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WFP rotting window frames

Rob Binnie

New member
Messages
10
Location
Brighton
Hi, been working on my own for a few months now, had my first cancellation. 

I asked the customer if everything was ok with the first clean, they said it was very good, but we're worried about the water rotting the frames. 

They have painted wooden sash windows which looked sound to me.

Their last window cleaner retired so I'd assume he was traditional and they're not used to WFP? As it was a first clean I did use more water than usual to bring the frames upto a good standard. 

Some of their neighbours frames, which I also cleaned, were in a worse state. I'd hate for them to start chatting and loose all the work in the road because of this. Can WFP rot frames, is this an actual thing? 

Has anyone experienced this response before? They're a nice old couple, is it worth trying to educate them on the pros of WFP vs traditional?

Many thanks, 

Rob. 

 
Hi, been working on my own for a few months now, had my first cancellation. 
 
I asked the customer if everything was ok with the first clean, they said it was very good, but we're worried about the water rotting the frames. 
 
They have painted wooden sash windows which looked sound to me.
 
Their last window cleaner retired so I'd assume he was traditional and they're not used to WFP? As it was a first clean I did use more water than usual to bring the frames upto a good standard. 
 
Some of their neighbours frames, which I also cleaned, were in a worse state. I'd hate for them to start chatting and loose all the work in the road because of this. Can WFP rot frames, is this an actual thing? 
 
Has anyone experienced this response before? They're a nice old couple, is it worth trying to educate them on the pros of WFP vs traditional?
 
Many thanks, 
Rob. 
Just ask them what they do when it rains!!
Then explain that your water is as pure as rain water that falls from the sky.
It's all about education with some customers. [emoji943][emoji943][emoji943][emoji16][emoji106]

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Hi Rob , it could be they’re using this an excuse. Some customers will never adapt to something alien to them , no matter how much you try explaining. I’ve lost countless customers over the 15 years since changing to WFP 

 
I ditched a £60 customer not long ago because her decorators had ‘advised’ her I should use the cloth method because it damages and rots the frames. My lengthy but diplomatic response was I would no longer be cleaning the windows and to send me the decorators number so I can educate them in the WFP method. In the past it’s given me alarm bells when they mention it so I just try to replace them before the inevitable.


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Thanks for all the replies.

I've sent a text to the customer explaining in simple terms that a lot less water is used on repeat cleans and also explained how pure water is similar to the rain.

Will see what happens.

Many thanks,
Rob.

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Personally, I would forget that one and move on. Just smile every time you pass the house whilst you wonder if they found a trad cleaner, or if the trad cleaner they did find moved over to wfp. I've seen that happen a few times.

 
Yes it does quicken the rot in wooden frames and astragals because I have seen it. So does acid rain but not as quickly. I believe its because the water is getting pushed into the joint between the bead and glass. The moment the paint gives way the water is continually getting trapped each month and the wood quickly rots. I wouldn't have believed it, till I had to repair a rotting astragal on a renovated property.

 
I have a friend that is a painter and I asked her about this topic a few months ago. She said that the wind/rain/salt (if near the sea) rots the frames much faster than the pure water we use. What would rot the frames much faster, would be not getting them cleaned in the first place! She also explains that good painter will offer a guarantee in their work (6 years in her case) as the gloss they use is ‘all weather protected’.

 
Yes it does quicken the rot in wooden frames and astragals because I have seen it. So does acid rain but not as quickly. I believe its because the water is getting pushed into the joint between the bead and glass. The moment the paint gives way the water is continually getting trapped each month and the wood quickly rots. I wouldn't have believed it, till I had to repair a rotting astragal on a renovated property.


I had a customer dump us in the early days because I was destroying her wooden conservatory. Her conservatory was rotten anyway and yes, I was washing some of the rot out. Funnily enough, she got a trad cleaner and had the conservatory wood replaced. She asked me back but I refused the job.

Funny how no one thinks of the long term effects of all that soapy water finding its way between the frame and the glass when a trad cleaner cleans it.

 
I have a friend that is a painter and I asked her about this topic a few months ago. She said that the wind/rain/salt (if near the sea) rots the frames much faster than the pure water we use. What would rot the frames much faster, would be not getting them cleaned in the first place! She also explains that good painter will offer a guarantee in their work (6 years in her case) as the gloss they use is ‘all weather protected’.
A friend of mine is a decorator and also repairs rotten wooden frames, there is one property that he has just renewed, or repaired, virtually every window frame on the third floor. When the Director of the property management company asked why only the top floor had rotted he said the only explanation he could give was that the windows on the top floor were never washed. 

 
I tend to avoid houses with rotten wooden frames or flaky paint as they’re well in excess of 100 years old. most of these houses in my area were built in the late 19th century -pre-ww1 & have single panes, often with cracks in the glass. Most of the frames are the originals and even after having been pained numerous times, the day of necessary replacement has come long ago. So many houses are pvc now, or wood of a reasonable standard, or aluminium, that theres no real need to be taking these kind of houses on as its a small part of the market that can cause a headache. Admittedly we have a number of these houses on our rounds that are long standing customers, but i never feel terrific when cleaning them and often feel i shouldn’t be, so actively avoid newbies now. The rain will have caused most of the rot as well as leaving it a bit too long between paint jobs. It doesn’t take much force at all to take a chunk out of these frames so...you know.. bit of a PITA situation really


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I ditched a £60 customer not long ago because her decorators had ‘advised’ her I should use the cloth method because it damages and rots the frames. My lengthy but diplomatic response was I would no longer be cleaning the windows and to send me the decorators number so I can educate them in the WFP method. In the past it’s given me alarm bells when they mention it so I just try to replace them before the inevitable.


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I have had similar situation with a few customers over the years just explain how it works and ask what happens when it rains ? When cleaning a window you are only using a very small amount of water 99% of it will run off as that’s how gravity works , a builder told one customer that it was the window cleaner using a pressurewasher to clean the windows that caused a damp problem in the roof , what a load of rubbish , when the customer asked me about it I laughed put up a ladder and had a look there was 3 slates missing on the roof she got them replaced and suprise suprise the problem disappeared and Ime still cleaning her windows 10 years later ?????

 
 
 
I have had similar situation with a few customers over the years just explain how it works and ask what happens when it rains ? When cleaning a window you are only using a very small amount of water 99% of it will run off as that’s how gravity works , a builder told one customer that it was the window cleaner using a pressurewasher to clean the windows that caused a damp problem in the roof , what a load of rubbish , when the customer asked me about it I laughed put up a ladder and had a look there was 3 slates missing on the roof she got them replaced and suprise suprise the problem disappeared and Ime still cleaning her windows 10 years later [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji51][emoji23]
We had a one where a lady had been living in the house 2 years. 1930’s semi. The upstairs bedroom had water coming in and she thought it could’ve been the gutters (to be fair they were blocked up badly) but on looking at the roof there were 3 slates missing.
What worried me is that there was a pile of the slates neatly stacked in the driveway, nice & clean. Roof also looked new. no sign of any broken slates as if they’d come away in a storm. Makes you wonder if the roofers hadn’t put them on, as i think the previous owners had roofing work done just before she moved in.


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I think it really comes down to maintaining the property. They fail to spend a penny maintaining their windows which should be painted every 3/5yrs. Then they try and blame someone, knowing full well they never got them painted. I recently painted 7 windows with wooden astragals which had 18 panes of glass each. Never again took me all week because I was using oil-base paint. Took me a day to mask up all the panes. Now I know why they are called panes, because they are one PITA. I had an allergic reaction to that job and will never Trad nor paint them again. I was wondering why the couple were so happy when I accepted the job as no one else would. I had a Brucie Bonus on that job, someone actually stole my minging old fleece jacket when I left it in the close, I found it hard to part with it, so in the end it was a blessing in disguise. :1f61e:  

 
I think it really comes down to maintaining the property. They fail to spend a penny maintaining their windows which should be painted every 3/5yrs. Then they try and blame someone, knowing full well they never got them painted. I recently painted 7 windows with wooden astragals which had 18 panes of glass each. Never again took me all week because I was using oil-base paint. Took me a day to mask up all the panes. Now I know why they are called panes, because they are one PITA. I had an allergic reaction to that job and will never Trad nor paint them again. I was wondering why the couple were so happy when I accepted the job as no one else would. I had a Brucie Bonus on that job, someone actually stole my minging old fleece jacket when I left it in the close, I found it hard to part with it, so in the end it was a blessing in disguise. :1f61e:  


[SIZE=11pt]You are absolutely spot on. Wooden frames rot when they are not properly maintained. If they are not treated properly and the wood is allowed to get wet and stay wet they will rot whether it’s our water or the rain.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]I’ve just spent today stripping down the cabin in my garden that my wfp gear is stored in. All the treated wood above ground that can dry out following rain is sound. The only areas that have rotted after 11 years are at ground level and stay wet for extended periods following rain. I’ve obviously got some work to do.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]My point is the same as yours. The blame for window frames rotting lies squarely with the homeowner for not maintaining them properly. We just have to find a way of telling them diplomatically[/SIZE]

 
I have a client who will have spent a serious amount of money having solid oak windows installed which were pre-treated in the factory some of the beads on the window look fine others don't so much, He has had the firm back out to re-seal around the beading with silicone but water is still affecting some of the windows which are less than 2 years old. 

@Marko067

I’ve just spent today stripping down the cabin in my garden that my wfp gear is stored in. All the treated wood above ground that can dry out following rain is sound. The only areas that have rotted after 11 years are at ground level and stay wet for extended periods following rain. I’ve obviously got some work to do.

I had an issue with my little shed which houses my storage tank and R/O one corner had sunken into the soft ground of the border in the garden and the runner on the bottom had completed rotted along with one of the floorboards become damaged, I painted the lower 1/3 including the floor with garage floor paint and all is solid and nice and dry, It took around 3 days to fully cure when during that hot spell we had this year. 

 
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It takes all sorts, had a customer cancel said the water running down the stone work would wash out the cement lol
What can you say ,takes the biscuit.Got a customer at moment £20 number do a office block next door both together, a d she is not totally convinced that her rendered paint work won't get damaged with the water running down the walls.


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I tend to avoid houses with rotten wooden frames or flaky paint as they’re well in excess of 100 years old. most of these houses in my area were built in the late 19th century -pre-ww1 & have single panes, often with cracks in the glass. Most of the frames are the originals and even after having been pained numerous times, the day of necessary replacement has come long ago. So many houses are pvc now, or wood of a reasonable standard, or aluminium, that theres no real need to be taking these kind of houses on as its a small part of the market that can cause a headache. Admittedly we have a number of these houses on our rounds that are long standing customers, but i never feel terrific when cleaning them and often feel i shouldn’t be, so actively avoid newbies now. The rain will have caused most of the rot as well as leaving it a bit too long between paint jobs. It doesn’t take much force at all to take a chunk out of these frames so...you know.. bit of a PITA situation really


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I have experienced this many times whereI have chipped some of the paint off even with very light stroke. I avoid these windows myself

 
If anything I'd expect trad to rot wooden frames, I've seen somewhere that it's the worst thing to wash your car with soap contains a hell of a lot of salt 

 
I have and will continue to ask if they dry them after rain. Usually after looking at the glass, I ask who's job it is to clean off paint splash on said windows. I do lots of old houses in villages with wooden windows. Lost or walked from a few over it. You have to be honest and show the customer on some of the real old houses that any cleaning is going to damage already rotten flakey frames. So jobs just aren't worth it. Some customers just aren't wort it either. On the plus side, Cleaning up after said painter is a delicate carful job at £60 per hour thank you so much. How many windows do you have again. ?

 

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