First decent set up

Hi everyone, first time posting on here, pretty new to all this. Only being doing window cleaning for about 3 months with a temporary set up. Finally had a week off and started with an empty van and decided to set it up myself. Just looking for approval or criticism or any ideas on what I’m missing or could do with. 

Dirty dan said:

Hi everyone, first time posting on here, pretty new to all this. Only being doing window cleaning for about 3 months with a temporary set up. Finally had a week off and started with an empty van and decided to set it up myself. Just looking for approval or criticism or any ideas on what I’m missing or could do with. 

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I hate to comment on posts like this, especially when the owner has got stuck in and completed a job which works. For that I give you full credit. You have thought about where you want stuff for easy access - ie. controller and battery and the hose reel is in the right place if the offside door is the main opening one.

I also give you credit for buying a high roof van. I wish I had invested in a high roof and a long wheel base rather than the swb van I have now. I like the idea of yours where you can locate your ladder inside the van rather than on a roof rack.

I don't know what van you have, but I would remove that plylining on the floor and paint it with Protectakote or some other floor treatment directly onto the metal. Your van looks very dry but any spilt water will get under the ply and over time start to rot it. It also wouldn't be good for rust if the van's floor isn't galvanized. It will also smell mouldy and damp.

I looks like you have a very small battery. You will need to get a bigger one as I doubt that that will do you a days work. If its a sealed lead acid battery then you should only use about 50% of its amp capacity before recharging.

The most critical part of this is that IBC tank you have as a storage tank. Whilst these IBC tanks are transported full of liquids on the back of a lorry, I don't believe that they are the best for a storage tank in the back of a window cleaners van. I'm also not in favour of the straps you have securing it as they aren't man enough to hold that tank in an accident. I also wouldn't trust those load restraint hooks in the floor as a secure anchor either.

There was an accident in Norfolk about 14 months ago between 3 cars. Not much detail was released about the accident, but one of the vehicles involved was a VW Caddy van used by a window cleaner with a tank in the back. In the accident his tank apparently slid forward and crushed him to death. The others escaped with minor injuries.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-in-his-20s-dies-in-a1067-collision-1-5277880

This was reported on the other forum and one of the reliable posters posted

"Been told by a friend of the deceased he was 23 and it was a wydale tank strapped in using straps. That's all I know."

Personally, I wouldn't advise using straps.

Another issue you always have to consider when fitting a tank is maximum axle weights. You maybe well within the payload limit of your van, but you could still overload your front axle with a tank placed well forward. For example, my SWB Boxer is a 333 model with a 1400+kg payload. A fully filled 650 liter tank across the bulkhead will over load the front axle with two operators in the front and a full tank of diesel.

Looks very similar to my first set up. The first things that comes to mind, and I was guilty of this, that tank is unsafe.

That looks like a 1000 ltr IBC, held in place with what looks like a bungee cord. I had mine in with 4 600kg load straps and mine was only a 600 ltr IBC. You might be aware that 1000 ltrs of water weighs 1000 kilograms, if you have a prang at anything above 20 mph there is a very good chance you'll be squashed to death.

Make it a priority to find some cash for a tank and frame and have it bolted in! I bought my 650 ltr tank and frame second hand for £100 and had it bolted in for around £120.

Have a look around for a used tank, or just get a loan. It'll save your life if you ever have a crash.

The pump is too high up in the van, you'll get problems with it like air being sucked in to the pump and air locks which are a real pain. Take the pump off and put it as close to the floor as you can mate, nake sure all your connections are solid, use PTFE tape too.

Looks like the pump is drawing from a pipe that is dropped in to the IBC, you can buy a tap that fits on to the IBC where the 1" connection point is at the bottom, fit it on with a barbed connection and you'll be much better off. Hers a link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBC-Tank-Cap-With-Brass-Tap-1-2-Snap-On-Connector-Water-Butt-Oil-Fuel-Storage/132907152945?epid=18027582058&hash=item1ef1e23631:g:dPkAAOSwgnJcLdTC:rk:2f:1&frcectupt=true.

Put the tap on the tank and connect to that, mount the pump as low as possible and you should be problem free. Get yourself a proper tank as quick as possible mate.

spruce said:

I hate to comment on posts like this, especially when the owner has got stuck in and completed a job which works. For that I give you full credit. You have thought about where you want stuff for easy access - ie. controller and battery and the hose reel is in the right place if the offside door is the main opening one.

I also give you credit for buying a high roof van. I wish I had invested in a high roof and a long wheel base rather than the swb van I have now. I like the idea of yours where you can locate your ladder inside the van rather than on a roof rack.

I don't know what van you have, but I would remove that plylining on the floor and paint it with Protectakote or some other floor treatment directly onto the metal. Your van looks very dry but any spilt water will get under the ply and over time start to rot it. It also would be good for rust if the van's floor in't galvanized. It will also small mouldy and damp.

I looks like you have a very small battery. You will need to get a bigger one as I doubt that that will do you a days work. If its a sealed lead acid battery then you should only use about 50% of its amp capacity before recharging.

The most critical part of this is that IBC tank you have as a storage tank. Whilst these IBC tanks are transported full of liquids on the back of a lorry, I don't believe that they are the best for a storage tank in the back of a window cleaners van. I'm also not in favour of the straps you have securing it as they aren't man enough to hold that tank in an accident. I also wouldn't trust those load restraint hooks in the floor as an anchor either.

There was a 'minor' accident in Norfork about 14 months ago between 3 cars. Not much detail was released about the accident, but one of the vehicles involved was a VW Caddy van used by a window cleaner with a tank in the back. In the accident his tank apparently slid forward and crushed him to death. The others escaped injury.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/man-in-his-20s-dies-in-a1067-collision-1-5277880

This was reported on the other forum and one of the reliable poster posted

"Been told by a friend of the deceased he was 23 and it was a wydale tank strapped in using straps. That's all I know."

Personally, I wouldn't advise using straps.

Another issue you always have to consider when fitting a tank is maximum axle weights. You maybe well within the payload limit of your van, but you could still overload your front axle with a tank placed well forward. For example, my SWB Boxer is a 333 model with a 1400+kg payload. A fully filled 650 liter tank across the bulkhead will over load the front axle with two operators in the front and a full tank of diesel.

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You have to consider the engine is over the fron axle too, I think it was you spruce who adviced me with mine. I think you gave me a formula to use to work out where best to load the weight.

If you must use the Ibc get a frame on it and bolt it to the floor and throw some baffle balls in it.

I see a local company near me with multiple vans with them strapped in, it's a death trap.

adamangler said:

If you must use the Ibc get a frame on it and bolt it to the floor and throw some baffle balls in it.

I see a local company near me with multiple vans with them strapped in, it's a death trap.

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We have the same with a local window cleaning business here. Everytime is see their systems when the back doors are open I get a chill down my spine.

In the early days Ionics used these tanks but made a much more robust tank frame.

I could go with an IBC tank and current frame @Dirty dan, but it must be properly secured to the van's floor and chassis and as you say @adamangler, have baffles balls inside. Ionics used to use upright drain pipe in their original ones to stop the water sloshing about.

When we are carrying a lot of water our driving habits have to change. We have to treat every other driver on the road as an idiot (including ourselves) and be prepared for the unexpected every driving moment. Just because the traffic light is in our favour doesn't mean another driver won't jump the red light against them.

The position of that pump should be alright @paul alan provided all the pipework to the pump from the tank is properly sealed to prevent air can't being sucked in. What I don't see is a pump prefilter which I would recommend.

ive seen loads of window cleaning companies with them IBC tanks in the back of their vans,i dont think its against the law......

dazmond said:

ive seen loads of window cleaning companies with them IBC tanks in the back of their vans,i dont think its against the law......

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Yeah I have seen lot of nationals with ibc tanks in the rear

Thanks for the info and advicevguys, gonna take it all on board. Just to clarify a few things though, I've got the tank baffled using corrugated drainage tubing, it's half full with that, i won't be filling tank to full capacity. The straps on tank are rated to hold the weight I have but I will put more in and I'll also put more anchorage in rather than just the 6 anchor bolts in the floor. I have a pipe coming from bottom of tank going through to di then through to pump, fitter at window cleaning warehouse (they are only located about 2 miles away from me) said the pump was fine where it is if I fit a non return valve on there which I've done. The pipe going in through top of tank is just the filling point, not the outlet. Point taken about the floor and I do agree but cash flow stops me sorting that at the moment but I will be dealing it when the chance comes and sealing it properly.

Spruce, what do you mean about a pump pre filter? What am I missing? 

dazmond said:

ive seen loads of window cleaning companies with them IBC tanks in the back of their vans,i dont think its against the law......

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No its not against the law to transport one or use one in the back of your van. Its how its secured that the important thing.

I did mention on a later post that I had no issue with using and IBC tank. "I could go with an IBC tank and current frame @Dirty dan, but it must be properly secured to the van's floor and chassis and as you say @adamangler, have baffles balls inside. Ionics used to use upright drain pipe in their original ones to stop the water sloshing about."

I believe that this subject of a correctly secured and safe tank is also important to you Daz. You purchased a cash tested tank frame for your 500 liter tank from Purefreedom

and had it securely fitted into your van by your local mechanic. I applaud you for that because that's the correct way of doing it. Ratchet straps are fine as long as they are robust enough and that that are properly secured/fitted as yours are.

Dirty dan said:

Thanks for the info and advicevguys, gonna take it all on board. Just to clarify a few things though, I've got the tank baffled using corrugated drainage tubing, it's half full with that, i won't be filling tank to full capacity. The straps on tank are rated to hold the weight I have but I will put more in and I'll also put more anchorage in rather than just the 6 anchor bolts in the floor. I have a pipe coming from bottom of tank going through to di then through to pump, fitter at window cleaning warehouse (they are only located about 2 miles away from me) said the pump was fine where it is if I fit a non return valve on there which I've done. The pipe going in through top of tank is just the filling point, not the outlet. Point taken about the floor and I do agree but cash flow stops me sorting that at the moment but I will be dealing it when the chance comes and sealing it properly.

Spruce, what do you mean about a pump pre filter? What am I missing? 

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Sorry,

Should have written pre pump filter not pump prefilter.

We use these on our Shurflo pumps. They screw onto the inlet side of the pump.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GENUINE-Shurflo-Water-Pump-Inline-Water-Filter-1-2-BSP-Wing-Nut-to1-2-BSP-Male/283258261068?hash=item41f3820e4c:g:gnQAAOSwCGVX2GHm:rk:7f:0

I already have a filter like that on there, you can see it just under the pump, but water goes through Di first so I was wondering should I put the pre pump filter before the Di instead of after maybe?

Dirty dan said:

I already have a filter like that on there, you can see it just under the pump, but water goes through Di first so I was wondering should I put the pre pump filter before the Di instead of after maybe?

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Tank, filter, pump, di then hose reel is the preferred sequence.

I’ve got the pump and di the wrong way round then, I’ll change that soon then, I’ve also ordered a refurbished di vessel to use as a pre filter filter, that should be here by end of next week, someone mentioned that in this thread, sounded like a good idea

Dirty dan said:

I’ve got the pump and di the wrong way round then, I’ll change that soon then, I’ve also ordered a refurbished di vessel to use as a pre filter filter, that should be here by end of next week, someone mentioned that in this thread, sounded like a good idea

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Any reason for doing this may I ask?

Are you just di only or do you have an r/o tucked away elsewhere?

Was told that having another filter and using that with old resin first makes new resin in second filter last longer. 

And window cleaning warehouse said there is no need for ro as we live in soft water area

Dirty dan said:

Was told that having another filter and using that with old resin first makes new resin in second filter last longer. 

And window cleaning warehouse said there is no need for ro as we live in soft water area

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Do you know your exact TDS using a meter?

Yes, my tds meter shows anywhere between 65 to 70

Dirty dan said:

Was told that having another filter and using that with old resin first makes new resin in second filter last longer. 

And window cleaning warehouse said there is no need for ro as we live in soft water area

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So you are going to double di which is a good idea. You will definitely need to fit both di's after the pump, so you are pushing water rather than sucking it through both vessels.

Well ive had 2 days off and I’ve almost finished getting the floor covered, had fun getting covered in resin!! 

But the paint really tidies the place up a bit.

Also took advice on getting the bigger battery, all wired up and it’s lasting a lot longer now.

The pump has now moved closer to the tank and noticed that I don’t need as much power for a good flow.

Dirty dan said:

Well ive had 2 days off and I’ve almost finished getting the floor covered, had fun getting covered in resin!! 

But the paint really tidies the place up a bit.

Also took advice on getting the bigger battery, all wired up and it’s lasting a lot longer now.

The pump has now moved closer to the tank and noticed that I don’t need as much power for a good flow.

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Please show us how you have secured your tank as thats the most important thing.

There are companies moving these IBC's up and down the country everyday. Not sure how they safely secure them. They must be relatively safe.

I did read somewhere that due to the IBC tank being manufactured out of a thin plastic that in a collision its safer as the tank will shatter, whereas with the tanks we tend to use which are a lot stronger and don't shatter and they are more dangerous because of this...If not securely fitted.