleaned in 10 years+. I've been noticing the grey marks in the corner of windows since but never really though about it before. To cut a long story short the guy was expecting sparkling white frames which I assume would have needed UPVC polish. To scrub them to the standard he expected would have taken all day. Is there anything that can be done to tackle this or am I right in thinking he was looking for a UPVC clean and not a normal window clean?

 
I don’t know about anyone else but I’d class that as more of a restore rather than a one off and priced accordingly. PVC cleaner or astonish paste and a fine brush job.

A lot more than regular first clean. How did you leave it with him?

 
Neilmnwc said:
I don’t know about anyone else but I’d class that as more of a restore rather than a one off and priced accordingly. PVC cleaner or astonish paste and a fine brush job.

A lot more than regular first clean. How did you leave it with him?
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Spent 2 hours cleaning for £25 and told him we can do a upvc clean for £200 but it will take all day... Thankfully he decided he would go to screw fix and pick up some UPVC cleaner for a fiver instead and do it himself. Too much attention to detail on a job like that. I just found myself going over and over areas again and again to get a good clean. Lesson learned for future cleans!!

 
He was obviously looking for a restoration job....a TOTALLY different kettle of fish to a normal window clean which obviously takes a LOT longer. And the price needs to reflect that. Unger rubout and bronze wool is good for that I believe should you take on a job like that.

 
P4dstar said:
Spent 2 hours cleaning for £25 and told him we can do a upvc clean for £200 but it will take all day... Thankfully he decided he would go to screw fix and pick up some UPVC cleaner for a fiver instead and do it himself. Too much attention to detail on a job like that. I just found myself going over and over areas again and again to get a good clean. Lesson learned for future cleans!!
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Ouch.  I hate jobs where you know your eating into your time and money, although it makes you adapt.?

 
I would also go into something like this with my eyes wide open. We have a few customers whose rubber seals have perished and leave black lines at various points across the frame. You may get the frames sparkling white by doing a restore but after the first rains the frames will be black again.

Its nothing to do with you, but your customers may not see it that way.

As far as we are concerned, we are simple window cleaners who wash frames as well. We don't get involved with restore jobs. I usually tell any new customers that we won't remove any stains on the white UPVC frames before we start the first clean.

 
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Neilmnwc said:
Ouch.  I hate jobs where you know your eating into your time and money, although it makes you adapt.?
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Yeah man lesson learned... I only had 3 customers on that day so it was good time to learn it haha

spruce said:
I would also go into something like this with my eyes wide open. We have a few customers whose rubber seals have perished and leave black lines at various points across the frame. You may get the frames sparkling white by doing a restore but after the first rains the frames will be black again.

Its nothing to do with you, but your customers may not see it that way.

As far as we are concerned, we are simple window cleaners who wash frames as well. We don't get involved with restore jobs. I usually tell any new customers that we won't remove any stains on the white UPVC frames before we start the first clean.
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Oh wow!! That could be a right mess... I think I’ll go with that route from now on. 

 
I'm with spruce on this one. Once you start down that rout they will expect it every time and its just not viable. I'd go so far as to say that even new black seals can cause this problem in some cases.

 
P4dstar said:
Yeah man lesson learned... I only had 3 customers on that day so it was good time to learn it haha

Oh wow!! That could be a right mess... I think I’ll go with that route from now on. 
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We do get asked to clean soffits, fascias and gutters which we do. We specifically tell our customers that we will clean them to the highest standard we can. There will be stains and water marks that we won't be able to remove. In 99% of cases customers understand that although we did have one whose expectations were higher than we delivered.

I have also tried to set and achieve standards that are higher than the customer expects, but in this particular case he was expecting better than new. Although he was disappointed I was still happy with the quality of the clean we did. We actually spent more time on it than we would normally have done.

I still think that the most important attribute to have is "customer care". What would I expect if I was the customer?  As Peter Vardy (Reg Vardy Motor dealerships then CEO) would say; we need to exceed our customer's expectations. That's what your reputation is based on and that will go a long way when you ask for customer referals.

 
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That's restoration work nothing to do with window cleaning I tell them I wash the frames if you say you will clean the frames they assume they will be brought back to life :1f644:

 
spruce said:
We do get asked to clean soffits, fascias and gutters which we do. We specifically tell our customers that we will clean them to the highest standard we can. There will be stains and water marks that we won't be able to remove. In 99% of cases customers understand that although we did have one whose expectations were higher than we delivered.

I have also tried to set and achieve standards that are higher than the customer expects, but in this particular case he was expecting better than new. Although he was disappointed I was still happy with the quality of the clean we did. We actually spent more time on it than we would normally have done.

I still think that the most important attribute to have is "customer care". What would I expect if I was the customer?  As Peter Vardy (Reg Vardy Motor dealerships then CEO) would say; we need to exceed our customer's expectations. That's what your reputation is based on and that will go a long way when you ask for customer referals.
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I think where i went wrong was not gaining an understanding of what his expectation was. I was aware he expected a couple of frames cloth wiping which is no problem but not scrubbing into the corners of every single frame. Alarm bells should have started ringing when he kept asking what would I do, jet wash them? I thought, thats a strange question. In fairness I did remove the nice green slime from his upstairs frames and completely transformed the property, he paid nice and quickly so I assume he realised he got his moneys worth and left it at that.

 
P4dstar said:
I think where i went wrong was not gaining an understanding of what his expectation was. I was aware he expected a couple of frames cloth wiping which is no problem but not scrubbing into the corners of every single frame. Alarm bells should have started ringing when he kept asking what would I do, jet wash them? I thought, thats a strange question. In fairness I did remove the nice green slime from his upstairs frames and completely transformed the property, he paid nice and quickly so I assume he realised he got his moneys worth and left it at that.
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You mustn't beat yourself up about it. It wasn't a train smash and nobody was injured or lost their lives. What you have taken away from this is experience. We have all been there at some point and that's why we can tell the story.

At least you stuck it out and completed the job - some would have stopped work and walked away.

 
Frames that haven't being cleaned in years or have deteriorated over the last 15-20 years can't be rescued as already covered.

But some clients want them to be instead of replacing the windows and expect not to pay to much and expect and thoroughly first clean to work like magic.

One of the reasons why I sacked off F.S.G cleans as some will require getting up a ladder to get them a 100% and I want to deliver a top service, but I ain't going up a ladder to clean gutters for anyone.

County Durham Lad

 
Iron Giant said:
Frames that haven't being cleaned in years or have deteriorated over the last 15-20 years can't be rescued as already covered.

But some clients want them to be instead of replacing the windows and expect not to pay to much and expect and thoroughly first clean to work like magic.

One of the reasons why I sacked off F.S.G cleans as some will require getting up a ladder to get them a 100% and I want to deliver a top service, but I ain't going up a ladder to clean gutters for anyone.

County Durham Lad
 
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Agree. If it doesn't come off with a brush then it stays on.

 
I seem to be alone here but i consider it as part of a first clean. If a first clean takes you half a day and you need to charge £100 or whatever then so be it. Often that’s not the case. I restore on the first clean because it gives the customer and myself the wow factor when their whites are turned around. I’ve charged £60-£100 on first cleans on a few occasions when they really are that bad. I love doing pvc restoration on the frames. It sets us apart from the rest and although my phone dont ring that often, people know that when they phone us they are getting the next best thing to having their windows replaced. I dont want people looking at our customers houses going cooorr those frames are grey and ****. Thats not what im about. We have our rounds yes but we are starting to become more of a call out business.
Id rather clean them on a one off and make one visit and get everything as good as possible, rather than have someone paying £10 a month only for their frames to still look grey ten months down the line & £100 spent. But thats just me.


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TJTOPCAT said:
Definitely a upvc restoration, don’t be afraid to walk, it was a one off. No way would I have afforded 2 hours at a property for £25.
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I disagree man. I under quoted myself which was a big learning curve. I think when you make a mistake like that you gotta deal with it like a man and finish the job. If I walked and one of his neighbours asked 'who was that window cleaner you used?'... what would he say. The next time someone recommends me on Facebook and he pops underneath and says 'don't bother with them, they left without finishing the job'. There needs to be a limit of course, we're not running Barnardos here but the guys was perfectly polite, just not ecstatic about the frames. If he said he wasn't paying unless they came up sparkling I would have walked.

Like I say, lesson learned! I will use some of the advice people have given on here about wording it differently etc. I don't think I want to go as far as @Incheck said but at least if I set expectations from the start i'm less likely to run into difficulties later on.

 
Incheck said:
I seem to be alone here but i consider it as part of a first clean. If a first clean takes you half a day and you need to charge £100 or whatever then so be it. Often that’s not the case. I restore on the first clean because it gives the customer and myself the wow factor when their whites are turned around. I’ve charged £60-£100 on first cleans on a few occasions when they really are that bad. I love doing pvc restoration on the frames. It sets us apart from the rest and although my phone dont ring that often, people know that when they phone us they are getting the next best thing to having their windows replaced. I dont want people looking at our customers houses going cooorr those frames are grey and ****. Thats not what im about. We have our rounds yes but we are starting to become more of a call out business.
Id rather clean them on a one off and make one visit and get everything as good as possible, rather than have someone paying £10 a month only for their frames to still look grey ten months down the line & £100 spent. But thats just me.


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If you are advertising a restoration sideline then that's fine if that's what people want on a specific job, But if you are rolling up to do a quote and saying £60-100 you won't get many calls at all or referrals. I have well over 300 regular jobs and I would say less than 1% need restoration but the window frames are close to 20 years old and aren't far of needing replacing.

One job in particular the black gasket/seals are always leaching black and staining the frames and have being for years, even though I can shift most of it with a regular clean it's a lost cause. But I get enquires on new build estates on a almost daily basis and my client base is always growing. 

 
Well it all depends on what they’ve got doesn’t it. E.g. one at £100- had a knackered old conny that i didnt really want to touch, 4 panel i think, and a 2 or 3 panel porch i cant remember. Then one at £60 had a 3 panel conny lean to thing. Windows were particularly bad also so went 30 on the windows 30 on the lean to.
I always restore now because back in the early days when i wasnt experienced i was pulled up on it by someone who got really shirty about the greys. I didnt know how to remove it all back then but i do now and have since restored all of our regulars to that standard bit by bit over time. If the frames are in good nick and glass is ok ish sometimes i dont charge extra for first cleans. But i wont just not restore for the sake of winning work.
End of the day its like cleaning your bath tiles, anyone can wash em over with a shower head and and a bit of mr muscle and say they’ve been cleaned. But when its bad you need to be getting that steam cleaner out to get real results.
With windows the attitude should be the same no?
Its not as hard to do as people think & doesnt take too long to do.
i think a lot of windys either just cant be bothered or are afraid of pricing the work out.
On large houses the cost could be significant enough to put people off but hey ho innit


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Incheck said:
Well it all depends on what they’ve got doesn’t it. E.g. one at £100- had a knackered old conny that i didnt really want to touch, 4 panel i think, and a 2 or 3 panel porch i cant remember. Then one at £60 had a 3 panel conny lean to thing. Windows were particularly bad also so went 30 on the windows 30 on the lean to.
I always restore now because back in the early days when i wasnt experienced i was pulled up on it by someone who got really shirty about the greys. I didnt know how to remove it all back then but i do now and have since restored all of our regulars to that standard bit by bit over time. If the frames are in good nick and glass is ok ish sometimes i dont charge extra for first cleans. But i wont just not restore for the sake of winning work.
End of the day its like cleaning your bath tiles, anyone can wash em over with a shower head and and a bit of mr muscle and say they’ve been cleaned. But when its bad you need to be getting that steam cleaner out to get real results.
With windows the attitude should be the same no?
Its not as hard to do as people think & doesnt take too long to do.
i think a lot of windys either just cant be bothered or are afraid of pricing the work out.
On large houses the cost could be significant enough to put people off but hey ho innit


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Click to expand...
With respect it involves going up ladder which I don't have to and I'm not prepared one accident almost put me in a wheelchair for the rest of my life.

And as mentioned in my previous post the vast majority of my new work is on newly built estates, so no restoration involved at all. But I still provide a top notch service to my clients ensuring a full a thorough first clean as needed based on my jobs I take on.

County Durham Lad

Bleach mixed with bicarbonate soda powder works wonders on tile grouting. ?

County Durham Lad

 
Yeah a lot of upstairs windows cant be accessed to restore anyway as theres almost always a bush/tree/extension in the way or uneven ground. Most restoration is at ground level. Also if theyve got nice stone masonry and paint jobs then i just say look its not worth putting a ladder up against it and chipping away at it for what you can barely notice from ground level. The sill and frame just above the sill is where the majority of grey builds up and if its from an upstairs window you often dont have an angle to see those. If i can get to them i will but yeah i wont risk damaging property or myself over it! At ground level where its obvious though its gotta be done really. In my eyes like


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