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Iron Giant

Ro production nightmare

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spruce
19 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:


Thanks @spruce the issue with the air is on and off if I move the membranes you can hear a spluttering with the pump off then it settles but once I have given time for air to be pushed through without the pump running the issue continues and the pump is very noisy. 

But last night I went to Screwfix and bought a mains water pressure gauge and my tap pressure reading was 65psi, So I am now assuming that i damaged the membranes last week and the issue with the pump could be down the membranes being damaged 

There shouldn't be air in the line as it should have bleed through very quickly. If its not, then the pump is sucking air in somewhere. It will be at a join somewhere before the pump.

 

I've just had a response back from my mate and he says he doesn't experience a vibration like you are reporting. He says the pump works really well and he has had it a good 5 years. He has his connected between the prefilters and the membranes the same as you have.

 

So you might have to get back to PF and report the issue. I don't know exactly how that pump works but I'm pretty certain it will be a diaphram pump based on a similar design to our wfp pumps on the van. I think they also have a pressure relief valve inside the head to maintain maximum pressure and bleed an excess back into the pump inlet. So the pump will run continously. If the water being pump is bleeding away too fast, such as through the waste restrictor, then you could get a water hammer which causes that vibration. 

 

I've noticed a similar pumping vibration when my son uses his backpack, although not 'vibrating like mad'. He likes his flow painfully slow so very little pressure builds up in his pole hose. When I use it I turn up the flow and the pumping vibration is much less.

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant

@spruce I spoke to PF yesterday and they advised what i had done which was to run the ro without pump to allow any air through when the spluttering stopped I turned the pump on and it started to vibrate straight away. All connections are tight and JG fittings fully pushed in. 

But if my tap pressure was  65psi  at 7 pm last night then surely I have enough tap pressure to produce pure at the expected production rate, Were as currently the pure is a trickle and has being all last night into this morning  and the waste flow is 2-3 times fast so thinking i need to order new membranes from @doug atkinson this morning


And the promised 3 metres of JG tubing never came with my booster pump from PF 

Edited by Iron Giant

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spruce

65 psi was much higher than we had in our 450gpd days and we run that without a booster pump. At 250ppm tap water tds the r/o rejection rate was 4ppm. We had 40psi w/p @Iron Giant

 

The reason why my mate fitted a booster pump is that he has a 300gpd and it wasn't producing enough water for his daily requirements, especially when he had a second cleaner working with him.

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant
65 psi was much higher than we had in our 450gpd days and we run that without a booster pump. At 250ppm tap water tds the r/o rejection rate was 4ppm. We had 40psi w/p [mention=3115]Iron Giant[/mention]
 
The reason why my mate fitted a booster pump is that he has a 300gpd and it wasn't producing enough water for his daily requirements, especially when he had a second cleaner working with him.
Tap tds is 79 so it's got too be the membranes?????

County Durham Lad

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doug atkinson

Have had a look at the pump that Pure Freedom advertise and do not see any specification in their listing. The Aquatec 8800 series are three different model types. Which one they sell I cannot tell.

 

It is also claimed it is suitable for 200/300/450 R/O system. For pressure yes they are correct but for output far off the mark.

 

The key is looking at the specification. If this was the top model then the best you will get of pure is 400 ml per minute approx..

 

If you ticked all the boxes flow and pressure then the 450 gpd is capable of 1.1 litres a minute so to me it does look like it is not suitable for 450 gpd system.

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Iron Giant
Have had a look at the pump that Pure Freedom advertise and do not see any specification in their listing. The Aquatec 8800 series are three different model types. Which one they sell I cannot tell.
 
It is also claimed it is suitable for 200/300/450 R/O system. For pressure yes they are correct but for output far off the mark.
 
The key is looking at the specification. If this was the top model then the best you will get of pure is 400 ml per minute approx..
 
If you ticked all the boxes flow and pressure then the 450 gpd is capable of 1.1 litres a minute so to me it does look like it is not suitable for 450 gpd system.
Not sure if this will help as numbers are affected. I did all that you recommended when we spoke on the phone today and production of pure is still now down to the barely a trickle with or without the booster pump the flow of produces pure doesn't improve at all all. 20180710_174753.jpg

County Durham Lad

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doug atkinson

That pump is not suitable

 

I have an answer from the tech team and having it on flush for such a long time will foul up the membranes hence slow production.

 

The last membrane that goes into the flow restrictor disconnect the blue tube from the T- Piece and if you can measure how long it takes to do say 400 ml and the ppm. Then soak the membrane in white vinegar must be covered for about an hour then insert back and flush for 10 mins. Then repeat the readings again and hopefully this will have unclogged it.

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Iron Giant
22 hours ago, doug atkinson said:

That pump is not suitable

 

I have an answer from the tech team and having it on flush for such a long time will foul up the membranes hence slow production.

 

The last membrane that goes into the flow restrictor disconnect the blue tube from the T- Piece and if you can measure how long it takes to do say 400 ml and the ppm. Then soak the membrane in white vinegar must be covered for about an hour then insert back and flush for 10 mins. Then repeat the readings again and hopefully this will have unclogged it.



Thanks @doug atkinson I assume i am stuck with the pump now ☹️, As for the white vinegar I am guessing they didn't mean white malt vinegar but the other type which is used for cleaning etc

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Iron Giant

So changed membranes for brand new ones and I certain I can have connected everything correctly as I do them one by one.

Pure production is still virtually non existent just a tiny trickle, tap tds is 56ppm and water pressure on 60 psi when I flush the ro the pure reading is 5ppm but on the production its 23ppm [emoji20] 20180715_095218.jpg20180715_095230.jpg20180715_095246.jpg

County Durham Lad

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Iron Giant

Flow from the pre filters is good but when it passes through No1 membrane the output from the membrane is just dripping out and the tds is 11ppm and continues to rise as it goes through each membrane. [emoji17]

I don't have any new pre-filters to change the ones I have and the booster pump when I re-connected it does increase the pure production flow but the tds doesn't drop but all seems to go pete tong with the membranes 



County Durham Lad
 

Edited by Iron Giant

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doug atkinson

Have you got the pump connected on the waste tube?

 

Should be between last filter and first membrane.

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Iron Giant
Have you got the pump connected on the waste tube?
 
Should be between last filter and first membrane.
Yes after pre filters into the pump then into the first membrane

County Durham Lad

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doug atkinson

Your third picture it does not look connected that way nothing going to the membrane but connected to the waste pipe (red),

 

If you have done that you could have damaged the flow restrictor

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Iron Giant

At the time I took that photo I didn't have the pump connected at all and the red pipe coming out of the pump was just spare hose I had to hand and in the pic it does look like that but the red pipe out of no3 membrane is going directly to the flow restrictor as normal

County Durham Lad

At the time I took that photo I didn't have the pump connected at all and the red pipe coming out of the pump was just spare hose I had to hand and in the pic it does look like that but the red pipe out of no3 membrane is going directly to the flow restrictor as normal

County Durham Lad


Hey presto 20180715_171916.jpg

County Durham Lad

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Iron Giant

I think I will be on the phone first thing in the morning to order a brand new RO as it has got me totally beat down despite all the help from multiple people and @THL4KEL whose has been a diamond lending me a Di vessel for the second time in the last week which will have seen me completing 4 days work by the end of Tuesday otherwise I would have lost 4 days work

County Durham Lad
 

Edited by Iron Giant

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doug atkinson

Take your pre-filters out and run the system. Don't think that has been tried it could be a filter that is a problem.

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Iron Giant
Take your pre-filters out and run the system. Don't think that has been tried it could be a filter that is a problem.
Thanks very much Doug, not tried that one yet [emoji106][emoji38]

County Durham Lad

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Iron Giant

Flowing like a river pure reading is 6ppm which is to be expected I guess with no pre filters. Thanks Doug your a legend

County Durham Lad

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Iron Giant

I will organise a order for pre filters and leave the ro off until pre filters are replaced on Tuesday

County Durham Lad

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