Spotting

Gents ,

Well I’ve completed my first few days wfp after 10 years trad, and I can say I officially hate car tyres !!!

But seriously I’m getting quite a bit of spotting , admittedly I’ve not paid the frames all that much attention in the past so they are first cleans practically.

I’ve had one call back which was genuine and I re did it.

I think I wasn’t quite rinsing enough. Although even now I’m rinsing a lot , just done my own windows and got small amount of spotting ...

So would a rinse bar be beneficial on the transition over to wfp

All advice welcome as at the moment this is really knocking my confidence in doing a good job

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I’ve been up and running just under a year without any problems.Fortunately I’ve never had any complaints of spotting.Are you regularly checking the quality of the water you are producing/purchasing as this would seem the most likeliest source of the problem.

cheers

dabber

Do each and everyone as first cleans I clean all the frames, glass and sills then start at the beginning and redo the glass rinse well, also double check your tds. 

Checked again last night when re filling ....TDS was 2


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Gasket said:

Checked again last night when re filling ....TDS was 2


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You using DI or RO mate?

Have heard that people clean with 010 but I can honestly say I have had spotting on my own clean windows with 003, I alway change resin as soon as it gets to 001

I’ve got new ro and Di from pure freedom, first installed it got zero TDS , literally put about 700 litres through it and it’s at 2 already ?


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Was it a 1 litre vessel they don't last 5 minutes get a 11litre vessel otherwise you will be changing them real frequent.

Gasket said:

I’ve got new ro and Di from pure freedom, first installed it got zero TDS , literally put about 700 litres through it and it’s at 2 already ?


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Thats not right mate. I ordered some Resin from Pure freedom the other day and its really wet in comparison to the Tulsion I normally buy so maybe they have a supply issue. I need to get in touch with them.

@spruce is our resident RO expert but I know enough to tell you that isn't right. Do you have an in line TDS? Before you call them for support check what TDS is leaving the RO against what TDS is leaving the resin.

Den said:

Was it a 1 litre vessel they don't last 5 minutes get a 11litre vessel otherwise you will be changing them real frequent.

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Even a one litre vessel would get through more than 700 litres after RO... Even in the hardest of hard water areas though??

Ok will do, will double check my figures tonight , it is the small vessel, don’t have the inline meters just the in hand metre


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Gasket said:

Ok will do, will double check my figures tonight , it is the small vessel, don’t have the inline meters just the in hand metre


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Thats not a problem, they work well, just easier to get the figures with an inline TDS and long term it will be better to keep an eye on it.

What type of RO did you go for?

You don't need a inline meter just disconnect from RO before DI and check td,

I can't give you exact figures on how long your resin should last and can't remember how long mine lasted but the 1litre vessel was **** and my resin was spent in no time.

My tap TDS is 253, after ro is 17, and 2 after di.
To be honest I’m thinking maybe more my technique ???


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Den said:

You don't need a inline meter just disconnect from RO before DI and check td,

I can't give you exact figures on how long your resin should last and can't remember how long mine lasted but the 1litre vessel was **** and my resin was spent in no time.

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Yeah I'm not tryna claim an in line TDS is the only way to check, just an easier way to check and long term its a very useful piece of kit

A TDS reading of 002 after 700L's is defo not right. Something is not quite adding up there especially if it's a new system from Pure Freedom. When you say you didn't pay much attention to the frames before this makes me think it could be that that's causing the spotting issues. It's so easy to glance over the frames with your brush when cleaning and if those frames aren't clean then that's gonna bring down the dirty water onto the glass.

When I first transitioned over to WFP from Trad I treated every customer like a first clean...even though when I done them trad I cleaned the frames thoroughly. I would recommend you do the same. Treat every clean as a first clean, go round all the frames, the vents I'll leave to you wether or not you want to go there (lol). It's gonna take you a while at first, but after a while you'll be pleased you did it cos I have a feeling unless you do this, you're gonna continue to get these problems. You really should of been cleaning those frames in the first place so a slap on the wrist to you for not! haha.

Gasket said:

My tap TDS is 253, after ro is 17, and 2 after di.
To be honest I’m thinking maybe more my technique ???

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Depending on what RO you have and other factors that may all be correct but the TDS after the DI should be 0, its not difficult for it to get 17 to 0. I could be completely wrong but if chaps are changing 11L resin canisters every few months with the same output you have then you shouldn't have started to creep on just 700 litres even if you only have a 1L canister

If you want to improve your technique @Green Pro Clean Ltd has some really helpful videos. Search him up on Youtube.

It is a worry changing over, especially with established customers, as dont want to let them down.  Its possibly the windows just need washed again due to the old soap in seals.  

Gasket said:

My tap TDS is 253, after ro is 17, and 2 after di.
To be honest I’m thinking maybe more my technique ???


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Your RO isn't producing effectively what is your water pressure? Example my 

Water pressure 65psi

tap tds Approx 320 after RO 009 the higher the TDS the quicker you will go thru Resin.

another thing is when I used a 1litre vessel it depleted the resin a lot quicker than X11 a 11l vessel I can't explain the science and don't know why? 

For argument sake and example only if using 11litre vessel and say that lasted 11 weeks doesn't not mean that a 1litre vessel would last 1 week, that's my experience anyway, if anyone with experience  using a 1litre would probably have noticed this.

TBH @Gasketa new r/o should be giving a better result than 17ppm after r/o with an input of 253.ppm. @Dengot there first and he is right.

This means your r/o is only removing 93% of the dissolved solids in the water. We were once told many years ago by a supplier in Scotland (Peter Fogwill) that when the pure water quality dropped to 94%, it was time to replace membranes.

If this is a brand new system then some have found it take a little time for the membranes to settle down. An efficiently operating membrane should remove 97 to 98% of the dissolved solids (minerals) in the water.

If your membranes were achieving 98% then the remaining tds your resin would need to polish off would be 5ppm, so your resin would last much longer.

According to the resin calculator

https://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/resin-calculator.html

25 liters of resin should polish off 41176 liters at 17ppm. So the resin isn't working as it should if its only done 700 liters. The target figure should be around 1650 liters per 1 liter of resin. Obviously these resin calculators aren't 100% accurate as they are influenced by many different factors, but they shouldn't be a million miles away from that figure.

There are also differing grades of resin. Poor grades aren't expected to last as long as premium grades. Unfortunately, according to suppliers they all carry the best resin.

We have found Tulsion MB115 works well for us, and we would only buy it from Daqua or Gardiners as you are assured of good quality. There has been some talk about the resin PureFreedom is supplying and reading between the lines, I wouldn't buy resin from them.

I don't have any issues with Pure Freedom and believe that in general they do make affordable systems which I have often recommended. Its just the resin they sell I have an issue with.

.

@Gasket Are you flushing your membrane for a good hour at least once a week? Andrew Bramley told me when I bought my van system it'll take a few flushes and a little time for the RO to start operating at it's full potential.

Suhrly said:

@Gasket Are you flushing your membrane for a good hour at least once a week? Andrew Bramley told me when I bought my van system it'll take a few flushes and a little time for the RO to start operating at it's full potential.

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Flushing is what I was going to say after reading all of the thread. 

At OP, what flow rate are you using? A slow flow and not enough rinsing could leave spots.

*side note, I was working on a new build estate yesterday and saw another windy cleaning a few houses up the road. I stopped and watched him work. It was painful to watch, he was scrubbing the bottom of the glass and then a bit of a rinse then moved up to the frames and a rinse then the top part of the glass, scrub scrub scrub scrub........and then he rinsed the feck out of it all!!! A total waste of time and water. 

Technique is the key to earning more and working smarter ?