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Best Water Fed Pole brand to use?



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Gordonuk

Hi everyone,

 

I run a Property Services company and we are thinking about employing someone to do the window cleaning services which we had originally subbed out to another company. What I would like to know is can anyone recommend the best Water Fed Pole brand to buy or lease?

 

Recommendations for Water Fed Pole Systems on their own? Or with a van would be welcome.

 

Also what should I expect to pay for one of these systems on their own? And with a van already installed?

 

We hope to do 10 residential properties per day using the Water Fed Pole system and so are looking for a Hot Water System with a tank of between 400 to 500 Litres. And a filter system of course too.

 

Any recommendations and examples of your personal experiences would be great.

 

Many thanks.

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Cookie

The main players are:

 

Grippatank  - Not really heard any bad reviews

Ionics - Good quality but very expensive (Pure2o range may be worth considering)

Pure Freedom - Pretty good - probably cheaper than the above two

Xline - Good quality I believe but you must like the colour orange!

 

One consideration is how close you are to them in case you need to return to get problems fixed. Also 'phone around and ask for a quote ....

 

Mine is a DIY setup (system parts mainly from Pure Freedom and poles from Gardiner) and does the same job as all the above but cost £2k to £3k less!

 

 

Edited by Cookie
x

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Part Timer

When you say "10 residential properties" are these standard 2, 3, 4 bed houses or HMO's, if the first then 10 homes isn't many and you wouldn't need a tank that size. Do you know if you're hard or soft water as this will affect what you need. Being in the business and doing a lot of work with a property maintenance company can you not find a good sole trader that could give you good prices for a substantial contract, 50 houses a week?

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Gordonuk
2 hours ago, Cookie said:

The main players are:

 

Grippatank  - Not really heard any bad reviews

Ionics - Good quality but very expensive (Pure2o range may be worth considering)

Pure Freedom - Pretty good - probably cheaper than the above two

Xline - Good quality I believe but you must like the colour orange!

 

One consideration is how close you are to them in case you need to return to get problems fixed. Also 'phone around and ask for a quote ....

 

Mine is a DIY setup (system parts mainly from Pure Freedom and poles from Gardiner) and does the same job as all the above but cost £2k to £3k less!

 

 

Hi Cookie,

 

Thanks for your reply. I am in London and I am not sure where these companies are based but I will definitely look at all the companies you mentioned. With regards to the DIY set up who that be suitable for me? And how easy is it all to put together for a novice? Or is it possible to hire someone to put a DIY system together if you purchase the parts?

 

Also I mentioned in my original post we hope to do 10 residential properties 3/4 bedroom houses in your experience using the Water Fed Pole system how many properties of this size could you hope to do in one day say working 8 hours?

 

Many thanks

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Gordonuk
1 hour ago, Part Timer said:

When you say "10 residential properties" are these standard 2, 3, 4 bed houses or HMO's, if the first then 10 homes isn't many and you wouldn't need a tank that size. Do you know if you're hard or soft water as this will affect what you need. Being in the business and doing a lot of work with a property maintenance company can you not find a good sole trader that could give you good prices for a substantial contract, 50 houses a week?

Hi Part Timer,

 

Thanks for your reply. Yes these would be average 3/4 bedroom houses. Does this not sound like a lot to do per day? With the Water Fed Pole system what would be a reasonable amount of properties to do in an 8 hour day?

 

And I am in north London but I am not sure if we are in a hard water or soft water area. Is this important? And why?

 

And I would prefer to hire a window cleaner myself and get all the equipment so that I can grow this side of the business. We were sub-contracting it out before.

 

Many thanks,

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P4dstar

I think @Part Timer has put it into perspective there. 50 houses a week (if it just houses), it would take you a long time to make the money back you would need to put into this. The only feasible way would be to make a DIY system if there isn't too much red tape stopping you. A decent Ionics system cost a mate of mine 10K, installed with poles etc etc.... Also I think that included the cost of his van although I never asked so can't be sure.

 

Then you have to factor in the training side of it, the whole point is to have clean windows at the end of it. It isn't a case of turning up and just whacking the pole over a few windows and leaving, there is a technique to learn otherwise you may as well just spray the windows with a hose and use a car wash brush. I expect a sole trader somewhere would pick up a contract with 50 houses a week for somewhere near what it costs you to pay the work force and diesel.

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Gordonuk
5 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

I think @Part Timer has put it into perspective there. 50 houses a week (if it just houses), it would take you a long time to make the money back you would need to put into this. The only feasible way would be to make a DIY system if there isn't too much red tape stopping you. A decent Ionics system cost a mate of mine 10K, installed with poles etc etc.... Also I think that included the cost of his van although I never asked so can't be sure.

 

Then you have to factor in the training side of it, the whole point is to have clean windows at the end of it. It isn't a case of turning up and just whacking the pole over a few windows and leaving, there is a technique to learn otherwise you may as well just spray the windows with a hose and use a car wash brush. I expect a sole trader somewhere would pick up a contract with 50 houses a week for somewhere near what it costs you to pay the work force and diesel.

Hi P4dstar,

 

Thanks for your informative reply.

 

If I did purchase a decent Water Fed Pole system how many houses per day would be a reasonable target? I was just being conservative with the 10 houses per day. I have read another post where a window cleaner said that they do 30 houses a day? So what do you think would be a reasonable target for us? How many properties? I would like to have some idea of what we should aim for.

 

With regards to the DIY system this is definitely something I would be interested in as I hear it cuts down the cost considerably. What do you mean if there isnt too much red tape stopping me?

 

And with regards to training. Some of the companies who sell the Water Fed Pole system actually offer training as well. So we were planning to hire someone to get them trained up.

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RWCleaning

As stated- a professional one is going to cost you a lot. You’ll get small change out of £9K/£10k with a 500L hot water system with the inbuilt R.O filters etc. Then it’s the price of the actual van. 

 

I built my own d.i.y system, 500L system (cold water) but GrippaTank hose & Gardiner pumps & poles (the best poles in mine and many’s opinion) altogether about £1000. Then I have a separate filter system in my garden which cost me £400.00.

 

i believe @GrippaTANK offer ready made vans. @xline-systems are on here too. Both look really really smart. If you want to go down the expensive but super quality looking systems ‘dem ur boys’. Look them up on YouTube. Depends what budget you have. 

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RWCleaning

I recently was given a courtesy van from my insurance as I had a ambulance smash into me. It had a Ionics 600L self purifying system, with a ionic diesel ‘hot box’ to make hot water.

What an incredible bit of kit. As said before pretty expensive but they know they’re stuff. I had the Ionics ‘vitan’ system. Ah beautiful!!

 

i emailed them on the weekend to ask Just how much their ‘diesel hotbox’ was, as I would like hot water one day. £3,300+Vat (includes them fitting it) you could fit your own d.i.y tank & add a hot box or something for hot water. That’s what I would like one day.

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P4dstar
52 minutes ago, Gordonuk said:

Hi P4dstar,

 

Thanks for your informative reply.

 

If I did purchase a decent Water Fed Pole system how many houses per day would be a reasonable target? I was just being conservative with the 10 houses per day. I have read another post where a window cleaner said that they do 30 houses a day? So what do you think would be a reasonable target for us? How many properties? I would like to have some idea of what we should aim for.

 

With regards to the DIY system this is definitely something I would be interested in as I hear it cuts down the cost considerably. What do you mean if there isnt too much red tape stopping me?

 

And with regards to training. Some of the companies who sell the Water Fed Pole system actually offer training as well. So we were planning to hire someone to get them trained up.

Apologies, I read the original post as if you were in charge of property maintenance for a company, that’s what I was referring when I said about red tape 🤦‍♂️

 

If your intention is to add window cleaning to your companies services that’s a little different. As the chaps have said, very little change out of £10k with the big lads but you can go somewhere in the middle. Personally I would look at a pre built mass produced system, something like this;

 

https://www.windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/compact-di-ideal-start-up-425.html

 

A diy system on the other hand will reduce costs and allow you to change parts quickly when there is an issue.

 

I wouldn’t use the pole they give long term, would need to be a Gardiner pole for me. I personally don’t believe the hot water system is all it’s cracked up to be, some swear by it but it’s just an added expense in my eyes.

 

Given that it’s your own company I wouldn’t waste money on training from a company. Get the system set up and watch some you’re videos, go and do some friends and family for free until you’re happy with the results you’re getting. If possible do the window cleaning yourself at first and train others up when you’re happy you’ve mastered it. If needs be you could go for training yourself and practice until you’re ready to train the others, this way you won’t need to keep paying for training when you take on someone new.

 

The amount of work depends on a lot of things. Where I am is mainly rural so doing 10-15 in a day is cool and pays well, in Gloucester on the other hand houses are closer together, days when I work over there I can do 20 houses in a day. It comes down to the size of the house, how many men you have working the van, travel time between properties, if they have a conservatory etc etc... there is no real target for this in my eyes, I just target myself on what I earn.

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Skxawng

Time wise, there are a lot of factors to consider, but you won't be far off saying 15mins for a regular maintenance clean on a 3/4 bed detached and allowing 30mins for the first clean. How many you can do a day depends on how much time you spend travelling between houses. Hot water is nice but not really necessary.

Edited by Skxawng

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Green Pro Clean Ltd

Avoid X-Line like the plague!  One of the worst cusromer service / aftercare in the industry.   They have a rep for being your best friend whilst your spending thousands ant once spent if you got issues just try to get them on the phone. Not going to happen. 

 

Grippa and Ionics both have solid reputations as does The Cleaning Warehouse in Wolverhampton. They will build you a system for a quater the price of the other two. 

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GrippaTANK

Good Morning.

 

Thank you for the recommendations.

 

We would be very happy to assist @Gordonuk - please get in touch with the UK sales team via enquiries@grippatank.co.uk

 

All of our system installations include free training, we can offer the full package including a vehicle, monthly payments, or we can just “retro” fit into your existing system.

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Part Timer
8 hours ago, Gordonuk said:

Hi Part Timer,

 

Thanks for your reply. Yes these would be average 3/4 bedroom houses. Does this not sound like a lot to do per day? With the Water Fed Pole system what would be a reasonable amount of properties to do in an 8 hour day?

 

And I am in north London but I am not sure if we are in a hard water or soft water area. Is this important? And why?

 

And I would prefer to hire a window cleaner myself and get all the equipment so that I can grow this side of the business. We were sub-contracting it out before.

 

Many thanks,

I initially read it as you ran a property management company. How many houses comes to a simple equation of sizes and distance between. A 4 bed large Victorian house with awkward sash windows would take a good 30 minutes to do from pulling up to pulling away. If you then have a 20 minutes drive then 10 a day would be a reasonable target. 

If you have a separate factory unit with room to build a static R/O and a separate tank then this is far cheaper, easier and quicker to run than a van system. 

If you're in a soft water area you won't need an R/O. Buy a TDS meter from a reputable source, find out and go from there. 

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Gordonuk
9 hours ago, RWCleaning said:

As stated- a professional one is going to cost you a lot. You’ll get small change out of £9K/£10k with a 500L hot water system with the inbuilt R.O filters etc. Then it’s the price of the actual van. 

 

I built my own d.i.y system, 500L system (cold water) but GrippaTank hose & Gardiner pumps & poles (the best poles in mine and many’s opinion) altogether about £1000. Then I have a separate filter system in my garden which cost me £400.00.

 

i believe @GrippaTANK offer ready made vans. @xline-systems are on here too. Both look really really smart. If you want to go down the expensive but super quality looking systems ‘dem ur boys’. Look them up on YouTube. Depends what budget you have. 

Hi RWCleaning,

 

The DIY route definitely looks the best way to go. Purchasing a van and a top of the range system would be very expensive.

 

Could you give me some more details about the 500 L system you built? If possible I would like to buy your equipment. What 500 L system was it? And could you send me a list of everything you purchased to build your DIY kit for £1,000?

 

You are obviously very happy with all the equipment right? How have you found it working with it and cleaning the windows? Do you still get good results?

 

Many thanks.

2 hours ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

Avoid X-Line like the plague!  One of the worst cusromer service / aftercare in the industry.   They have a rep for being your best friend whilst your spending thousands ant once spent if you got issues just try to get them on the phone. Not going to happen. 

 

Grippa and Ionics both have solid reputations as does The Cleaning Warehouse in Wolverhampton. They will build you a system for a quater the price of the other two. 

Thanks for the advice Green Pro Clean Ltd! Its always great to hear other peoples experience especially as a newbie. I will look at the companies you recommended.

 

Many thanks.

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RWCleaning
Just now, Gordonuk said:

Hi RWCleaning,

 

The DIY route definitely looks the best way to go. Purchasing a van and a top of the range system would be very expensive.

 

Could you give me some more details about the 500 L system you built? If possible I would like to buy your equipment. What 500 L system was it? And could you send me a list of everything you purchased to build your DIY kit for £1,000?

 

You are obviously very happy with all the equipment right? How have you found it working with it and cleaning the windows? Do you still get good results?

 

Many thanks.

Ok I’ll do it later no problem, Yep very happy. Looks semi smart, but is bolted through the van floor, and has survived a couple of emergency breaks & a accident a few weeks ago. 500L is enough for one man in a average 7-8 day. I’ll send a pic in the minute then get a list to you. 

 

And yeh cleaning the actual windows is no difference at all compared to other ‘professional’ systems. It’s worth spending abit of money of Gardiner poles, either the Slx range or the extreme range, I have one of each.

 

Cheers, 

 

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Gordonuk
8 hours ago, Skxawng said:

Time wise, there are a lot of factors to consider, but you won't be far off saying 15mins for a regular maintenance clean on a 3/4 bed detached and allowing 30mins for the first clean. How many you can do a day depends on how much time you spend travelling between houses. Hot water is nice but not really necessary.

Hi Skxawng,

 

Thanks for your reply. I have read a lot about the benefits of a Hot Water system. Some window cleaners swear by it while others say that its not important. Some say its better to have a Hot Water system during the winter time as it gives you a better clean. Is this true? How have you found cleaning windows during the winter time using a cold water system? And I have also read that some window cleaners say that using a Hot Water system also helps you remove dried on bird poo on the windows as well.

 

Many thanks.

1 minute ago, RWCleaning said:

Ok I’ll do it later no problem, Yep very happy. Looks semi smart, but is bolted through the van floor, and has survived a couple of emergency breaks & a accident a few weeks ago. 500L is enough for one man in a average 7-8 day. I’ll send a pic in the minute then get a list to you. 

 

And yeh cleaning the actual windows is no difference at all compared to other ‘professional’ systems. It’s worth spending abit of money of Gardiner poles, either the Slx range or the extreme range, I have one of each.

 

Cheers, 

 

Thanks very much for all your help with this RWCleaning. I look forward to receiving your message later with all the info. Cheers.

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RWCleaning

Ok so in this van I have:

 

•500L upright wydale baffled tank, and retaining steel frame.

 

• Gardiner Pole systems- Pump and pump controller (you can see them on the left and right, but you only need one of each if only one person will be working)

 

•GrippaTank hose metal hose reel & GrippaTank 100m micro bore hose.

 

•Gardiner poles- I have a 10ft clx. 18ft extreme & 25Slx.

 

Then under my passenger seat I have a decent leisure battery which runs off a split relay to power everything.

 

£30ish worth of wiring & electrical bits and bobs & john guest pipes & elbows to link everything up.

 

Then it’s anything extra you might need, step ladder? Gardiner back pack for awkward terrace house? Traditional window cleaning stuff for internal cleans? Cleaning chemical for very dirty gutters & fascias? A variety of brush heads? 

 

Think all in all, everything in the van, including some of the extras above comes to £1200? No problems after 2 & bit years. You CAN do it for cheaper, but the GrippaTank hose never ever seems to kink, and Gardiner make the best poles in my position. I bought everything new apart from the hose reel which was about 3 months old from my old boss. 

E7C03660-8E55-4AEF-A900-9818EED3DBF6.jpeg

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Skxawng
24 minutes ago, Gordonuk said:

Hi Skxawng,

 

Thanks for your reply. I have read a lot about the benefits of a Hot Water system. Some window cleaners swear by it while others say that its not important. Some say its better to have a Hot Water system during the winter time as it gives you a better clean. Is this true? How have you found cleaning windows during the winter time using a cold water system? And I have also read that some window cleaners say that using a Hot Water system also helps you remove dried on bird poo on the windows as well.

Take my comments with a pinch of salt as I haven't used a hot water system. 

During normal cleans cold water cleans fine, there is no higher level of clean. Clean is clean. It won't be cleaner with hot water. Bird muck doesn't take much shifting either way. 

Where it would be useful is first cleans. So it depends on how much of your work will be initial cleans. Hot water is definitely a more aggressive cleaner and will get rid of built up dirt and grime easier. But you can get them clean without. 

May be helpful a few days a year during extreme cold but the main problem is the tank/pipes/pumps freezing over at night, not while working.

So it's not a necessity. It's a luxury. I'd like it fitted to mine but it's low on the list of priorities at the moment.

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RWCleaning

Yeh I agree with the hot water, I’ve some impressive before and afters on some absolutely filthy things. But hot water is quicker on dirty things. Regular windows cleans most people agree there’s no real difference in the finish or time. But yes good for winter and the dirtier something is the less strenuous it is. 

 

Id like to get a diesel hot water system in the next few years but there’re expensive 

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Part Timer
4 hours ago, Gordonuk said:

You are obviously very happy with all the equipment right? How have you found it working with it and cleaning the windows? Do you still get good results?

As long as your water is below 5ppm and the person doing the job does it properly the only difference to expensive equipment and cheap equipment is reliability and ease of use. The quality of the job shouldn't be any different assuming the equipment used is fit for purpose.

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Green Pro Clean Ltd
11 hours ago, RWCleaning said:

Ok so in this van I have:

 

•500L upright wydale baffled tank, and retaining steel frame.

 

• Gardiner Pole systems- Pump and pump controller (you can see them on the left and right, but you only need one of each if only one person will be working)

 

•GrippaTank hose metal hose reel & GrippaTank 100m micro bore hose.

 

•Gardiner poles- I have a 10ft clx. 18ft extreme & 25Slx.

 

Then under my passenger seat I have a decent leisure battery which runs off a split relay to power everything.

 

£30ish worth of wiring & electrical bits and bobs & john guest pipes & elbows to link everything up.

 

Then it’s anything extra you might need, step ladder? Gardiner back pack for awkward terrace house? Traditional window cleaning stuff for internal cleans? Cleaning chemical for very dirty gutters & fascias? A variety of brush heads? 

 

Think all in all, everything in the van, including some of the extras above comes to £1200? No problems after 2 & bit years. You CAN do it for cheaper, but the GrippaTank hose never ever seems to kink, and Gardiner make the best poles in my position. I bought everything new apart from the hose reel which was about 3 months old from my old boss. 

E7C03660-8E55-4AEF-A900-9818EED3DBF6.jpeg

No mention of a DI unit even though the OP is in London so will need a pro RO as well so add another £500

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RWCleaning
Just now, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

No mention of a DI unit even though the OP is in London so will need a pro RO as well so add another £500

Good point. Yes sorry i completely forgot about that. As I have a separate R.O & d.i system in my garden. 

 

R.O+d.i systems can be anything from £200-£2000 it seems. You’ll need to find out your TDS water reading out of the mains and ideally your psi out of the mains taps you’ll be using. 

 

 

 

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Gordonuk
14 hours ago, Part Timer said:

I initially read it as you ran a property management company. How many houses comes to a simple equation of sizes and distance between. A 4 bed large Victorian house with awkward sash windows would take a good 30 minutes to do from pulling up to pulling away. If you then have a 20 minutes drive then 10 a day would be a reasonable target. 

If you have a separate factory unit with room to build a static R/O and a separate tank then this is far cheaper, easier and quicker to run than a van system. 

If you're in a soft water area you won't need an R/O. Buy a TDS meter from a reputable source, find out and go from there. 

Thanks for all the advice Part Timer.

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Gordonuk
51 minutes ago, RWCleaning said:

Good point. Yes sorry i completely forgot about that. As I have a separate R.O & d.i system in my garden. 

 

R.O+d.i systems can be anything from £200-£2000 it seems. You’ll need to find out your TDS water reading out of the mains and ideally your psi out of the mains taps you’ll be using. 

 

 

 

We have been recommended to use a RO system as we were told that once its set up its relatively cheap to run compared to the DI system. So thats the sort of DIY system we would like to build. One more thing we do not have the space to store the Van and equipment so the window cleaner will be taking the van home with them and we are not sure if he will have room for a tank or even a garden to house the external tank. I have read that it can take up to 8-10 hours to fill up the 500 Litre tank each night. Is this true? And is there anyway around this?

 

Also since I am a completely newbie with regards to Water Fed Pole systems once we have bought all the individual items is it possible to hire someone to put the whole thing together and wire it up and attach it properly to the van?

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