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Adam curtis

Thinking of up grading to a facelift hot water system



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Den

I like the idea of hot on first cleans but how many first cleans are needed when your rounds are full to capacity as mentioned above would like hot water system but I'm never going to pay that sort of money for something that would only be a benefit from time to time. 

Also I do lots of old listed buildings with really old glass would worry me in the winter months. 

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Pjj
9 hours ago, Den said:

I like the idea of hot on first cleans but how many first cleans are needed when your rounds are full to capacity as mentioned above would like hot water system but I'm never going to pay that sort of money for something that would only be a benefit from time to time. 

Also I do lots of old listed buildings with really old glass would worry me in the winter months. 

 

 

We do a lot of heratage buildings for English nature , national trust, converted churches that are all leaded we use hot water on them all year round not been a problem I would say the more important thing rather than hot water is being careful with scrubbing not to damage the lead , some windows will leak more with hot water as it’s thinner than cold but the results on this type of glass are much better with hot as it helps get the dirt out of the pits in the old glass that cold doesn’t 

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Den
9 minutes ago, Pjj said:

 

 

We do a lot of heratage buildings for English nature , national trust, converted churches that are all leaded we use hot water on them all year round not been a problem I would say the more important thing rather than hot water is being careful with scrubbing not to damage the lead , some windows will leak more with hot water as it’s thinner than cold but the results on this type of glass are much better with hot as it helps get the dirt out of the pits in the old glass that cold doesn’t 

That’s an interesting reading and informative. Some of the older window panes not leaded have lots of imperfections and would be worried  that the hot water would break them as obviously not like a modern double glazing unit, I have never used hot water and could easy be corrected. 

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Part Timer
10 minutes ago, Den said:

That’s an interesting reading and informative. Some of the older window panes not leaded have lots of imperfections and would be worried  that the hot water would break them as obviously not like a modern double glazing unit, I have never used hot water and could easy be corrected. 

As they are thin then more than likely, if the house is heated, the panes themselves won't be as cold as good double glazed windows so therefore less likely to crack. Also as @Pjjsaid you won't need to apply as much pressure to get the same results. Don't really know why I have posted this as you're far to tight to spend the money anyway 🤗

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Jonny87

Just had my grippatank 9kw heater fitted to my existing waterworks setup. 

 

Been using it for two weeks now and I love it. 

 

Id far recommend grippatank over facelift and ionics in my opinion. 

8230E298-34DD-4CDC-9AB0-63505799E562.jpeg

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Jonny87

I went down to Cambridge and had my hot water system fitted to my current waterworks setup two weeks ago now. My oh my...... I love it. 

 

If anyone is thinking about it, my advice would be go for it. 

 

9kw webasto heater 

frost stat (no more messing with oil radiators)

battery to battery charger 

2x 115amp batteries 

hot water hoses

pumps relocated inside the cabinet for frost protection. 

Diesel feed taken from the vans tank. 

 

I now just turn the pumps on, jump in the van and off I go. Piping hot water all day, totally controllable from Luke warm, to so hot you literally can’t put your hand under the jets. 

 

I did a Pvc clean last week for the first time

ever with no chemicals. The hot water just melted the green. 

 

I know it’s a topic of contention for many. Skme

feeling it’s a waste of money, and hot doesn’t clean any better than cold bla bla bla, but my experience so far has been very positive. 

 

Grippatank were true professionals, I couldn’t fault them. Now I’ve used hot, I don’t think I’ll never go back to cold water now. I’ve messed about with immersions and lpg heaters in the last, but this system is just another level. 

 

Cant recommend Grippatank enough. 

 

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/hydroheat-9kw-hot-water-heater

 

 

 

3A2B484E-BF26-42F0-9BC4-DF1B213CDC45.jpeg

BE7ECAAD-E0F5-4666-BC91-FF693D1447BF.jpeg

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Oli

Very nice mate.
Am I correct in thinking this system needs a £500 service every year?

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spruce
37 minutes ago, Oli said:

Very nice mate.
Am I correct in thinking this system needs a £500 service every year?

 

There's nothing to service. You would just need to ensure that its not damaged by frost, the antifreeze is 'fresh' in the hot water circuit and that you run it on the right fuel. It will need servicing or repairing when it stops working. You will know it needs attention/servicing when it starts to smoke excessively on startup which is due to carbon build-up in the ignition chamber.

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scottish cleaning service

Does it go through much fuel and what size is the tank? many thanks

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Den

Is that the 700 litre or 525l waterworks really fancy one of them myself what van you using Jonny.

Edited by Den

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spruce
2 hours ago, scottish cleaning service said:

Does it go through much fuel and what size is the tank? many thanks

It doesn't come with a fuel tank.

 

The usual practice is to 'tap' into the van's fuel tank. In doing so you will use ordinary road diesel.

 

In the early days many Webasto, Eberspatcher and TR users had problems with red diesel. This seems to have improved as red diesel sold on inland marinas and other farmers outlets now has to meet better standards criteria. But the situation when I last investigated this situation was the marina's on the coast are still able to sell the 'rubbish' red diesel as it is being used at sea.

I also understand that heating oil kerosene 28 is also fine but buying it in small quantaties is an issue in our part of the world.

 

It is perfect legal to use heating oil and declare its use as such. But you will need a dedicated tank fitted that will only supply the heater. The advantage of this is cost saving fuel wise. As a heating oil users your details are logged by the supplier for the Receiver's reference. So I would also expect a visit at some time and your van tank's fuel dipped and checked to ensure you aren't using this fuel in your van's engine.

 

The cleaners who run diesel heaters from their fuel tank seem to average about £5 a day or about £80.00 of diesel a month. But this would also depend on the operator and what he is asking the system to do and how often he is using it. In other words, using £10 of diesel today and nothing tomorrow averages out at £5 over 2 days.

Edited by spruce

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scottish cleaning service

Thanks @spruce I thought cherry was just the same as diesel but with a dye through it? I meant to say tank of water it is heating but after looking over their website it mentions 400 litres. Probably the same cost of electricity to heat the tank but an easier clean so less water needed. I see it as the future especially up here where its a lot colder and would be warmly welcomed. I will be interested next year if I keep getting new customers. Thanks for the info.

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Jonny87
8 hours ago, Oli said:

Very nice mate.
Am I correct in thinking this system needs a £500 service every year?

 

 

Price wise It depends where you take it. Wont be far off though I don’t think. 

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spruce
1 hour ago, scottish cleaning service said:

Thanks @spruce I thought cherry was just the same as diesel but with a dye through it? I meant to say tank of water it is heating but after looking over their website it mentions 400 litres. Probably the same cost of electricity to heat the tank but an easier clean so less water needed. I see it as the future especially up here where its a lot colder and would be warmly welcomed. I will be interested next year if I keep getting new customers. Thanks for the info.

 

If you go onto the boating forums and see what live-a-boards have to say about their Webasto heaters. This was before red diesel was upgraded. In fact there is a report of a boater who was taking Webasto to court as he argued that they were selling a product to boaters that wasn't fit for purpose.

The complaint was that these heaters were sooting up rather quickly and were failing to start. Webasto took that same heater repaired it and ran it on white (road) diesel for the same period as the unit was running on red diesel. They opened it up and the unit was virtually carbon free inside. I don't know what happened to the court case tbh, but I think the Webasto reworded their instructions to make it more clear that the buyer took responsibility to ensure that the correct quality of fuel was used. If it wasn't then it would negate the warranty.

 

Doing a Google search on "webasto heaters and red diesel" brings up some interesting stories. But the situation seems to have got better since 2011 when the new regulations came into effect. But even then there was a twist with FAME being added to the better diesel.

https://www.abnb.co.uk/submenupages/red_diesel.html

 

Here's an updated situation with regard to the taxing of red diesel and how crazy its all got with EU legislation. It would appear that the EU wants all diesel used for propulsion charged and taxed at road diesel prices. The only red diesel sold will be for heating. So just how this will play out is anyone's guess especially when we consider Britian leaving the EU.

https://www.theca.org.uk/rats/red_diesel_use_in_EU

 

We have a local lad who has a hot box which he uses to heat water as and when. In the early days the roof of his Transit van was black with soot that came from the roof mounted exhaust. The roof of his new van is better as his fuel supplier has changed. But the garage marina on the coast that sells fuel to the fishing boats still sells terrible stuff he tells me.

 

The beauty about diesel is that its a safe fuel and you heat on demand. The cons are that diesel isn't cheap and the price per liter seems to be on the rise. Using an electric element is a cheaper setup option even if you have to get an electrician to install a 16amp outlet. The downside is that you heat a full tank of water which you may plan to use that day but don't.

 

 

Edited by spruce

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Jonny87
3 hours ago, Den said:

Is that the 700 litre or 525l waterworks really fancy one of them myself what van you using Jonny.

 

 

Its the 700 litre waterworks system, and in a Renault traffic swb SL29. 👍 

 

love the van and system. Perfect combo for me now. 

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Jjs window cleaning service
 
 
Its the 700 litre waterworks system, and in a Renault traffic swb SL29. [emoji106] 
 
love the van and system. Perfect combo for me now. 
I'm looking at the same system 2 man early next year love the look of the power reels!

Sent using the Window Cleaning Forums mobile app

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scottish cleaning service

Looks like a good setup, still an issue on the difference it makes against cold water. I believe experience will be our only teacher. Folk who have never used hot water are commenting against folk who have. It all comes down to using the hot water system and seeing for our self.

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THL4KEL

You only have to wash a greasy pot with cold water vs hot water to instantly see how quicker hot is.

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steve garwood
1 hour ago, THL4KEL said:

You only have to wash a greasy pot with cold water vs hot water to instantly see how quicker hot is.

No offence mate but that’s a stupid comment.

I’ve had hot on my van for around 8-9 years.

Although I like it in icy conditions, I completely disagree with comments like ‘game changer’ etc.

As for the analogy about greasy dishes, most of the time it’s not grease we’re up against.

Just my humble opinion 

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THL4KEL

Well one thing I know is when I'm dealing with filthy fascia using hot water saves my joints having to scrub as hard as it comes of a lot easier.

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Pjj
33 minutes ago, THL4KEL said:

Well one thing I know is when I'm dealing with filthy fascia using hot water saves my joints having to scrub as hard as it comes of a lot easier.

 

 

Exactley in hot hot summer months doing a plastic clean is hard work you have to go over the same area loads of times with hot maximum of two passes and it’s clean we are at least 50% quicker with hot on first cleans , regular salty costal work : plastic cleans , and commercial building wash downs I would never go back to cold regardless of cost 

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steve garwood
9 hours ago, THL4KEL said:

Well one thing I know is when I'm dealing with filthy fascia using hot water saves my joints having to scrub as hard as it comes of a lot easier.

Agree it is easier with hot doing fasciae etc.

Ive stopped doing things like that, so only use my hot now when the weather is really cold 

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Green Pro Clean Ltd
On 18/11/2018 at 19:58, steve garwood said:

No offence mate but that’s a stupid comment.

I’ve had hot on my van for around 8-9 years.

Although I like it in icy conditions, I completely disagree with comments like ‘game changer’ etc.

As for the analogy about greasy dishes, most of the time it’s not grease we’re up against.

Just my humble opinion 

 

You can't argue the fact that it is faster Steve at melting crud off windows and frames.  

 

No it hasn't changed the game but it sure has made it a hell of a lot easier.  

 

If you're buying a new van kitted out tomorrow and one is £150 and comes with hot water which one are you getting?  We both know the honest answer to that mate. 

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RWCleaning

I’m just waiting for Steve to come back with something very witty 😂

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