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Tomellis

Starting wfp with traditional looking for some advice

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Tomellis

Hello I’m a traditional window cleaner looking at starting abit of wfp, I’m happy with my rounds and just looking at getting a back pack set up just to get hard to reach windows and to use on certain houses just to be able to do abit more and save myself a little bit of time to get a few extra custom, I’ve found a set up with a di vessel (not bought yet) my water comes up as 104mg slightly hard according to my water supplier, is a di vessel good enough? Like I said just starting I’ve read abit into it but any advice would be good cheers

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Master Jedi Alejandro
9 minutes ago, Tomellis said:

Hello I’m a traditional window cleaner looking at starting abit of wfp, I’m happy with my rounds and just looking at getting a back pack set up just to get hard to reach windows and to use on certain houses just to be able to do abit more and save myself a little bit of time to get a few extra custom, I’ve found a set up with a di vessel (not bought yet) my water comes up as 104mg slightly hard according to my water supplier, is a di vessel good enough? Like I said just starting I’ve read abit into it but any advice would be good cheers

If you really are only going to use it for hard to reach windows then yes, DI will be fine (though possibly look into buying pure water).

 

Depending on budget get a CLX 27 (cheaper) or SLX 27 (Stronger/lighter). They're both https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk and best in class.

 

If you want a backpack get the Gardiner one, though many guys on here use purpose built trollies. They can advice on them. 

 

Cavat to this is most likely what will happen is you'll go "Oww I like this' and start using the pole for all the tops. Then all the bottoms. Soon you'll forget how to use a squeegee! 😜

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Marko067
4 hours ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

If you really are only going to use it for hard to reach windows then yes, DI will be fine (though possibly look into buying pure water).

 

Depending on budget get a CLX 27 (cheaper) or SLX 27 (Stronger/lighter). They're both https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk and best in class.

 

If you want a backpack get the Gardiner one, though many guys on here use purpose built trollies. They can advice on them. 

 

Cavat to this is most likely what will happen is you'll go "Oww I like this' and start using the pole for all the tops. Then all the bottoms. Soon you'll forget how to use a squeegee! 😜

 

I started with WFP 12 years ago after 30 years of treading the rungs. Major surgery to my left ankle caused me to make the change. Initially I did tops only with it and continued to trad everything at ground level to save water as I was using a 25L trolley system. However, when I started to use it on the downstairs as well, it quickly helped me improve my technique which also improved my upstairs work and considerably reduced the amount of water I was using.

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Tomellis
43 minutes ago, Marko067 said:

 

I started with WFP 12 years ago after 30 years of treading the rungs. Major surgery to my left ankle caused me to make the change. Initially I did tops only with it and continued to trad everything at ground level to save water as I was using a 25L trolley system. However, when I started to use it on the downstairs as well, it quickly helped me improve my technique which also improved my upstairs work and considerably reduced the amount of water I was using.

Yes I know I’ll end up getting into it altogher but as we all know it’s not a cheap set up, so starting of small and working my way up to a van system as having got the money to go straight in lol just wanted some advice on it as do a lot of work out in the country side where I’m having to put wood and bricks to make a even surface where a pole will obviously be a lot safer and quicker 

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Marko067

 

When you start you'll not likely look back. I had a very compact round to start with, and as it turned out never needed to make the move to a van mounted system. I still work with my 25L Pure Freedom trolley 12 years on and do very well with it, a lot better in fact than a couple of my mates working with van systems. (I'm absolutely not knocking van systems here as for most this is likely to be the best way) 

What you have to get in place is your water supply. Is there a local supplier you can purchase from reasonably? If you choose to produce it yourself the general rule seems to be that if your tap TDS is over 100ppm then an RO is your best bet as you'll go through a lot of resin. The RO should remove 95% of contaminants and the DI resin the remaining. I'm sure others will help out with more precise figures in due course. I use RO and DI filters but then my tap TDS is 400ppm most of the time.

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Tomellis
17 hours ago, Marko067 said:

 

When you start you'll not likely look back. I had a very compact round to start with, and as it turned out never needed to make the move to a van mounted system. I still work with my 25L Pure Freedom trolley 12 years on and do very well with it, a lot better in fact than a couple of my mates working with van systems. (I'm absolutely not knocking van systems here as for most this is likely to be the best way) 

What you have to get in place is your water supply. Is there a local supplier you can purchase from reasonably? If you choose to produce it yourself the general rule seems to be that if your tap TDS is over 100ppm then an RO is your best bet as you'll go through a lot of resin. The RO should remove 95% of contaminants and the DI resin the remaining. I'm sure others will help out with more precise figures in due course. I use RO and DI filters but then my tap TDS is 400ppm most of the time.

My water comes up with 104mg but not sure what TDS that actually is?

19 hours ago, Marko067 said:

 

I started with WFP 12 years ago after 30 years of treading the rungs. Major surgery to my left ankle caused me to make the change. Initially I did tops only with it and continued to trad everything at ground level to save water as I was using a 25L trolley system. However, when I started to use it on the downstairs as well, it quickly helped me improve my technique which also improved my upstairs work and considerably reduced the amount of water I was using.

How long roughly does your 25 litre last for? 1 house half house

2 minutes ago, Tomellis said:

My water comes up with 104mg but not sure what TDS that actually is?

How long roughly does your 25 litre last for? 1 house half house

From what I know I don’t think there is any pure water places near me atm but I know that spotless container company are putting some up near me but doesn’t say when, not really sure how to find out if anyone else does it near me 

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Chris34

I'm still new to wfp (17 customers 3 months in) and did a 4 bed extended semi on Friday using 40 litres.  The first time I did it I think I used 100 litres maybe more.  Once you're up to speed you should be looking at 25 litres for a 3 bed semi.

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Marko067

Quote: My water comes up with 104mg but not sure what TDS that actually is? 

I'm not sure what the 'mg' you are referring to.

Water quality is usually measured in PPM (parts per million)  

The device we use to measure it is referred to as a TDS (total dissolved solids) Meter (usually costs about £15) 

Zero parts per million which is what we aim to clean with, reads as (.000) on the meter

 

Quote: How long roughly does your 25 litre last for? 1 house half house

The more experienced you get the less you will use. For me 25L usually lasts about 30 minutes and I'm working almost constantly as I have a very compact round. I can normally do about three small unmodified 2 or 3 bed terraced houses in that time. By unmodified I mean no conservatory but may include a small front porch and or a small set of French doors at the back

 

You will use a lot of water at first. This is normal as you get rid of excess dirt and old dried soap residue from the window surrounds. Once this is removed you will naturally use less. Then as you continue to develop your technique you will come to use even less.

I probably use only one third of what I used when I started. It's very noticeable on my water bill

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Tomellis
On 19/05/2019 at 18:13, Marko067 said:

Quote: My water comes up with 104mg but not sure what TDS that actually is? 

I'm not sure what the 'mg' you are referring to.

Water quality is usually measured in PPM (parts per million)  

The device we use to measure it is referred to as a TDS (total dissolved solids) Meter (usually costs about £15) 

Zero parts per million which is what we aim to clean with, reads as (.000) on the meter

 

Quote: How long roughly does your 25 litre last for? 1 house half house

The more experienced you get the less you will use. For me 25L usually lasts about 30 minutes and I'm working almost constantly as I have a very compact round. I can normally do about three small unmodified 2 or 3 bed terraced houses in that time. By unmodified I mean no conservatory but may include a small front porch and or a small set of French doors at the back

 

You will use a lot of water at first. This is normal as you get rid of excess dirt and old dried soap residue from the window surrounds. Once this is removed you will naturally use less. Then as you continue to develop your technique you will come to use even less.

I probably use only one third of what I used when I started. It's very noticeable on my water bill

104mg is aparently the same as 104ppm so slightly hard, is there any good YouTube channels etc to learn good techniques that you know off? Obviously going to be practicing on my own house and family members 

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Marko067

If you go on YouTube and do a search for 'water fed pole window cleaning' there's a load of stuff on there. But you can't beat practice. It all felt awkward to me at first but you soon develop a 'method.' And once you settle in you'll also find that your method will likely evolve.

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Tango
On 19/05/2019 at 18:13, Marko067 said:

 

Quote: How long roughly does your 25 litre last for? 1 house half house

The more experienced you get the less you will use. For me 25L usually lasts about 30 minutes and I'm working almost constantly as I have a very compact round. I can normally do about three small unmodified 2 or 3 bed terraced houses in that time. By unmodified I mean no conservatory but may include a small front porch and or a small set of French doors at the back

 

You will use a lot of water at first. This is normal as you get rid of excess dirt and old dried soap residue from the window surrounds. Once this is removed you will naturally use less. Then as you continue to develop your technique you will come to use even less.

I probably use only one third of what I used when I started. It's very noticeable on my water bill

 

I remember the first few houses I did... OMG the amount of water I used lol. Now I manage most places on just the back pack quite easily. I read that other back pack users keep it turned up to the max - no way could 25L last 30 minutes at that speed so i keep mine turned down (similar flow to our van based windy) and only turn it up for a rinse. That works well enough for me.

 

On 18/05/2019 at 10:26, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Cavat to this is most likely what will happen is you'll go "Oww I like this' and start using the pole for all the tops. Then all the bottoms. Soon you'll forget how to use a squeegee! 😜

 

 

Do what I do then lol (and yes I'm serious). Use a brush from a dustpan & brush set for the lower windows (£1 in most places now). Kinda feels like trad but with the pure instead. Works the same as a pole, a lot lighter, a lot more maneuverable (especially in narrow alleys), a lot more accurate and a LOT quicker than using a pole. I can get a ground floor window done in under 15 seconds like that. I keep the pole in my left hand to spray the pure water but in my right i'm washing the windows with the hand brush (until i fit hose pipe and a jet to the hand brush then i won't even use the pole). I tend to only use the pole now for high windows - unless the customer is about then i'll use the pole on lower ones just so they think they're getting their moneys worth lol. Need to get myself a CLX-4 really so i can reach over bushes etc but until then the hand brush works well enough for me.

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Master Jedi Alejandro
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tango said:

Do what I do then lol (and yes I'm serious). Use a brush from a dustpan & brush set for the lower windows (£1 in most places now). Kinda feels like trad but with the pure instead. Works the same as a pole, a lot lighter, a lot more maneuverable (especially in narrow alleys), a lot more accurate and a LOT quicker than using a pole. I can get a ground floor window done in under 15 seconds like that. I keep the pole in my left hand to spray the pure water but in my right i'm washing the windows with the hand brush (until i fit hose pipe and a jet to the hand brush then i won't even use the pole). I tend to only use the pole now for high windows - unless the customer is about then i'll use the pole on lower ones just so they think they're getting their moneys worth lol. Need to get myself a CLX-4 really so i can reach over bushes etc but until then the hand brush works well enough for me.

Wait, what, seriously? Your arm must get soaking! And how long does it take you to do the bottoms like that? Honestly think your making a rod for your own back, mate. I know you’ve got limited water supply but I’m right in saying your just new, yeah? Your most likely still a lot slower but than you ought to be, without realising it. Soon you’ll be able to work that backpack on full power, tops and bottoms and barely used a quarter. Do you have any sort of valve fitted? 😃

Edited by Master Jedi Alejandro

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Marko067
2 hours ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Wait, what, seriously? Your arm must get soaking! And how long does it take you to do the bottoms like that? Honestly think your making a rod for your own back, mate. I know you’ve got limited water supply but I’m right in saying your just new, yeah? Your most likely still a lot slower but than you ought to be, without realising it. Soon you’ll be able to work that backpack on full power, tops and bottoms and barely used a quarter. Do you have any sort of valve fitted? 😃

 

I take the brush off my pole to do one job by hand down the side off a conny and I usually get a very wet arm doing that. I also tried it doing some flat fronts on a narrow landing once and got drowned doing that too.

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Tango
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Wait, what, seriously? Your arm must get soaking! And how long does it take you to do the bottoms like that? Honestly think your making a rod for your own back, mate. I know you’ve got limited water supply but I’m right in saying your just new, yeah? Your most likely still a lot slower but than you ought to be, without realising it. Soon you’ll be able to work that backpack on full power, tops and bottoms and barely used a quarter. Do you have any sort of valve fitted? 😃

 

Like i said in my previous reply i can have a window done in under 15 seconds like that. No, don't get a wet arm at all - the water runs down the glass lol. Yeah it's an unconventional idea but it works and it works well. I also noticed that I'm not the first with this sort of idea - Nudel does similar:

 

As for speed, remember yes I'm new and so are most of my custys - first cleans etc so they will take longer. My maintenance cleans i'd say i'm doing ok at speed wise now.

 

Just look in the DIY forum - there's all sorts of people using all sorts of hacks including one guy carrying a plastic bag of water in a back pack! At least a brush is a brush! I'll post imagery at some point..

 

No, no valve fitted so i do get a lot of wastage like that at times when i can't reach the BP switch. When my BP warranty runs out I'm going to fit a remote control to it. Univalve is a great idea but for my little BP I'd prefer not to strain the pump until i've got a spare held in reserve.

Edited by Tango

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R wcs
13 hours ago, Tango said:

 

I remember the first few houses I did... OMG the amount of water I used lol. Now I manage most places on just the back pack quite easily. I read that other back pack users keep it turned up to the max - no way could 25L last 30 minutes at that speed so i keep mine turned down (similar flow to our van based windy) and only turn it up for a rinse. That works well enough for me.

 

 

 

Do what I do then lol (and yes I'm serious). Use a brush from a dustpan & brush set for the lower windows (£1 in most places now). Kinda feels like trad but with the pure instead. Works the same as a pole, a lot lighter, a lot more maneuverable (especially in narrow alleys), a lot more accurate and a LOT quicker than using a pole. I can get a ground floor window done in under 15 seconds like that. I keep the pole in my left hand to spray the pure water but in my right i'm washing the windows with the hand brush (until i fit hose pipe and a jet to the hand brush then i won't even use the pole). I tend to only use the pole now for high windows - unless the customer is about then i'll use the pole on lower ones just so they think they're getting their moneys worth lol. Need to get myself a CLX-4 really so i can reach over bushes etc but until then the hand brush works well enough for me.

Hand brush , ? Pole in one hand and spraying the window when u finish brushing it with a hand brush ? 

 

Why don’t you just use brush what’s on the pole ?? 

 

 

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Tango
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, R wcs said:

Why don’t you just use brush what’s on the pole ?? 

 

15 hours ago, Tango said:

Works the same as a pole, a lot lighter, a lot more maneuverable (especially in narrow alleys), a lot more accurate and a LOT quicker than using a pole.

 

Think that sums it up matey. If you take a look at the link i posted in my second reply you'll see that i'm not the only one who had the idea and went with it. On ground floor windows it really does do an awesome job - try it (using a nice new clean brush obviously).

 

If someone has thought of something and you think it's unconventional that doesn't mean it should be scoffed at. Window cleaners were all trad once and then this new water fed pole thing came along. I suspect that made people like you question it too - now it's common place. With that in mind, it's probably best not to dismiss the hand brush idea too quickly :1f609: I'll post images at some point..

Edited by Tango

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Chris34

I'm new to window cleaning but highly experienced in cleaning in general.  I haven't looked into it but I have thought that something using just a brush without a pole would be a lot faster and easier on some downstairs windows.  So no handle, just the brush head with a hose attached.  

 

Maybe even something like a brush with a 10 inch long handle on one edge of the brush, then you can use the handle just to reach the top edge of the window frame and then flip the brush the other way so the handle runs parallel to your arm and use the brush as if it were a cloth to clean the rest of the window.  

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R wcs
17 minutes ago, Tango said:

 

 

Think that sums it up matey. If you take a look at the link i posted in my second reply you'll see that i'm not the only one who had the idea and went with it. On ground floor windows it really does do an awesome job - try it (using a nice new clean brush obviously).

 

If someone has thought of something and you think it's unconventional that doesn't mean it should be scoffed at. Window cleaners were all trad once and then this new water fed pole thing came along. I suspect that made people like you question it too - now it's common place. With that in mind, it's probably best not to dismiss the hand brush idea too quickly :1f609: I'll post images at some point..

Your the person who struggles with just about everything , WINDOW CLEANING

 

what don’t you follow suit , and am sure you’ll not be on here making posts 

 

HELP ME I NEED THIS , I NEED THAT

 

where my arms go my pole goes , no need for extra brushes , maybe double side brush ?? Top and bottom windows done with different sides 

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wee man
16 hours ago, Tango said:

 

I remember the first few houses I did... OMG the amount of water I used lol. Now I manage most places on just the back pack quite easily. I read that other back pack users keep it turned up to the max - no way could 25L last 30 minutes at that speed so i keep mine turned down (similar flow to our van based windy) and only turn it up for a rinse. That works well enough for me.

 

 

 

Do what I do then lol (and yes I'm serious). Use a brush from a dustpan & brush set for the lower windows (£1 in most places now). Kinda feels like trad but with the pure instead. Works the same as a pole, a lot lighter, a lot more maneuverable (especially in narrow alleys), a lot more accurate and a LOT quicker than using a pole. I can get a ground floor window done in under 15 seconds like that. I keep the pole in my left hand to spray the pure water but in my right i'm washing the windows with the hand brush (until i fit hose pipe and a jet to the hand brush then i won't even use the pole). I tend to only use the pole now for high windows - unless the customer is about then i'll use the pole on lower ones just so they think they're getting their moneys worth lol. Need to get myself a CLX-4 really so i can reach over bushes etc but until then the hand brush works well enough for me.

You do realise that the brushes on the poles are made for window cleaning and the brush your using is for the floor.  I wouldn't be surprised if you scratched a few windows.

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Tango
2 hours ago, R wcs said:

Your the person who struggles with just about everything , WINDOW CLEANING

 

what don’t you follow suit , and am sure you’ll not be on here making posts 

 

HELP ME I NEED THIS , I NEED THAT

 

where my arms go my pole goes , no need for extra brushes , maybe double side brush ?? Top and bottom windows done with different sides 

 

Whats your problem? So I posted a topic asking for advice about a water SUPPLY. Is that really a big deal to you? - Plenty of other people have asked similar questions about where to source their RO water too. So come on, what else have i needed? - So I posted about 2 customers doing bank transfers, dealing with dog poo customers and window cleaners being all over the place. Wow. A window cleaner on a window cleaning forum discussing window cleaning - whatever flaming next?!!! 

 

1 hour ago, wee man said:

You do realise that the brushes on the poles are made for window cleaning and the brush your using is for the floor.  I wouldn't be surprised if you scratched a few windows.

 

While you raise a valid point about the hand brush being for floors (and worktops and whatever else collects dust), I wouldn't use it unless I had tested it myself first. The bristles are actually softer than those on my medium Gardiner brush. I've also tested it on the garage door and two of our cars.

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steve garwood

Thinking of getting rid of my xtreme poles and using a toothbrush instead 👍

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Tango
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, steve garwood said:

Thinking of getting rid of my xtreme poles and using a toothbrush instead 👍

 

You might have a problem converting that to WF lol

 

I did that today with my brush - pics to follow later

Edited by Tango

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Part Timer
1 hour ago, steve garwood said:

Thinking of getting rid of my xtreme poles and using a toothbrush instead 👍

Don't tell @Den, he'll be asking you questions to see if it will save his dodgy shoulder. 

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R wcs
28 minutes ago, steve garwood said:

Thinking of getting rid of my xtreme poles and using a toothbrush instead 👍

Tango has already done that ,, he’s put a rinse bar on Aswell , he only uses it clean letter box and door handles 

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Tango
51 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

Don't tell @Den, he'll be asking you questions to see if it will save his dodgy shoulder. 

 

He's got a wicked retractable hose setup on his trolleys though..  I gotta get me one of those!

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