Glass that will not come clean!

Hi, I've got a commercial job that I've been doing for about 5 years. Last month they said that the back upstairs windows never seem to be clean- especially in direct sunlight. I had a look, looked bad to be fair, very hazy, like a grey coating all over the glass. I said it's strange that it would look like that with regular cleaning and said it's probably in between the panes at which he took a cloth, opened the window and rubbed a bit on the outside, it is definitely on the outside, you could see where he'd rubbed it.

I apologized and went out and gave it a very thorough clean with degreaser.

Came in confident it would solve the issue but it was no better! I checked it myself with a microfiber, if you rub a bit dry nothing happens but if you wet it and rub hard it comes off and you can see the stripe where I'd rubbed it clean..

I said I'd think about a better way to clean it for next time.

Today I've been and done it using the scraper attachment with a scourer sponge secured to it. I wet the glass then scoured and rubbed the whole glass surface with the scourer with no nonsense degreaser. Then cleaned it thoroughly normally. Spent about 25 mins on 4 medium size panes of glass

I went in confident that they would be perfect..

No better! Or very marginally better but still very bad. You could still see just as clearly where I'd rubbed it from the inside with a cloth! 

I don't know what else to do, I said he may have to get the windows replaced.

Any ideas?

I like your idea, replace the panes.

A thought, I noticed that they said in between the panes "TEMPERED PLYGLASS" I was looking to see if they were self cleaning that had deteriorated. Could they have a plastic coating that is perishing? It's the side that gets the sun that is bad, maybe the UV light? Anyone heard of plyglass?

Thanks to Google

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plyglass

As I said in another thread, WFP ain't all it's cracked up to be. Tea boy might know how to clean it. He uses a specific way to clean.

hard water staining? Sometimes I wipe hard water stains with a soapy scourer. Looks like it’s come off, wfp rinsing starts to flow nicely and then it dries and goes back exactly how it was before. Or is there a extraction fan outlet blowing on it all the time and leaving it greasy, when you no nonsensed it, are you sure it was the same staining and you hadn’t just left a load of new detergent streaking/spotting?


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If it wipes clean then can you not trad it or does it just come back murky? If it does then sounds like the surface is deteriorating 

I think a good test would be to ask the staff to vacate the room temporarily, locate a house brick and throw it swiftly through the window.

If it breaks...…………….. then they need replacing.

spruce said:

Thanks to Google

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/plyglass

Click to expand...

Thanks, I came across that but looking at that it seems to be a generic term for double or triple glazed glass. The plyglass on the edge trim seems to be a trademark or brand name. Else where it says security glass on them. I think they may be laminated with plastic to resist smashing, and the plastic may be deteriorating. 

HollasSpecialistCleaningSystems said:

hard water staining? Sometimes I wipe hard water stains with a soapy scourer. Looks like it’s come off, wfp rinsing starts to flow nicely and then it dries and goes back exactly how it was before. Or is there a extraction fan outlet blowing on it all the time and leaving it greasy, when you no nonsensed it, are you sure it was the same staining and you hadn’t just left a load of new detergent streaking/spotting?


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Click to expand...

Yep definitely the same. Apart from the fact I brushed and rinsed it a ridiculous amount, the mark where I rubbed a bit clean was still there.

Part Timer said:

If it wipes clean then can you not trad it or does it just come back murky? If it does then sounds like the surface is deteriorating 

Click to expand...

I'd doesn't really wipe clean, it takes a lot of pressure to get it to look better.

I scrubbed it hard with a scourer- a lot more abrasive than an app.

I'm starting to think it doesn't need cleaning but polishing. Brasso could work maybe.

Skxawng said:

I'd doesn't really wipe clean, it takes a lot of pressure to get it to look better.

I scrubbed it hard with a scourer- a lot more abrasive than an app.

I'm starting to think it doesn't need cleaning but polishing. Brasso could work maybe.

Click to expand...

Have you tryed vikal lime scale remover and sponge ? Might do some good ?! 

Try Virsol put it in a spray bottle with hot water rub it in with the magic sponge then rinse and trad the window , if no better exp lane to the manager that the glass is beyond cleaning and needs replacing 

Pjj said:

Have you tryed vikal lime scale remover and sponge ? Might do some good ?! 

Click to expand...

Haven't tried it. It doesn't look like hard water staining though, it's pretty consistently dirty like a film or like the surface is etched. You can't see drops or spots like with hard water.

Just tell them it's a characteristic of the glass and to get used to it or replace. I can't really see much else you can do.

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Regardless of solving the mystery...... are you charging enough for all this ball ache?  

Sometimes more profit in walking away. 

Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

Regardless of solving the mystery...... are you charging enough for all this ball ache?  

Sometimes more profit in walking away. 

Click to expand...

Probably not to be honest. It's added an extra 20-25 mins each the last couple of cleans. I think I've cleaned it thoroughly enough to say there's nothing else I could do now. 

If they were my windows I'd have ago with a rubbing compound or metal polish as a last resort before replacing them but I don't really want to take that on for them because it would be impossible to quote and can't guarantee the results.

Skxawng said:

I'd doesn't really wipe clean, it takes a lot of pressure to get it to look better.

I scrubbed it hard with a scourer- a lot more abrasive than an app.

I'm starting to think it doesn't need cleaning but polishing. Brasso could work maybe.

Click to expand...

Saw a youtube video couple weeks ago when a yank was making faded glass on his headlights back to like new using I think a mix of baking soda and I think white vinegar, maybe something like that could be a alternative to brasso? just a thought from left field.

If it ain’t coming off wfp & traditional using chemicals as well, then you e done everything your side. Weird one though. Is there a flu near it letting out anything? 

RWCleaning said:

If it ain’t coming off wfp & traditional using chemicals as well, then you e done everything your side. Weird one though. Is there a flu near it letting out anything? 

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No, but there is a factory nearby (<200m) on that side that has a good number of tall chimneys. Maybe some corrosive gas may have etched it?? I've no idea.

I haven't been able to find confirmation but I suspect that "security tempered Plyglass" has a lamination of plastic on the outside that has deteriorated either from UV damage or atmospheric chemicals.

Nobody seems to have heard of it though and Google isn't helping.

mike007 said:

Saw a youtube video couple weeks ago when a yank was making faded glass on his headlights back to like new using I think a mix of baking soda and I think white vinegar, maybe something like that could be a alternative to brasso? just a thought from left field.

Click to expand...

The last MOT my headlights failed on the glass surface deteriorated.

Half an hour of brasso and lots of elbow grease and they were as good as new. I'd hate to attempt that on large panes of glass though!

Would be very curious to see some pics of this. Seems like you've tried almost everything, I hope they understand the effort you have went through.

I've had these symptoms you've described on a customers kitchen window. at first. I was convinced that I could sort it. Ha ha, I've since used UBIK, Magic Sponge, Vikal hard water stain remover. Bronze wool, scrapers and vinegar with scourers etc etc and at first it looks like its gone but then when it dries, it goes back to being cloudy. Found out that the customer had his wall re rendered some time ago and its now suspected that lime or something similar that the builders used when rendering has got onto the glass and somehow bonded or burned into it. I'm of the opinion that the only way to return the glass to its best is to polish it out but im not doing that. (Or replace it) He tells me that the glass was replaced a month or so after the rendering was done for the same reason. I've kept going at it for many months, trying everything that I knew because I didnt want it to beat me but in the end, i had to be grudgingly accept that I couldn't sort it. Really got my goat at the time. I still clean it to this day and its exactly the same. Some you win and some .......