Undercut (not the issue) but how's the other guy doing it?

A few weeks back I cleaned a conny roof, windows, gutter etc for an old lady who has multiple properties. Charged her £50, took me 3 hours.. I know, shameful.. no comments please..

Anyway she then asked me to quote her home for the fascias, gutters, windows and her conny roof. The conny is sandwiched between two brick walls. and naturally both sides of the roof slope towards them. She showed me the greenery from the upstairs window and that was that - I didn't want the conny job. Quoted her £40 for all the rest though which I felt was a fair price - £15 for the windows, £25 for the fascias and gutters.

Now I 'fess that I did say to her she might find another windy who's got better equipment than me (my clx is heavy and not great for her conny lol) and in fairness did suggest she try someone else for her conny. I really didn't want that conny roof. So the other day she sends me a text. saying she's cancelling my windows and fascias clean as she's found someone else to do the entire lot including the conny roof and he's done her a better price than me. No great surprise she found someone else, I did kinda encourage it to be fair...

But how the hell can someone do a conny roof, fascias, gutters AND the windows for less than £40? Apparently he claims to have all the right equipment for conny roofs too! At less than forty quid I really can't understand this other blokes margins.

Tango said:

A few weeks back I cleaned a conny roof, windows, gutter etc for an old lady who has multiple properties. Charged her £50, took me 3 hours.. I know, shameful.. no comments please..

Anyway she then asked me to quote her home for the fascias, gutters, windows and her conny roof. The conny is sandwiched between two brick walls. and naturally both sides of the roof slope towards them. She showed me the greenery from the upstairs window and that was that - I didn't want the conny job. Quoted her £40 for all the rest though which I felt was a fair price - £15 for the windows, £25 for the fascias and gutters.

Now I 'fess that I did say to her she might find another windy who's got better equipment than me (my clx is heavy and not great for her conny lol) and in fairness did suggest she try someone else for her conny. I really didn't want that conny roof. So the other day she sends me a text. saying she's cancelling my windows and fascias clean as she's found someone else to do the entire lot including the conny roof and he's done her a better price than me. No great surprise she found someone else, I did kinda encourage it to be fair...

But how the hell can someone do a conny roof, fascias, gutters AND the windows for less than £40? Apparently he claims to have all the right equipment for conny roofs too! At less than forty quid I really can't understand this other blokes margins.

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You might as well start canvassing for the other guy.

He's probably said £80 for the roof or £110 all in.

Why are you quoting so cheap to get work while turning it down at the same time.

Don't turn it down, just quote higher and then it's worthwhile.

To be fair i did kinda want the windows but not the fascias / gutters so i wasn't overly fussed about that job anyway - she's not a regular, just a one time abuser who seems to know several other windys and has a list of those she doesn't like - needless to say i wasn't too bothered.

The conny was going to be a pain in the butt. I didn't even want to quote it - not even for mega money. If you saw it, you'd know why!

Point taken about the money but she gave the distinct impression that he was charging less than me for everything. I was just curious how someone could do it all for less than forty quid!

They're probably not doing it for less than £40, customer is probably lying.  But even if they were they wouldn't be in the game for long, just leave them to it.

I did a conny roof the other month for £130, customer reckoned last window cleaner did it for £15   :1f602:   She was shocked at my price but I did explain that it's a lot of work and showed her the photos of the areas to be cleaned to show her how bad it was.  

If you struggle to get a higher price it might be worth telling them how long it's going to take before giving them the price.  If you say you're going to be there for a few hours and explain what you will be doing before giving them the price well it prepares them better for the price.  I got a new one yesterday and used this method, she was biting her lip which is a bad sign, then when I gave her the price she was surprised at how reasonable it was, signed up for dd, happy all round.

@THL4KELwas talking to a window cleaner a few weeks ago and he had a new van or fairly new with a new fully kitted out hot water system and was charging £3.50 a house I think he said, now work that one out. 

If ever you get to a job that you really really don't want, why not price it really really high? I not saying to the point of totally ripping off the customer, but go in higher than you normally would. That way if they say you're pricing too high and decline then fair enough, you didn't want it anyways. But if they say yes, then great, you've now bagged yourself a job for good money.

Also there's always gonna be people cheaper than you no matter how low you're pricing. You've gotta be strong and stick to your pricing and know your worth. I had a customer on fortnightly cleans come out and ask if she could go monthly. I said yes of course but the price goes up a couple of quid. 'Bloody hell that's quite expensive isn't it?' was her reply. Sure enough next time I came she told me she'd found someone else who'll do her house for £6 per month traditionally. I was asking for £9 per month WFP (North East here so that's on the high side for a semi detatched). I just told her no way was I willing to work for that price and if he was then let him crack on. I know for a fact that house is gonna take about 25mins to do traditionally. I'm praying he doesn't even turn up and she comes back out to me as I do her neighbours windows. She'll be getting her answer if she does I know that ? 

Iron Giant said:

@THL4KELwas talking to a window cleaner a few weeks ago and he had a new van or fairly new with a new fully kitted out hot water system and was charging £3.50 a house I think he said, now work that one out. 

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Hope he didn't mention my name, doh

Iron Giant said:

@THL4KELwas talking to a window cleaner a few weeks ago and he had a new van or fairly new with a new fully kitted out hot water system and was charging £3.50 a house I think he said, now work that one out. 

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He's got a hot system so he can live in his van when he cant pay the rent ?

@Tango I wouldnt even worry about it mate either she is wrong or lying and if she isnt the other bloke will be packed up by the middle of winter . 

Suhrly said:

If ever you get to a job that you really really don't want, why not price it really really high? I not saying to the point of totally ripping off the customer, but go in higher than you normally would. That way if they say you're pricing too high and decline then fair enough, you didn't want it anyways. But if they say yes, then great, you've now bagged yourself a job for good money.

Also there's always gonna be people cheaper than you no matter how low you're pricing. You've gotta be strong and stick to your pricing and know your worth. I had a customer on fortnightly cleans come out and ask if she could go monthly. I said yes of course but the price goes up a couple of quid. 'Bloody hell that's quite expensive isn't it?' was her reply. Sure enough next time I came she told me she'd found someone else who'll do her house for £6 per month traditionally. I was asking for £9 per month WFP (North East here so that's on the high side for a semi detatched). I just told her no way was I willing to work for that price and if he was then let him crack on. I know for a fact that house is gonna take about 25mins to do traditionally. I'm praying he doesn't even turn up and she comes back out to me as I do her neighbours windows. She'll be getting her answer if she does I know that ? 

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£9 for a semi ? £12.50-£15 a pop that’s without any extras here at Newcastle, 

I get undercut all the time, sometimes you just have to laugh at the prices some guys are quoting. I'm with Wind O Kleen on this one, £12 ish for a standard 3 bed semi here in the North East. There's loads of new estates going up all over Northumberland / North Tyneside at present. I was talking to a husband & wife window cleaning team from Sunderland, they took great delight in telling me they get loads of new builds, get this - £4.00 a shot!!!!!  it seems up here, its a race to the bottom.

north said:

I get undercut all the time, sometimes you just have to laugh at the prices some guys are quoting. I'm with Wind O Kleen on this one, £12 ish for a standard 3 bed semi here in the North East. There's loads of new estates going up all over Northumberland / North Tyneside at present. I was talking to a husband & wife window cleaning team from Sunderland, they took great delight in telling me they get loads of new builds, get this - £4.00 a shot!!!!!  it seems up here, its a race to the bottom.

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2bed semi 12.50 3 bed 15,  I have lost lot of enquiries because I’m not willing todo them any less,

I had a text message today , could they cancel window cleans, so I text back asking for reason, if she said money problems , I would been fine with that instead I got, found cheaper window cleaner ! 

She is new only cleaned once I have 3clean min agreement so told her yeah that’s fine, do you need my bank details again, 

she messaged back saying why do I need them ,

for thr last 2 cleans we agreed on,

Got voice mail from her mother , 40 old wife getting there mother to ring me wanting to discuss it,

Wind o kleen said:

2bed semi 12.50 3 bed 15,  I have lost lot of enquiries because I’m not willing todo them any less,

I had a text message today , could they cancel window cleans, so I text back asking for reason, if she said money problems , I would been fine with that instead I got, found cheaper window cleaner ! 

She is new only cleaned once I have 3clean min agreement so told her yeah that’s fine, do you need my bank details again, 

she messaged back saying why do I need them ,

for thr last 2 cleans we agreed on,

Got voice mail from her mother , 40 old wife getting there mother to ring me wanting to discuss it,

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Actually, that's a good idea - 3 clean agreement. I never used to charge a first time cleaning charge, but do nowadays, plus 50% or double if they're 'wrecked'.I don't beat myself up these days when someone says they have found a cheaper w/c. Unless we're willing to clean for free, there'll always be someone cheaper.

the trouble is generations are changing. A lot of people are now in the mindset of getting them cleaned when they are stinking and you wont see them again after. Dont rely on agreements or contracts these days people break them willy nilly now it doesn't bother them & they wont lose any sleep over it especially over pittance.

If windows haven’t been cleaned in say 5 or ten years and need frame/sill restoration work its often 2-4 hours on the job & should be £80-£160...why should it be the same price or double or triple as someone whos paying regularly. Say you charge £15 a house and go double or treble you’re looking at 30 or 45 quid for all that work and it is an insult to regular customers really, once they all start clocking on to the fact their neighbor can pay once a year or less and Realise they can save £100+ a year by adopting the same attitude the industry will collapse. the chances are they wont have them cleaned again for at least a year and thats if you're lucky. they'll probably find a budget windy who reaps the benefit of an easy maintenance clean after all your initial effort or just leave them to deteriorate again, or do them themselves as its now do-able with much less effort and also a money saver. 

These type of customers are slowly becoming the norm & dont spend enough money to keep the window cleaning industry going ?‍

There are exceptions. I did a fsg job recently, a year ago i showed up and charged £300 because it was really bad, all plastics including windows had never ever been cleaned since they were installed.

Just done it now after 1 year for £160 as it took half the time and was nowhere near as dirty infact judt general dust and cobwebs. Fair is fair ? if people maintain things and provide regular custom it should be rewarded whereas cheapskates who neglect things as long as possible and then expect the same prices as regulars....it just doesn't fly in my book you know.

Customer texted me today - have you stopped cleaning my windows, because they were cleaned today and the new window cleaner put through his letterbox his card and payment instructions. Anyway I reminded him I cleaned his windows last week. 

He put it down to a chancer trying his luck...

Think he told the guy where to go.

THL4KEL said:

Customer texted me today - have you stopped cleaning my windows, because they were cleaned today and the new window cleaner put through his letterbox his card and payment instructions. Anyway I reminded him I cleaned his windows last week. 

He put it down to a chancer trying his luck...

Think he told the guy where to go.

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Might have been me cleaning the wrong row of terraces again ? mistakes do happen. 

Yeah thats what I thought ?

THL4KEL said:

Customer texted me today - have you stopped cleaning my windows, because they were cleaned today and the new window cleaner put through his letterbox his card and payment instructions. Anyway I reminded him I cleaned his windows last week. 

He put it down to a chancer trying his luck...

Think he told the guy where to go.

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@ £3.50 a wash some of my customers would have them done every week 

THL4KEL said:

Customer texted me today - have you stopped cleaning my windows, because they were cleaned today and the new window cleaner put through his letterbox his card and payment instructions. Anyway I reminded him I cleaned his windows last week. 

He put it down to a chancer trying his luck...

Think he told the guy where to go.

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Had a customer stop me and tell me that another window cleaner had twice been to her house trying to get her as a customer on the second visit said he was my cousin and that I was in hospital and he was cleaning them from now on. She smelt a rat and told him to jog on.

Easier to canvas new customers than go to that trouble, mind boggles!

Wind o kleen said:

2bed semi 12.50 3 bed 15,  I have lost lot of enquiries because I’m not willing todo them any less,

I had a text message today , could they cancel window cleans, so I text back asking for reason, if she said money problems , I would been fine with that instead I got, found cheaper window cleaner ! 

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It's all well and good putting in for a higher price but those prices imho won't see you build solid compact rounds in the North East, yes there is no doubt you can build a successful business on higher priced scattered jobs but you will spend quite a bit of time driving around everyday I guess it depends what sort of rounds you want and I've no doubt there will be more than a good few lads £3-4 cheaper than you hence you have lost a lot of enquires. 

north said:

husband & wife window cleaning team from Sunderland, they took great delight in telling me they get loads of new builds, get this - £4.00

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I live in Sunderland and have said numerous times that I can get my 4 bed semi cleaned for £5 by a trad guy who has at least 5 people working for him. 

Iron Giant said:

It's all well and good putting in for a higher price but those prices imho won't see you build solid compact rounds in the North East, yes there is no doubt you can build a successful business on higher priced scattered jobs but you will spend quite a bit of time driving around everyday I guess it depends what sort of rounds you want and I've no doubt there will be more than a good few lads £3-4 cheaper than you hence you have lost a lot of enquires. 

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I charge quite a bit higher than the local rate.  I do get lots of knock backs on the smaller semi's.  The good thing though is that if somebody pinches one of my customers, well they would only pinch 1 and not 5 or 6 in one go as it would be hard for them to find my customers as they're all dotted about.  I think it's one of the main benefits of charging higher.