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How to get good staff?



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Dave Shaw

After 18 years of working on my it would do my head in, Now down to the nitty gritty 1 employee will mean I would need to buy a  need a bigger van and extra gear including bigger tank reel etc plus wages including holiday pay, sick pay and pension if I was turning over £350 a day with an employee there is most of the extra turnover gone and in the cold light of day I know for a fact I wouldn't be much better off either financially or mentally 

Plus add in the fact that I know I am the highest price window cleaner in my area my prices can't go much higher and I am charging quite a bit more than you [emoji6]

Fair play and each to their own as everyone has their limits. I’m thinking for the future though and when like yourself nearly 20 years into working for myself I don’t wanna be sloggin it out 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I’m just pointing out to the op the positives of employing as imo in the long run they far outweigh the negatives and there’s plenty that I still haven’t mentioned. If you can earn more on your own than with an employee then fair play but how much can you earn when your not working at all? That will be a big fat zero. Like I said I’m not greedy and I’m financially happy. Now I want to start getting my time back and you can’t fully achieve that on your own.


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Dave Shaw
In 1997 they were paid £5 an hour, time and a half for overtime and double time on a Sunday. They were also on a bonus system. The average house price then was circa £100k, and a damn site less up here. 
Whilst I appreciate it is hard to pay someone £10+ I think the vast majority on here have got into window-cleaning to earn a decent wage I find it strange that they would put someone else through what they didn't like, i.e. hard work for relatively low pay. I don't need people now saying I'm unrealistic as this is my opinion, if I couldn't pay someone a good wage I wouldn't employ them. No one forces you to take on work that doesn't allow you to pay a decent wage. 

No need to lecture me on minimum wages as I was doing that for years. (And very happy). Some people have more get up and go and want more whilst others are happy just cruising through life. It just depends on which bracket you fall into. I’d love to pay my lad more £££ but sometimes you have to wake up and smell the coffee. As been mentioned on here before opinions and “what I would dos”are useless to the op compared to real life situations.


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Part Timer
39 minutes ago, Dave Shaw said:


No need to lecture me on minimum wages

I'm not trying to lecture anyone all I'm doing is expressing my opinion. The OP was asking how much to pay someone. He also said that even with himself and a full time employee he wouldn't get anywhere near VAT threshold. To me that means his prices are way to low so he would be better upping his prices and losing the poorly paid work. 

We now have Amazon in London, others to follow, that are paying £10+ an hour. 

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Dave Shaw

Fair play and each to their own as everyone has their limits. I’m thinking for the future though and when like yourself nearly 20 years into working for myself I don’t wanna be sloggin it out 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I’m just pointing out to the op the positives of employing as imo in the long run they far outweigh the negatives and there’s plenty that I still haven’t mentioned. If you can earn more on your own than with an employee then fair play but how much can you earn when your not working at all? That will be a big fat zero. Like I said I’m not greedy and I’m financially happy. Now I want to start getting my time back and you can’t fully achieve that on your own.


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I do agree with you that with the right prices and on the basis that your never gonna go over the vat ref threshold then it’s certainly possible for one man to earn the same if not more than with an employee but that’s ok for the now and I’m thinking for the future. In a few years from now when your hoping that gardeners brings out an even lighter pole just so you can manage your workload I’ll be sat at home with a cup of tea enjoying life.


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DJT

There is a chap called josh latimer. He is based in america and does a pod cast called quick talk podcast. He gives a lot of business advice on cleaning companies, how to grow, when to grow etc etc. I've found it very helpful in the past. Something to listen to than the radio 👍

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Dave Shaw
I'm not trying to lecture anyone all I'm doing is expressing my opinion. The OP was asking how much to pay someone. He also said that even with himself and a full time employee he wouldn't get anywhere near VAT threshold. To me that means his prices are way to low so he would be better upping his prices and losing the poorly paid work. 
We now have Amazon in London, others to follow, that are paying £10+ an hour. 

He was asking how to get good staff and just mentioned his giving wage which led to the onslaught of criticism. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion but it means nothing without the experience to back it up. I don’t mean to sound disrespectful as I’ve always been taught to respect my elders and I know you’ve a lot more experience in employing than I have. I do have a lot of experience in being an employee in our industry so know how an employee would like to be treated which includes wages. I also saw the article on amazon and of a big company has basic wages that start at £10 per hour then why would you expect any smaller business’s to be different?


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Part Timer
5 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:


I do agree with you that with the right prices and on the basis that your never gonna go over the vat ref threshold then it’s certainly possible for one man to earn the same if not more than with an employee but that’s ok for the now and I’m thinking for the future. In a few years from now when your hoping that gardeners brings out an even lighter pole just so you can manage your workload I’ll be sat at home with a cup of tea enjoying life.


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🤣 I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning. I do it as a challenge, to see if I can build a business in an environment, service industry rather than manufacturing,  I've never worked in before. I currently use a CLX27 with a 45cm flocked brush so I don't think I'll be concerned about waiting for a lighter brush and pole. The likes of Amazon, again in my opinion, are the jobs people take because they can't get any better and have resigned themselves to a boring humdrum life. Wouldn't personally want to employ someone with that outlook on life, so again in my opinion a small business trying to acquire good staff would need to pay more.

I think you will find you said "all this talk of paying them more is nonsense and is probs from people that's never employed themselves as a window cleaner" It is this post I quoted you saying I had and disagreed, am I not allowed a different opinion. I'm also struggling to find anywhere we're I've given you this "onslaught of criticism"

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chris clean
22 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

🤣 I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning. I do it as a challenge, to see if I can build a business in an environment, service industry rather than manufacturing,  I've never worked in before. I currently use a CLX27 with a 45cm flocked brush so I don't think I'll be concerned about waiting for a lighter brush and pole. The likes of Amazon, again in my opinion, are the jobs people take because they can't get any better and have resigned themselves to a boring humdrum life. Wouldn't personally want to employ someone with that outlook on life, so again in my opinion a small business trying to acquire good staff would need to pay more.

I think you will find you said "all this talk of paying them more is nonsense and is probs from people that's never employed themselves as a window cleaner" It is this post I quoted you saying I had and disagreed, am I not allowed a different opinion. I'm also struggling to find anywhere we're I've given you this "onslaught of criticism"

@Part Timer I know exactly what you meant and most the lads on here would know. Whether we agree or not isn't the point the point of a firum forum so we can all get other ideas and take what you want out of it. There are a few on here now that ask a question them throw toys out of the pram when people give answers they don't like or agree with!  My view is you get What you pay for yeah of course you will find people who will work for only 10 quid an hour and if that's all they want out of life then fair enough but they are gonna be people without any ambition! Also gotta mention @DaveShaw his line about onslaught of criticism!! Come on we are all adults. Someone giving a different view is not an onslaught lol are you that sensitive at the pub or with mates if they don't agree 😂

Edited by chris clean

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Dave Shaw
🤣 I'm doing this for fun now, don't need to earn a penny from window cleaning. I do it as a challenge, to see if I can build a business in an environment, service industry rather than manufacturing,  I've never worked in before. I currently use a CLX27 with a 45cm flocked brush so I don't think I'll be concerned about waiting for a lighter brush and pole. The likes of Amazon, again in my opinion, are the jobs people take because they can't get any better and have resigned themselves to a boring humdrum life. Wouldn't personally want to employ someone with that outlook on life, so again in my opinion a small business trying to acquire good staff would need to pay more.
I think you will find you said "all this talk of paying them more is nonsense and is probs from people that's never employed themselves as a window cleaner" It is this post I quoted you saying I had and disagreed, am I not allowed a different opinion. I'm also struggling to find anywhere we're I've given you this "onslaught of criticism"

Think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick there pal. Where in that post did I mention you? It was a reply to iron giant and for some reason it quoted myself.


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[mention=2712]Part Timer[/mention] I know exactly what you meant and most the lads on here would know. Whether we agree or not isn't the point the point of a firum forum so we can all get other ideas and take what you want out of it. There are a few on here now that ask a question them throw toys out of the pram when people give answers they don't like or agree with!  My view is you get What you pay for yeah of course you will find people who will work for only 10 quid an hour and if that's all they want out of life then fair enough but they are gonna be people without any ambition! Also gotta mention [mention=5847]DaveShaw[/mention] his line about onslaught of criticism!! Come on we are all adults. Someone giving a different view is not an onslaught lol are you that sensitive at the pub or with mates if they don't agree [emoji23]

I take it your an employer then Chris? How much do you pay your lads if you don’t mind me asking?


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Teaboy

No but those of us that do, don’t know what we are on about!!!

I’ve said loads of times in my opinion what’s the most optimum way to run a business and just get told I don’t know what I’m on about or arrogant lol 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️


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chris clean
1 hour ago, Teaboy said:

No but those of us that do, don’t know what we are on about!!!

I’ve said loads of times in my opinion what’s the most optimum way to run a business and just get told I don’t know what I’m on about or arrogant lol 🤷🏼‍♂️🤷🏼‍♂️


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Yes lots of peeps not liking hearing what other have to think!

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THL4KEL

Everyone has had different experiences, I used to work in the Oil and Gas industry off shore and I worked with was plenty of people who were payed extremely high rates that were bone idle.. High pay does not always equate to a great employee..

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Dave Shaw
Yes lots of peeps not liking hearing what other have to think!

It’s not about not likingwhat they are hearing. Just merely pointing out the difference between opinion and the real world.


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Dave Shaw
Everyone has had different experiences, I used to work in the Oil and Gas industry off shore and I worked with was plenty of people who were payed extremely high rates that were bone idle.. High pay does not always equate to a great employee..

Exactly. And same goes that just because you are on low pay it doesn’t mean your gonna get a bad worker. Some of the best workers I know are on low wages. Some people can get complacent when they are on high pay and think they are better than the job. There’s a big difference between what you think you are worth and what a certain job is worth and if you want to be on good money as a window cleaner then you have to work for yourself.


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Iron Giant
22 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:


Fair play and each to their own as everyone has their limits. I’m thinking for the future though and when like yourself nearly 20 years into working for myself I don’t wanna be sloggin it out 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. I’m just pointing out to the op the positives of employing as imo in the long run they far outweigh the negatives and there’s plenty that I still haven’t mentioned. If you can earn more on your own than with an employee then fair play but how much can you earn when your not working at all? That will be a big fat zero. Like I said I’m not greedy and I’m financially happy. Now I want to start getting my time back and you can’t fully achieve that on your own.


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We all find a balance we are happy with as our own experiences and situations will determine what is right for each of us, But I do think that if someone is destined to employ then they will for it's never been a real consideration and don't slog on for 8 hrs a day unless the weather is against me which is rare. I had a decent talk with my accountant a few weeks ago now due to my increasing turnover and talked through various options so I know were I want and need to be and I am far from cruising through life.

I do think anyone considering employing needs to be fully aware of the tax implications and of course for 1 employee the size of a round would need to be doubled as there is a long journey before you someone might get were they need to be, £85,000 per annum turnover minus 1 decent employee wage and business running costs, tax and ni then profit would be around 45-48k it's some serious money earned but its a big chunk of money of the doey eyed £85,000 and as with all things in life there is a balance and we each have our own 

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Dave Shaw

We all find a balance we are happy with as our own experiences and situations will determine what is right for each of us, But I do think that if someone is destined to employ then they will for it's never been a real consideration and don't slog on for 8 hrs a day unless the weather is against me which is rare. I had a decent talk with my accountant a few weeks ago now due to my increasing turnover and talked through various options so I know were I want and need to be and I am far from cruising through life.

I do think anyone considering employing needs to be fully aware of the tax implications and of course for 1 employee the size of a round would need to be doubled as there is a long journey before you someone might get were they need to be, £85,000 per annum turnover minus 1 decent employee wage and business running costs, tax and ni then profit would be around 45-48k it's some serious money earned but its a big chunk of money of the doey eyed £85,000 and as with all things in life there is a balance and we each have our own 

Well put. Like you say it all depends on what you want and everyone wants different things.


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adamangler

I think over time we all find what works for us. There's so many ways you can be a window cleaner, from part time, to full time, to employing or not etc.

 

It's all really effort Vs reward, how much work do you want to do and how much stress  Vs how much do you want to make. The more you try to earn either solo or employing then your stress and workload will go up.

 

Personally I've now found a way that works for me and gives me a balance that I'm happy with.

 

I have a young lad working 3 days a week with me as a 2 man and in those days we smash the work out. 

 

We are getting through all my work in 3 days which I used to be behind on constantly on my own. I am now pushing for more work to get us up to 4 days a week.

 

Then that's me done, I don't want to work more than 4 days a week, nor do I want to go over vat. Nor do I want multiple vans, loads of employees and stress. 

 

But I do want 1 employee and I do prefer working as a 2 man overall rather than solo and it's mainly from a mental point of view. When I was solo I lacked motivation, early finishes, days off, oh I'll do that tomorrow etc. 5 days a week in all weather on your own just got boring and draining. With someone else in the van it's more motivating. It's also an easier day, I do fronts and sort the tickets talk to custy whilst laddo is doing the backs, dealing with higher windows, awkward angles and more reeling in etc. 

 

The most important thing working this way is you must employ someone you like and get on with. Working with someone who you just don't click with done that and hated it. You must get on or its a no go, it's a team effort working this way and you must be in sync.

 

My aim over the next year is to get up to just under the vat threshold whilst paying out as little expenses as possible. So putting prices up, doing more in a day, paying for less hours etc and generally making it as efficient as possible whilst doing the least work possible and reducing stress to a minimum.

 

That's just what I have stumbled across after a few years so hopefully everyone else will find a way that work for them be it solo or multiple vans etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Dave Shaw
I also don't have kids and don't need to knock off early to play on the PS4 [emoji23]

County Durham Lad


[emoji23][emoji23][emoji106]you don’t realise how precious time is until you don’t have any.


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Dave Shaw
I think over time we all find what works for us. There's so many ways you can be a window cleaner, from part time, to full time, to employing or not etc.
 
It's all really effort Vs reward, how much work do you want to do and how much stress  Vs how much do you want to make. The more you try to earn either solo or employing then your stress and workload will go up.
 
Personally I've now found a way that works for me and gives me a balance that I'm happy with.
 
I have a young lad working 3 days a week with me as a 2 man and in those days we smash the work out. 
 
We are getting through all my work in 3 days which I used to be behind on constantly on my own. I am now pushing for more work to get us up to 4 days a week.
 
Then that's me done, I don't want to work more than 4 days a week, nor do I want to go over vat. Nor do I want multiple vans, loads of employees and stress. 
 
But I do want 1 employee and I do prefer working as a 2 man overall rather than solo and it's mainly from a mental point of view. When I was solo I lacked motivation, early finishes, days off, oh I'll do that tomorrow etc. 5 days a week in all weather on your own just got boring and draining. With someone else in the van it's more motivating. It's also an easier day, I do fronts and sort the tickets talk to custy whilst laddo is doing the backs, dealing with higher windows, awkward angles and more reeling in etc. 
 
The most important thing working this way is you must employ someone you like and get on with. Working with someone who you just don't click with done that and hated it. You must get on or its a no go, it's a team effort working this way and you must be in sync.
 
My aim over the next year is to get up to just under the vat threshold whilst paying out as little expenses as possible. So putting prices up, doing more in a day, paying for less hours etc and generally making it as efficient as possible whilst doing the least work possible and reducing stress to a minimum.
 
That's just what I have stumbled across after a few years so hopefully everyone else will find a way that work for them be it solo or multiple vans etc.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

You took the words right out of my mouth.


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adamangler
2 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:


You took the words right out of my mouth.


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Also I would add that if I ever want to i could always employ a full timer. Staying just under vat with 1-2 employees and 1-2 vans max is the way forward for me.

 

I just hope the vat threshold doesnt come down like was talked about not long ago, hopefully it keeps going up!

 

Edited by adamangler

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Dave Shaw
 
Also I would add that if I ever want to i could always employ a full timer. Staying just under vat with 1-2 employees and 1-2 vans max is the way forward for me.
 
I just hope the vat threshold doesnt come down like was talked about not long ago, hopefully it keeps going up!
 

I’ve thought about that myself and it’s certainly do-able when the time comes for early retirement. Can’t see the vat reg ever coming down tbh as the massive effect it would have on many small businesses would be bad for the economy plus would probs put a lot out of business altogether.


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THL4KEL

Just to follow up on the title how to get good staff - you need to know how to interview people and find out as much as you can about what motivates them. Is it money, good working hours, gave being self employed a go and it's easier to work for someone. Are they looking for ongoing work or is this just a stop gap job.. Do they have something going on in their lives which might impact full-time employment.

 

Most companies these days go through a process of telephone interview, a few basic questions and find out salary expectations. 

 

Then if successful a face to face interview. Draft up at least ten questions for this..

 

If I was looking for staff I would then put through the best two candidates for a days trial on the job. See if they have potential and are they physically fit enough for the job and will they fit in working with me. 

 

Then I would pick the best person for the job. 

 

I used to do a bit of recruitment for companies I worked for in the past.. Hiring management jobs, trades and truck drivers, machine operators.

 

I remember an old boss I had once and he owned a pretty big haulage company. His policy was no drivers weighing over 100kg because they trash the seats in the trucks.. He had a fairly big list of types not to hire.. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Part Timer
1 hour ago, THL4KEL said:

His policy was no drivers weighing over 100kg because they trash the seats in the trucks.. He had a fairly big list of types not to hire.. 

I wouldn't have worked for him then 🤗

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Green Pro Clean Ltd

Moderation - get back to being civil with each other lads. 

 

On the topic of the O.P. 'How to find good staff'

 

Job Centre = waste of time as most applicants are forced to apply in order to be able to continue to sign on. 

 

F.B. / GUMTREE = Waste of time as you get bottom of barrel with moms and girlfriends pushing lazy dossers off the PS4 and putting them forward for positions they wouldn't apply for themselves cause then they cant play fifa. 

 

Sites like Indeed and Monster Jobs are the way forward.  People on there have to interact with the site and hence are more likely to actively be looking for work.  You get a pile of CVs in then sift through them then start on phone interviews then down to the ones you want to meet then hopefully you get a god one. When advertising on Indeed (which we currently are) pay the £5 per day 'boost' and you'll get much better response much faster. 

 

Regarding wages. 

 

95% on here are owner / workers - you own the business, you build the business and you put in so many hours to get there that you don't realize that it's not £40 per hour all day every day by the time a the admin, collecting, van maintenance, banking etc is done for the day.  

 

Law says minimum for an adult is just below £8 per hour - so £10 per hour is a good 20% above what is almost guaranteed to be the national average. 

 

'I wouldn't work for a poxy £10 per hour so I dont  expect others to!'  --- total nonsense.  You dont work for £10 per hour because you own the business and built it ground up and still graft daily to make it work.  They just turn in and complete a list of chores. Two very different roles. 

 

Also remember no one is holding a gun to anyones head. If they don't want to work for £10 per hour they dom't have to.  They can go elsewhere. 

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