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Jimmy O

One to walk away from



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Green Pro Clean Ltd
3 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

you didn't say the size of the property in your defence.

 

Does not matter even if one small ground floor window.  You still have vehicle running and maintenance costs. Tools and equipment costs. Office cost (phone internet brochures etc) and on the list goes.  

 

I do apologise for the 'my way' attitude here but £5?? It's not even worth knocking the door to start with.  

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Dave Shaw
 
Does not matter even if one small ground floor window.  You still have vehicle running and maintenance costs. Tools and equipment costs. Office cost (phone internet brochures etc) and on the list goes.  
 
I do apologise for the 'my way' attitude here but £5?? It's not even worth knocking the door to start with.  

You will find that it’s the oldschool cheaper guys with good established compact rounds that have set the standard for hourly rates easily being able to achieve £30-£60 an hour doing £5/6/7 jobs. I know this because I’ve done it my self. No disrespect to you Darren but your just trying to keep up with them by HAVING to charge high prices because your work is so spread out and spend more time driving/ setting up etc. They are not driving prices down as they were around long before the runabout lads but the newer lads are putting prices up so they can compete with the hourly rates. All is good though as I come across as being cheap compared to some of the crazy prices going about in my area and still probs getting a better hourly rate than most of em because of the quality of my work. This is no means an arguement or attack on any individual but just pointing out that getting out of bed for a fiver is VERY profitable with the right kind of work but I can certainly see why some would find it impossible to make a profit by charging them rates.


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wee man

You will find that it’s the oldschool cheaper guys with good established compact rounds that have set the standard for hourly rates easily being able to achieve £30-£60 an hour doing £5/6/7 jobs. I know this because I’ve done it my self. No disrespect to you Darren but your just trying to keep up with them by HAVING to charge high prices because your work is so spread out and spend more time driving/ setting up etc. They are not driving prices down as they were around long before the runabout lads but the newer lads are putting prices up so they can compete with the hourly rates. All is good though as I come across as being cheap compared to some of the crazy prices going about in my area and still probs getting a better hourly rate than most of em because of the quality of my work. This is no means an arguement or attack on any individual but just pointing out that getting out of bed for a fiver is VERY profitable with the right kind of work but I can certainly see why some would find it impossible to make a profit by charging them rates.


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The thing is them £5 jobs have probably been that price for 20 years or more so in real terms everything else has went up apart from your wages.

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The thing is them £5 jobs have probably been that price for 20 years or more so in real terms everything else has went up apart from your wages.

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Your work has went from amazingly well paid work years ago to just average hourly rate for window cleaners now.

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Clisty1989

I have 3 £5 jobs, 2 are family and 1 is a front with 3 windows and a door about 250m from my house, in the middle of 5 jobs. My father in law has a run of 50 fronts over 3/4 mile on one road, and another 60 over a mile on same road. He charged £4 a front, and we can do them in 3 hours. They going up to a fiver in the new year

He been doing them 20 years, when I started they were £2 a front, I've been forcing him to up prices, albeit slowly.

Edited by Clisty1989

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Dave Shaw
Your work has went from amazingly well paid work years ago to just average hourly rate for window cleaners now.

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20 years ago £5 jobs would have been £3/4 jobs so they have gone up but not much as they dont need to. Don’t get me wrong I do have my fair share of high priced work. Some commercials we do bring in £100+ per hour. Only this week I got a call from a lady desperate for a cleaner. She was a couple of miles out of my area so I told her it wasn’t worth me going over for one house. She said name your price and didn’t mind paying extra to cover travelling costs so I went to have a look. I quoted her £25 per clean for an 8 weekly cycle. It’s a three bed semi with 9 windows, 2 doors and a set of patios. Really it should only take two of us a few mins to clean but with travelling your looking at a good twenty mins to half hour depending on traffic hence the price. This is one of the reasons why their is such a massive difference in prices. One thing that remains a constant though is hourly rates regardless of what you charge.


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wee man

20 years ago £5 jobs would have been £3/4 jobs so they have gone up but not much as they dont need to. Don’t get me wrong I do have my fair share of high priced work. Some commercials we do bring in £100+ per hour. Only this week I got a call from a lady desperate for a cleaner. She was a couple of miles out of my area so I told her it wasn’t worth me going over for one house. She said name your price and didn’t mind paying extra to cover travelling costs so I went to have a look. I quoted her £25 per clean for an 8 weekly cycle. It’s a three bed semi with 9 windows, 2 doors and a set of patios. Really it should only take two of us a few mins to clean but with travelling your looking at a good twenty mins to half hour depending on traffic hence the price. This is one of the reasons why their is such a massive difference in prices. One thing that remains a constant though is hourly rates regardless of what you charge.


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I'm out atm so this will be a quick one. In 20 years the cost of living has probably doubled so to stay on the same wages all you calls should of near doubled ( or there abouts)

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Dave Shaw
I'm out atm so this will be a quick one. In 20 years the cost of living has probably doubled so to stay on the same wages all you calls should of near doubled ( or there abouts)

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Your talking turnover now and not individual prices. Two very different things. Over the last twenty years our turnover has gone from roughly £25 per hour to £40/50 per hour so pretty much in line with your calculations and even though individual prices may not have doubled the turnover has for various other reasons. . As Ive said many times individual prices are not the main concern, it’s your turnover and profits that you should be more bothered about.


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wee man

Your talking turnover now and not individual prices. Two very different things. Over the last twenty years our turnover has gone from roughly £25 per hour to £40/50 per hour so pretty much in line with your calculations and even though individual prices may not have doubled the turnover has for various other reasons. . As Ive said many times individual prices are not the main concern, it’s your turnover and profits that you should be more bothered about.


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Well the fiver houses are getting it easy, everything else goes up apart from there window cleaner lol

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scottish cleaning service

I like the fiver cleans because you don't need to mess about with change. If you are go cashless then the price is immaterial and you could raise prices with inflation.

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Master Jedi Alejandro
19 minutes ago, scottish cleaning service said:

I like the fiver cleans because you don't need to mess about with change. If you are go cashless then the price is immaterial and you could raise prices with inflation.

Make them £10 cleans. Still no change. 😉

Edited by Master Jedi Alejandro

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scottish cleaning service
1 minute ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Make them £10 cleans. Still no change. 😉

 

I have £5, £10 and £15 cleans but still have one £8 clean. Will need to have a rethink.

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Dave Shaw
Well the fiver houses are getting it easy, everything else goes up apart from there window cleaner lol

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I wouldn’t say easy but more lucky that they have a cleaner with a good enough round to be able to do that. Tbh a fiver for a downstairs flat with probs 4 windows or so that will take a couple of minutes ain’t bad. You should easy be doin at least ten of them an hour unless you cover more ground than Christopher Columbus.


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scottish cleaning service

The good thing regarding the fiver cleans, you never get any hassle. They know if they give you a hard time you just tell them to get someone else. Months later they still don't have anyone and become embarrassed to ask you.

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P4dstar
11 hours ago, Green Pro Clean Ltd said:

 

Does not matter even if one small ground floor window.  You still have vehicle running and maintenance costs. Tools and equipment costs. Office cost (phone internet brochures etc) and on the list goes.  

 

I do apologise for the 'my way' attitude here but £5?? It's not even worth knocking the door to start with.  

I'm with you dude, I ain't getting out of bed for a fiver!

 

10 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:


20 years ago £5 jobs would have been £3/4 jobs so they have gone up but not much as they dont need to.

You see the problem is 20 years ago a Freddo was 10p, it's now as much as 35p so a £3 job 20 years ago should be £10.50 😂

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Green Pro Clean Ltd
11 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:

No disrespect to you Darren 

 

But yet you feel the need to comment on me again. 

 

11 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:

your just trying to keep up with them by HAVING

 

I could charge £2 and a toffee crisp if I wanted by why would I bother doing 3 times the work?  You need 3 times the customers to do the same turnover we do. 

 

11 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:

because your work is so spread out and spend more time driving/ setting up

 

You have no idea about my rounds yet you still try to make an example of me amd my methods.  We may cover a 15 mile radius but once we've driven to work for the day the van wont move more than 2 miles. 

 

11 hours ago, Dave Shaw said:

setting up etc

 

LMAO.  Open side door, Grab pole, walk to back of house (gates all open as we always text) clean windows, wind up hose, put pole in, next job.  

 

What 'set up, etc'? 

 

Yet just more of you being tedious Dave.  HOWEVER -- AND TAKE THIS OFFER SERIOUSLY -- Whenever you like you know my address, come spend a day in our van and perhaps you may realize that your way is NOT the only way, perhaps there is an 'alternative' way.  AND YES, THAT'S A SERIOUS OFFER!

 

Regarding the hourly rates you quote above, you may well do that whilst 'on the tools' as do we, however you aren't  earning a penny for all the walking round collecting you claimed you do in a previous post so dont forget to deduct those hours.  Not necessary with cashless collections. 

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Dave Shaw
 
LMAO.  Open side door, Grab pole, walk to back of house (gates all open as we always text) clean windows, wind up hose, put pole in, next job.  
 
What 'set up, etc'? 
 
Yet just more of you being tedious Dave.  HOWEVER -- AND TAKE THIS OFFER SERIOUSLY -- Whenever you like you know my address, come spend a day in our van and perhaps you may realize that your way is NOT the only way, perhaps there is an 'alternative' way.  AND YES, THAT'S A SERIOUS OFFER!
 
Regarding the hourly rates you quote above, you may well do that whilst 'on the tools' as do we, however you aren't  earning a penny for all the walking round collecting you claimed you do in a previous post so dont forget to deduct those hours.  Not necessary with cashless collections. 

I never said my way was the only way, quite the opposite as I was just pointing out that you don’t have to charge top end to make a crust. Some do, some don’t. Just don’t get why you don’t accept that.


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Part Timer

I just don't understand my way is best. I clean windows in a different way to the pair of you. I don't insist on this that and the other, I don't clean 10 fronts an hour at £5 a pop. What I do do is clean windows and earn far more than anyone else that does a manual job. Tough 💩 if you disagree, and you can both tell me I'm wrong and my reply will be I've been married for 35 years and every day the Wife tells me I'm wrong. Never listened to her bitching and you have even less chance of me listening to either one of you. I do however respect that you both run successful business's and just wish you would give each other the respect you both deserve   

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Dave Shaw
I just don't understand my way is best. I clean windows in a different way to the pair of you. I don't insist on this that and the other, I don't clean 10 fronts an hour at £5 a pop. What I do do is clean windows and earn far more than anyone else that does a manual job. Tough [emoji90] if you disagree, and you can both tell me I'm wrong and my reply will be I've been married for 35 years and every day the Wife tells me I'm wrong. Never listened to her bitching and you have even less chance of me listening to either one of you. I do however respect that you both run successful business's and just wish you would give each other the respect you both deserve   

I don’t disrespect what he does as I do a bit of that sort of work myself out in my local county side and it’s for that reason why I feel I can give a fair comment every time this topic arises. It’s his disrespect for others that gets me riled. Believe me it would be better for everyone if I could block him so I don’t have to rise to his nonsense but I can’t as he’s a mod.


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Iron Giant

I think we are all wrong, had a quick look elsewhere and there's a bloke claiming he charges £27.00 for a 2-bed terrace house 🤣  although every 12 weeks who only has their windows cleaned every 3 months 

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Dave Shaw
You see the problem is 20 years ago a Freddo was 10p, it's now as much as 35p so a £3 job 20 years ago should be £10.50 [emoji23]

[emoji23][emoji23] I might have to use that one next time I put my prices up. No seriously though mate that’s a bad example. Tradesmen on high wages 20 years ago are still on high wages now but haven’t really changed much. It’s the lower end of the scale that’s constantly on the rise. Minimum wage hasn’t even doubled over the last 20 years so a £5 job would be more like a £9 job now on that basis. Look at other trades like car garages. Their hourly labour rates haven’t changed much either. Even though mot prices are capped most are still no where near that and if anything have gone down over the last 20 years. Inflation over the last 20 years is almost double as well. They are not the only reasons for such price hikes in our industry over the last 20 years but more to do with the fact that domestic cleaners are prepared to cover larger areas these days meaning they have to charge a hell of a lot more to make the same money. Also the services provided have improved greatly as well which contributes. It’s just different ways of working but more often than not they often achieve the same goal.


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Dave Shaw
I think we are all wrong, had a quick look elsewhere and there's a bloke claiming he charges £27.00 for a 2-bed terrace house 🤣  although every 12 weeks who only has their windows cleaned every 3 months 

Not wrong mate but people will pay them sort of prices when they are desperate for whatever reason. Either that or they can’t get any one cheaper. I picked up one this week that was desperate as she couldn’t get a local windy to do em due to their old guy being an oldschool territorial lad and all the other local lads wouldn’t do it. I’m not bothered about all that but said due to the amount of travelling involved I HAVE to charge £25 for ten mins actual work. Probs would have been a tenner if integrated into my round locally. That’s just the way it’s going with cleaners being prepared to go further afield. She was more than happy though when I explained it’s only every 8 weeks and at £6.25 per fortnight it will be cheaper than what some of the fortnightly lads will be charging. Plus she gets all her frames, doors and garage windows included and I’m not gonna be walking on her lower roof tiles which the other lad did. Another example of how levels of service has also changed.


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Iron Giant

@DaveShaw I agree with quite a bit of what you have said across your varied replies, more so the turnover and profit example some lads in other parts of the UK will be doing a similar day rate as you or me but be working differently maybe, ultimately it's the end results that matter to each individual, which for me personally is good earnings no stress and very little travel.  

All this I do this and I do that is getting no one anywhere, it's simply :banghead3: if anyone likes going around in circles go and get yourself on a merry-go-round until your sick.  

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Dave Shaw
[mention=5847]DaveShaw[/mention] I agree with quite a bit of what you have said across your varied replies, more so the turnover and profit example some lads in other parts of the UK will be doing a similar day rate as you or me but be working differently maybe, ultimately it's the end results that matter to each individual, which for me personally is good earnings no stress and very little travel.  

All this I do this and I do that is getting no one anywhere, it's simply :banghead3: if anyone likes going around in circles go and get yourself on a merry-go-round until your sick.  

Here here. Although this topic will come up again and again due to its many variables and conflicting methods. Alls I can do is give what I think is a fair opinion based on many years of working for and with different cleaners and taking advice from them all.


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Green Pro Clean Ltd
On 02/12/2018 at 07:25, Dave Shaw said:

It’s his disrespect for others

 

I don't disrespect anyone @Dave Shaw I simply have no regard for you. 

 

You have constantly since you joined this forum attacked me for no reason other than to be contradictory.  You continually want to shout down any suggestions I make as being wrong and you continually want to antagonize at every possible opportunity.  This is just fact as you continue to attack anything I say or do as is proven with you always quoting my posts in negative manner. 

 

On 02/12/2018 at 07:25, Dave Shaw said:

so I don’t have to rise to his nonsense but I cant

 

You are so weak willed you can't simply 'ignore' someone without a 'button' to do so? 

 

You have been issued warnings by other mods for your continued cantankerous behaviours and your desires to continually harass me as an individual it wouldn't surprise me if you aren't here much longer as you only need 3 points for a ban and you're doing a grand job of collecting them. 

 

You are also the only member of the forum that gets discussed in the staff room by moderators and administrators due to your continued behaviour here.  Time we could spend better else where. 

 

I have made you a legit offer to come look at what we do as you currently have no idea how this business is actually run but instead you simply wish to continue with your drivel about how I disrespect others on here which is not the case. I don't even disrespect you, I simply have noo respect for you and your negative behaviour.

 

P.S. if you interacted with any other member in such manner you would have already been banned. You are only still here as it is me you continue to bully with your attacks and nonsense.

Edited by Green Pro Clean Ltd

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P4dstar

Even if someone sees a comment as my way or the high way there is usually some wisdom to be taken from it. If we all agreed we would have nothing to talk about.

 

On the original point of £5 cleans it is my opinion that these are not sustainable. I believe you need to price a job so that if everyone in the street moved you would be able to still make a profit while cleaning the one house. Being from a poor former coal mining town in the north west I can appreciate how guys want to work on the basis of having multiple terraced houses in a row and they would probably just drop or increase the price of the remaining of half the street moved out. I can see how it would be profitable to clean these houses in a row at £5 each.

 

Where I live now it wouldn’t be profitable, I have to drive 15 minutes between jobs. If I were to head to the closest city and focus on terraced cleans at £5 a pop it wouldn’t fit my business model.

 

The two of you have different business models. Darren doesn’t focus on cheap compact work, Dave doesn’t go in with a high minimum charge. This doesn’t mean either of you are wrong. It’s like comparing rugby and American football, just because the balls the same shape doesn’t mean the rules are the same.

 

Darren’s advice is probably more suited to people like me and Dave’s advice would be good if I still lived up north.

 

Now let’s play nicely!

 

 

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