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H MAN

Water fed rinse bar any good or marketing scam??



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H MAN
See just about every manufacture has a rinse bar of some sorts are they really necessary. :1f644:
In the video using an old pole along with and Reach-It brush got when they first started.
All you have to do is use it side ways and scrubs / rinsed in one go.
No need to get pressure pumps and use more water then you need.
Having tubing and push connections all over your brushes.
Also take note have a simple ON/OFF switch for the water no tugging on the pole!!
Keep it basic.
Use your WFP the easy way. :1f609:
 
 
Edited by H MAN

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spruce
7 hours ago, H MAN said:
See just about every manufacture has a rinse bar of some sorts are they really necessary. :1f644:
In the video using an old pole along with and Reach-It brush got when they first started.
All you have to do is use it side ways and scrubs / rinsed in one go.
No need to get pressure pumps and use more water then you need.
Having tubing and push connections all over your brushes.
Also take note have a simple ON/OFF switch for the water no tugging on the pole!!
Keep it basic.
Use your WFP the easy way. :1f609:
 
 

 

One of the things you will find is that its very difficult the 'scrub' an upstairs window on the first and second floor in the UK sidewards. There is a very good reason why just about everyone I have ever seen cleaning windows with a pole does vertical strokes.

 

Second, we don't lean our brush head bristle side up against the brick wall and then proceed to clean the next window. Any grit from the bricks can potentially scratch the glass.

 

There's an old saying; whats one man's meat is another man's poison. What some will find as a cleaning aid, others won't. Good thing we aren't robots.

 

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant

Totally different environment over here with regards to cleaning, rinse bars have been doing the rounds for almost 3 years now I really don't see the appeal or practicality on residential houses in the UK as we have some many variations but more so with new builds having trickle vents as standard an over the brush rinse bar would be more hassle 

I have two 0.9mm pencil jets fitted to my brush which works great with a good flow rate and rinse and decided a try out 4 jets they lasted minutes as I had to almost double the setting on my flow controller and the rinse and flow rate was way to slow for me, to me they will simply fade away after a small number have tried them. 

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Nudel

I'll take my tubeless carbon pole and univalve any day over having hose all over the outside of the pole.

 

Sideways motion is fine, but I find it much more strenuous. One vertical scrub first and then going on the glass in a sweeping motion downwards with a swivel and four 100degree fan jets sorts out the rinsing for me.

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H MAN

Yes will have show how it goes higher windows doing the sideways motion.

All know it is easier then pushing pole up/down all day.

And all you need is pencil jets at low pressure to get a rinse as your scrubbing. 

 

 

 

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Pjj

Personaly I don’t like rinse bars at all I found the ones on top of the brush hit the wall above the window ,and spray water on the wall bringing dirt from the wall onto the glass, and the ones in the centre of the brush catch the sill when doing the edge of the sill if that makes sense , we just stick to 2mm pencil jets . With regards to cleaning a window sideways there are some that you have to do that way but 99% of the time up and down is the preferred method for us , it’s also a lot quicker 

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Dave B
5 hours ago, Iron Giant said:

Totally different environment over here with regards to cleaning, rinse bars have been doing the rounds for almost 3 years now I really don't see the appeal or practicality on residential houses in the UK as we have some many variations but more so with new builds having trickle vents as standard an over the brush rinse bar would be more hassle 

I have two 0.9mm pencil jets fitted to my brush which works great with a good flow rate and rinse and decided a try out 4 jets they lasted minutes as I had to almost double the setting on my flow controller and the rinse and flow rate was way to slow for me, to me they will simply fade away after a small number have tried them. 

Thanks to your recommendation I use those jets now

I am mostly using a 35cm ultimate brush with 4 of them in and my bacjpack in full flow and absolutely no need to rinse anything which actually saves me water from using 2 on a smaller brush

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Iron Giant
2 hours ago, Dave B said:

Thanks to your recommendation I use those jets now

I am mostly using a 35cm ultimate brush with 4 of them in and my bacjpack in full flow and absolutely no need to rinse anything which actually saves me water from using 2 on a smaller brush



Good to know mate I may try 4 jets again but on my Supreme, I assume you have been really busy as you've not been on in a while, hope all is good with you and you're doing well 

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Dave B

It's been a bit mental mate

At the point I'm looking for an employee now as I can't cope on my own anymore 

Stopped actively looking for work for a couple of weeks now to give me some breathing space while I sort things out

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Tuffers
2 hours ago, Dave B said:

It's been a bit mental mate

At the point I'm looking for an employee now as I can't cope on my own anymore 

Stopped actively looking for work for a couple of weeks now to give me some breathing space while I sort things out

 

Well done Dave. What happened to your mate that use deodorant to post on here? Not seen him on here for a while.

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spruce
11 hours ago, H MAN said:

Yes will have show how it goes higher windows doing the sideways motion.

All know it is easier then pushing pole up/down all day.

And all you need is pencil jets at low pressure to get a rinse as your scrubbing. 

 

 

 

 

 

I tried your vertical brush scrubbing without rinsing on several down stairs windows today. I had a reasonably high flow and used my Gardiner Dupont bristle brush that sheds water. 2mm pencil jets are fitted to this brush.

I noticed that the window wasn't rinsed to my standards as it was full of tiny bits of grit that showed up on the bleeding down windows after a few minutes. These bits of grit could be clearly seen when looking at the glass at the 'right' angle. They can be clearly seen by the way the water bleds down around each side of them.

 

Now this is a real problem for us on the coast as these bits seem to stick to the glass.

 

I believe you must have a similar problem in WA. I was watching the 12 hour endurance race at Bathurst Raceway a couple of weekends ago live and it was hot and dusty. I would imagine you would have issues with these little bits of grit particles as well.

 

There are some window cleaners who don't stay around long enough to check their cleaning results but I do. In the 15 years we have been wfp I have never inspected the window after its dried to see if these bits of grit can be seen by the customer looking out of the window. I would never dare leave a window like that in the off chance the customer won't notice it. I remember one newbie once asked about these little bits of grit left behind when he rinsed on the glass. One of the responders told him not to worry about them as the wind blew them away when the glass dried.

 

But according to me, if I leave that window without getting rid of the grit particles, then I haven't done my job properly.

 

I do have a overspray rinse bar from Gardiners with 2 fan jets. I like the concept of the micro jet rinse water following behind the brush but I'm yet to decide to add a rinse bar with my next order or not. My feeling is that the 'pencil' jets would be better than fan jets but would need to be used with a swivel which I would need to update to Quickloq. The other thing was one of the users sent a video clip of the rinse bar in action and a couple of the jets were angled higher than the others.

 

With the fan jetted rinse bar I have found that vertical strokes work well if working the brush in a large O shape moving from left to right so the down stoke on the glass will never be touched again by the brush's bristles. What I don't like about the fan jets is that the spray isn't controlled.

 

I'm not sure that your description of the 'rinse bar any good or a marketing scam' is fair. It could well be that you Australians use the word scam differently to the Brits or in my case South Africans. Nobody is tricking anyone it buying a rubbish product in the same way nobody is forcing me to buy a swivel. I have read the comments of those who love swivels and those who don't. I've bought several over the years and can honestly say they don't 'float my boat.' But I would never call them a marketing scam, would you? 

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant
3 hours ago, Dave B said:

It's been a bit mental mate

At the point I'm looking for an employee now as I can't cope on my own anymore 

Stopped actively looking for work for a couple of weeks now to give me some breathing space while I sort things out


Good to hear I know you had plans to expand so glad to know you are getting there, best of luck in finding the best employee. Still an everyday Junglist? I have been listening to Shy Fx really like his new track as it's more like jungle than some other tracks to get mainstream play   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhPjmI44y2Y he is on at Newcastle  on the 26th club doesn't open till 11pm then on till 4am on a Tuesday as too old  😱 🤣

Edited by Iron Giant

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H MAN
49 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

 

I tried your vertical brush scrubbing without rinsing on several down stairs windows today. I had a reasonably high flow and used my Gardiner Dupont bristle brush that sheds water. 2mm pencil jets are fitted to this brush.

I noticed that the window wasn't rinsed to my standards as it was full of tiny bits of grit that showed up on the bleeding down windows after a few minutes. These bits of grit could be clearly seen when looking at the glass at the 'right' angle. They can be clearly seen by the way the water bleds down around each side of them.

 

Now this is a real problem for us on the coast as these bits seem to stick to the glass.

 

I believe you must have a similar problem in WA. I was watching the 12 hour endurance race at Bathurst Raceway a couple of weekends ago live and it was hot and dusty. I would imagine you would have issues with these little bits of grit particles as well.

 

There are some window cleaners who don't stay around long enough to check their cleaning results but I do. In the 15 years we have been wfp I have never inspected the window after its dried to see if these bits of grit can be seen by the customer looking out of the window. I would never dare leave a window like that in the off chance the customer won't notice it. I remember one newbie once asked about these little bits of grit left behind when he rinsed on the glass. One of the responders told him not to worry about them as the wind blew them away when the glass dried.

 

But according to me, if I leave that window without getting rid of the grit particles, then I haven't done my job properly.

 

I do have a overspray rinse bar from Gardiners with 2 fan jets. I like the concept of the micro jet rinse water following behind the brush but I'm yet to decide to add a rinse bar with my next order or not. My feeling is that the 'pencil' jets would be better than fan jets but would need to be used with a swivel which I would need to update to Quickloq. The other thing was one of the users sent a video clip of the rinse bar in action and a couple of the jets were angled higher than the others.

 

With the fan jetted rinse bar I have found that vertical strokes work well if working the brush in a large O shape moving from left to right so the down stoke on the glass will never be touched again by the brush's bristles. What I don't like about the fan jets is that the spray isn't controlled.

 

I'm not sure that your description of the 'rinse bar any good or a marketing scam' is fair. It could well be that you Australians use the word scam differently to the Brits or in my case South Africans. Nobody is tricking anyone it buying a rubbish product in the same way nobody is forcing me to buy a swivel. I have read the comments of those who love swivels and those who don't. I've bought several over the years and can honestly say they don't 'float my boat.' But I would never call them a marketing scam, would you? 

Yes vertical strokes work well.

But it is also labour intensive up/down motion lifting the pole up/down hundreds times a day.

Sideways strokes aluminates this  and scrubs.cleans, rinses  better then vertical strokes . In My Opinion .

Once you have the correct swivel movement on your pole.

 

 

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adamangler

I recently bought a Gardiner's rinse bar to try having only used pencils before.

 

I also bought some 100 degree fan jets which I've also never used, these are ridiculously loud on the glass so not wanting to scare anyone to death I quickly dismissed these...not only that but they spray mist everyway, frames, clothes etc lol. Good on Fsg though.

 

Anyway back to rinse bars, I really like them on upstairs windows allowing me to rinse on the glass however they are really awkward to use on downstairs windows, in order to rinse on and keep the brush horizontal you have to angle the brush head really far up which just feels horrible. I tried it with a swivel but it doesnt help any on downstairs windows.

 

I tend to clean side on or about _5 degrees on downstairs and I find a good flow from pencils easier and faster.

 

In the end I kept the rinse bar on my longer pole and my everyday 18 pole I have pencils.

 

I also bought a 7lpm pump run flat out with no controller, this setup with pencils gets the job done much faster.

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Dave B
3 hours ago, Tuffers said:

 

Well done Dave. What happened to your mate that use deodorant to post on here? Not seen him on here for a while.

??? You lost me tuffers ? ?

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Dave B
2 hours ago, Iron Giant said:


Good to hear I know you had plans to expand so glad to know you are getting there, best of luck in finding the best employee. Still an everyday Junglist? I have been listening to Shy Fx really like his new track as it's more like jungle than some other tracks to get mainstream play   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhPjmI44y2Y he is on at Newcastle  on the 26th club doesn't open till 11pm then on till 4am on a Tuesday as too old  😱 🤣

Always will be mate

I've been listening to a lot of proper old school stuff like ram trilogy, ed rush & optical etc

This is on at the moment 

 

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Tuffers
23 minutes ago, Dave B said:

??? You lost me tuffers ? ?

 

The lad with a blue van and loads of kids who lived near you. I forget his name.

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Dave B

Aah Neil

He is fine mate just super busy

I see him every few days 

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Eric Gilliand

Scam? For goodness sake they’re simply another way of applying water to the glass and now that manufacturers are actually offering properly designed solutions as opposed to a piece of PVC hose with holes punched in it or a reclaimed spare part from a wet and dry vacuum, they are a credible option to consider. Ive been using them since the original Wagtail Jetstream. I have them on various Constructor brushes, a Tucker and a Gardiner. The one essential that I can’t state strongly enough is that they MUST be used in conjunction with a well designed pivot. That way you can control the rinse by utilising angles and tilt to keep the rinse contained on the glass and avoid overspray onto the frames, especially top frame. ( My personal favourite is Gardiner Pivot with the angled brush plate). The number of jets, size of holes and flow rate must be configured for the brush and my experience with the Tucker and the Gardiner DuPont is that their bars have too many holes...overkill! and to be fair Reach-its Hydroblade is overkill as well...I put a spot of glue in every second and ensure that holes are 0.8-1mm. Haven’t done this with the Tucker or the Gardiner because to be fair I don’t use them much. I find the length of bristle on both brushes combined with the bars aren’t quite right. Would love to see a Gardiner DuPont with outer bristles at about 3.5cm. This would make them more aggressive and get the spray closer to the glass thereby allowing more control. By the by I’m in NZ. Most homes have larger glass than the average UK home so I in no way disagree with anyone else’s findings or preferences. 

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spruce
8 hours ago, adamangler said:

I recently bought a Gardiner's rinse bar to try having only used pencils before.

 

I also bought some 100 degree fan jets which I've also never used, these are ridiculously loud on the glass so not wanting to scare anyone to death I quickly dismissed these...not only that but they spray mist everyway, frames, clothes etc lol. Good on Fsg though.

 

Anyway back to rinse bars, I really like them on upstairs windows allowing me to rinse on the glass however they are really awkward to use on downstairs windows, in order to rinse on and keep the brush horizontal you have to angle the brush head really far up which just feels horrible. I tried it with a swivel but it doesnt help any on downstairs windows.

 

I tend to clean side on or about _5 degrees on downstairs and I find a good flow from pencils easier and faster.

 

In the end I kept the rinse bar on my longer pole and my everyday 18 pole I have pencils.

 

I also bought a 7lpm pump run flat out with no controller, this setup with pencils gets the job done much faster.

 

Actually @H MAN is actually banging on about his swivel again. He has no idea about cleaning windows at height because there are no windows at height where he lives. What they call houses in Australia is what we refer to bungalows in the UK. A while back Herman used the same video to push his swivel invention. He has just used the same video and most of the same 'lines' to highlight that you can rinse on the glass provided you have a swivel - his swivel.

 

When I experimented with his idea yesterday I was on downstairs windows and was holding the pole horizontally to get the same effect and I could clearly see in that rinsing vertically on the glass doesn't rinse any better than vertical strokes with standard pencil jets in the brush stock. I had to go back and clean those windows again.

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spruce
34 minutes ago, Eric Gilliand said:

Scam? For goodness sake they’re simply another way of applying water to the glass and now that manufacturers are actually offering properly designed solutions as opposed to a piece of PVC hose with holes punched in it or a reclaimed spare part from a wet and dry vacuum, they are a credible option to consider. Ive been using them since the original Wagtail Jetstream. I have them on various Constructor brushes, a Tucker and a Gardiner. The one essential that I can’t state strongly enough is that they MUST be used in conjunction with a well designed pivot. That way you can control the rinse by utilising angles and tilt to keep the rinse contained on the glass and avoid overspray onto the frames, especially top frame. ( My personal favourite is Gardiner Pivot with the angled brush plate). The number of jets, size of holes and flow rate must be configured for the brush and my experience with the Tucker and the Gardiner DuPont is that their bars have too many holes...overkill! and to be fair Reach-its Hydroblade is overkill as well...I put a spot of glue in every second and ensure that holes are 0.8-1mm. Haven’t done this with the Tucker or the Gardiner because to be fair I don’t use them much. I find the length of bristle on both brushes combined with the bars aren’t quite right. Would love to see a Gardiner DuPont with outer bristles at about 3.5cm. This would make them more aggressive and get the spray closer to the glass thereby allowing more control. By the by I’m in NZ. Most homes have larger glass than the average UK home so I in no way disagree with anyone else’s findings or preferences

 

I'm glad that someone else also sees the word scam meaning the same as I do. I thought that the Australians had developed a different meaning for it. (I know you aren't Australian. I even tried to do a Google search on what the word scam meant in Australia and its the same as in the UK - usually to do with extorting money from the unsuspecting.)

 

You mentioned that its about suppliers finding solutions to people's preferences. I agree. Some will like the concept of using a rinse bar, others won't.

 

I suppose its like brushes; very few of us will agree on the best ideal/brush as brush choice is a personal thing.

 

@H MAN is looking for 'airtime' to promote his swivel and using the word "scam" in his title is 'clickbait'. I have a lot of respect for Herman and his DIY solutions. But when I first read his post I didn't think it was worth my time to reply. But to save any newbies the pain of having to deal with customer complaints for believing this video as gospel, I chose to try this and watch the results. So I hope any new cleaner who is making a decision to scrub and rinse with inboard jets with brush vertically on the glass really check their results before they sign the job off and add this cleaning method to their book of flash, magic wand, cleaning techniques.

.

 

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant

@spruce I agree with you on the points you have made, what newbies need to understand also is that in a way every window is different and depending on were the job is located can have a bearing on cleaning and rinsing technique which is something you've pointed out above and this is more so in the UK not Aus 

As @H MAN is posting videos he needs to be accurate it what he is saying and doing which isn't the case in this video, no rinsing 🤔 but you are doing second passes on some panes of glass, I am cautioning you to consider before posting. 

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H MAN

Well there you go knew you all would have a say when brought up the swivel thing.

All saying you do not have to have a water rinse bar to have a good rinse.

And when you can/ or have the brush pad or any other scrubbing tool evenly flat on the surface your cleaning will always scrub better.

This is what that swivel does.

Using it side ways give you a better rinse also.

Would think it would be more difficult to do this if you have not got the tools to do this.

(Scam well it is more like a smart marketing thing.)

We have had first basic water fed brush with 2 or 4 pencil jet in them for 50 years or so.

DIYS started doing there versions of  rinse bars not that long ago.

So of cause manufactures could see $$$$ to be made.

Now you have just about every manufacture with a rinse bar, be over top, bottom, both in the middle, side brush or pad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

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H MAN
16 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:

@spruce I agree with you on the points you have made, what newbies need to understand also is that in a way every window is different and depending on were the job is located can have a bearing on cleaning and rinsing technique which is something you've pointed out above and this is more so in the UK not Aus 

As @H MAN is posting videos he needs to be accurate it what he is saying and doing which isn't the case in this video, no rinsing 🤔 but you are doing second passes on some panes of glass, I am cautioning you to consider before posting. 

So what are you going on about:1f644:

Did I say it is a one pass water feed brush??

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Eric Gilliand

Actually I don’t see it as Manufacturers ‘jumping on the bandwagon to make $$$. You of all people Herman know the cost involved in setting up molds for manufacture. Shawn Gavin will be taking a bath on his because he’s had to ditch his original alu one and re manufacture a plastic solution. On top of that he’s open offered free plastic versions to anyone who purchased an alu one (I received 2x free plastic versions and get to keep my alu ones, no questions asked). Alex has produced a very tidy solution with those very clever built in quick fits and looking at the finish there will have been a reasonable sort of investment involved. Getting $$$ in the short term I am guessing will not pay for any new Bentley’s in the garage. My guess is that their respective client bases have requested it, they’ve done their due diligence and decided to enter the arena. All good for the end user. Custom designed for respective manufacturers brushes stops the ‘frankenstein mods’ and provides an in house solution. 

Edited by Eric Gilliand

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