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Steve Mcknight

DE and PS calibration problem

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Steve Mcknight

Hi guys,

I understand that the cold can restrict water flow and that its normal to run on a higher calibration for winter.

My issue is that I have to recalibrate a few times per day. If I leave it on a higher setting I then get a PS error after a while. 

So after PS message I lower cal again but then often get another DE.

Aside from that the system is running great and there's no other problems that I can see.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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Pjj
1 hour ago, Steve Mcknight said:

Hi guys,

I understand that the cold can restrict water flow and that its normal to run on a higher calibration for winter.

My issue is that I have to recalibrate a few times per day. If I leave it on a higher setting I then get a PS error after a while. 

So after PS message I lower cal again but then often get another DE.

Aside from that the system is running great and there's no other problems that I can see.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

 

This is one for @spruce or Ian sheppard they will know the answer 

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spruce
2 hours ago, Steve Mcknight said:

Hi guys,

I understand that the cold can restrict water flow and that its normal to run on a higher calibration for winter.

My issue is that I have to recalibrate a few times per day. If I leave it on a higher setting I then get a PS error after a while. 

So after PS message I lower cal again but then often get another DE.

Aside from that the system is running great and there's no other problems that I can see.

Advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

 

If you have a Shurflo pump then my suggestion is that pressure switch adjusting screw has been altered and the mechanical pressure switch is kicking in too soon.

 

This will help you

http://www.doityourselfrv.com/adjusting-pressure-switch-on-shurflo-water-pump/

 

(The shower head is our brush head. Turn clockwise to increase mechanical cutoff pressure on your Shurflo pump. I'm sure other makes of WFP pumps will have a similar adjustment mechanism.)

 

I know Ian Sheppard will have words with me, but I would suggest you disconnect the pressure switch from the pump and let the controller do the electronic pressure regulation. (Spring suggest the pressure switch is included in the circuit where Varistream tell you to disconnect it.) This will give you some trouble shooting direction. (I've run a Shurflo pump for 12 years with my Varistream as the pressure switch.)

 

We manually calibrate our Varistreams according to our desired flow rate. So if we use 3 as our chosen flow rate I will set the controller calibration to start to pulse (switch on and off) at 5. This will allow me to work at 4 if I need to.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the water in our tanks is very cold atm. This means there is no flex in our hose. The moment I switch the flow off with my Univalve the pump stops immediately. In summer it takes 3 or 4 seconds before the pump switches off.

 

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant

My question would be is are you cranking the cal up to high, over the last week temps have got colder each day and I have needed to increase mine but I only do so once a day from say 65 to 67, last night I filled my tank which I is extremely rare as I usually do this on a morning,

I then decided to heat the water up overnight to 25c and ps kicked in today, I reduced the cal once and ran the pump flat out for 30 seconds then closed my tap valve reduced the flo to my usual setting and de kicked in and no more issues

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Steve Mcknight
2 hours ago, spruce said:

 

If you have a Shurflo pump then my suggestion is that pressure switch adjusting screw has been altered and the mechanical pressure switch is kicking in too soon.

 

This will help you

http://www.doityourselfrv.com/adjusting-pressure-switch-on-shurflo-water-pump/

 

(The shower head is our brush head. Turn clockwise to increase mechanical cutoff pressure on your Shurflo pump. I'm sure other makes of WFP pumps will have a similar adjustment mechanism.)

 

I know Ian Sheppard will have words with me, but I would suggest you disconnect the pressure switch from the pump and let the controller do the electronic pressure regulation. (Spring suggest the pressure switch is included in the circuit where Varistream tell you to disconnect it.) This will give you some trouble shooting direction. (I've run a Shurflo pump for 12 years with my Varistream as the pressure switch.)

 

We manually calibrate our Varistreams according to our desired flow rate. So if we use 3 as our chosen flow rate I will set the controller calibration to start to pulse (switch on and off) at 5. This will allow me to work at 4 if I need to.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the water in our tanks is very cold atm. This means there is no flex in our hose. The moment I switch the flow off with my Univalve the pump stops immediately. In summer it takes 3 or 4 seconds before the pump switches off.

 

 

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Steve Mcknight

Thanks for info and feedback. 

I replaced the shurflo pump last week because I thought this problem was being caused by the old pump (about six years old). So now problem is still occurring with new shurflo pump. Except I'm also getting the PS warning(the old pump didn't have a pressure switch.) 

On a typical day I will auto cal to get the system running usually settles on 70-80 but sometimes gets stuck on 99 without setting. I then intervene manually when that happens and set it manually to about 80. 

So after doing a few jobs usually PS displays and I auto cal again which sets itself to as low as 31-48. The system then runs well until I take a break of 20-30 mins. After which I usually have to repeat the process. 

I had these issues during cold summer morning also but would be fine when temperature rose.  Just a little baffled as to why it's so sensitive. I will try the manual adjustment tomorrow on the pressure switch and see if that helps it. 

 

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spruce
31 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:

My question would be is are you cranking the cal up to high, over the last week temps have got colder each day and I have needed to increase mine but I only do so once a day from say 65 to 67, last night I filled my tank which I is extremely rare as I usually do this on a morning,

I then decided to heat the water up overnight to 25c and ps kicked in today, I reduced the cal once and ran the pump flat out for 30 seconds then closed my tap valve reduced the flo to my usual setting and de kicked in and no more issues

 

It was a long time ago now when I put a pressure gauge onto our van port. I found that with the flow we were using we were able to set the calibration of our controller to translate to 55psi. this setting covered all our work heights. The pressure switch of a Shurflo pump is set to 100psi at the factory.

 

When I was reading @Steve Mcknight's problem I believed that there seemed to me that the gap between PS and DE was very small. In our example it was big, 55psi to 100psi.

 

Either the pressure switch has been adjusted or the spring inside has broken.

 

By 'removing' the pressure switch of the pump from the electrical circuit I was hoping to eliminate or prove that the pressure switch is at fault.

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Aqua

Just ignore the ps I've never viewed it as an error message. 

 

Mine always goes to ps when I shut the Univalve off and if you have it set to around 80 as you said (and also that's what I have mine set to) it will always hit the ps before de I would think. 

 

Just ignore it and crack on I would say and enjoy working so much faster with the higher pressure. 

 

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windowsurfer

In the morning my spring controller has been callibratong itself,rather annoying waiting for it to sort itself out for a few minutes.   my old analogue controller didnt give me this problem,but it burnt out. 

Anyway at end of the day, i have detached the pole hole from the pole(univalve fitted)  n it seems to be working normally without having to calibrate itself.  so perhaps try that?

 

Passed couple of days i have 

Edited by windowsurfer

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spruce
4 minutes ago, Steve Mcknight said:

Thanks for info and feedback. 

I replaced the shurflo pump last week because I thought this problem was being caused by the old pump (about six years old). So now problem is still occurring with new shurflo pump. Except I'm also getting the PS warning(the old pump didn't have a pressure switch.) 

On a typical day I will auto cal to get the system running usually settles on 70-80 but sometimes gets stuck on 99 without setting. I then intervene manually when that happens and set it manually to about 80. 

So after doing a few jobs usually PS displays and I auto cal again which sets itself to as low as 31-48. The system then runs well until I take a break of 20-30 mins. After which I usually have to repeat the process. 

I had these issues during cold summer morning also but would be fine when temperature rose.  Just a little baffled as to why it's so sensitive. I will try the manual adjustment tomorrow on the pressure switch and see if that helps it. 

 

 

A new Shurflo pump would tend to rule the pressure switch out.

 

Lets have a look for a restriction in the hose after the pump. We used to use brass hose connectors with stops in them between the van port and hose reel. We did have an issue where one of them refused to open after working fine for 6 months. The restriction caused the drama.

 

We have also had a hose twist on the reel and the pressure from the layered hose on top of it severely restricted the flow.

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Steve Mcknight
13 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

A new Shurflo pump would tend to rule the pressure switch out.

 

Lets have a look for a restriction in the hose after the pump. We used to use brass hose connectors with stops in them between the van port and hose reel. We did have an issue where one of them refused to open after working fine for 6 months. The restriction caused the drama.

 

We have also had a hose twist on the reel and the pressure from the layered hose on top of it severely restricted the flow.

Well I did check from the pole hose back to main hose to vessel and then to pump and then blasted the mains water through the lot. Pretty sure that would have cleared it. If anything there. 

You think all connections should be detached and all hoses more thoroughly checked for debris?

Keeping in mind that when it's running it runs very well.

Edited by Steve Mcknight
More info

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spruce
8 minutes ago, Steve Mcknight said:

Well I did check from the pole hose back to main hose to vessel and then to pump and then blasted the mains water through the lot. Pretty sure that would have cleared it. If anything there. 

You think all connections should be detached and all hoses more thoroughly checked for debris?

 

When this stop connector suddenly started to open fractionally I didn't find the problem immediately. In my case it gave me the impression that the battery was flat. I did have a split charge relay on that van and running the engine didn't solve the problem. I went home to try to find the issue.

It took me another hour before finding the problem. I made up another connector pipe from the van port to the hose reel using ordinary Hozelock connectors without stops as that was all I had.

 

Bingo, problem solved. Those brass connectors can be unscrewed and the stop removed. I did that and it worked fine for many years later. In fact its still in use today as a filler for the backpack.

 

Come to think of it someone had the inside of his hose delaminate causing a blockage and another had a failed Schraeder/EZ Snap stop connector that connects to the pole hose go bad.

Edited by spruce

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Steve Mcknight
8 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

When this stop connector suddenly started to open fractionally I didn't find the problem immediately. In my case it gave me the impression that the battery was flat. I did have a split charge relay on that van and running the engine didn't solve the problem. I went home to try to find the issue.

It took me another hour before finding the problem. I made up another connector pipe from the van port to the hose reel using ordinary Hozelock connectors without stops as that was all I had.

 

Bingo, problem solved. Those brass connectors can be unscrewed and the stop removed. I did that and it worked fine for many years later. In fact its still in use today as a filler for the backpack.

 

Come to think of it someone had the inside of his hose delaminate causing a blockage and another had a failed Schraeder/EZ Snap stop connector that connects to the pole hose go bad.

None of mine are stop connectors Spruce. All flow freely. I did have to saw a little bit off my inlet manifold after damaging the thread for the elbow connection all put back together with no drips. Can debris ever get caught in the inlet manifold? Would that be a possible cause of a restriction?

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Steve Mcknight
17 minutes ago, Steve Mcknight said:

None of mine are stop connectors Spruce. All flow freely. I did have to saw a little bit off my inlet manifold after damaging the thread for the elbow connection all put back together with no drips. Can debris ever get caught in the inlet manifold? Would that be a possible cause of a restriction?

Sorry Spruce probably a stupid question. When you said van port - hose reel. could you just clarify which connection is the van port?

My setup is water tank - pump - vessel- reel.

Thanks.

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spruce
24 minutes ago, Steve Mcknight said:

None of mine are stop connectors Spruce. All flow freely. I did have to saw a little bit off my inlet manifold after damaging the thread for the elbow connection all put back together with no drips. Can debris ever get caught in the inlet manifold? Would that be a possible cause of a restriction?

If both pumps are doing the same then it does take the pump being the issue out of the equation.

 

Sometimes what you have to do is start at the beginning. is there flow from your tank to the strainer - no partially closed stop valve on the outlet of the tank.

Is there plenty of water to the pump strainer, Is the pump strainer clean? Does water flow out of the pump when the outlet side is disconnected? Does what flow freely at the van port? Can you source another hose reel from another cleaner to try. As you go you are trying to test your section of the system against a known good.

 

Then you have to look at the controller. Have you damaged it with reverse polarity - its easy done. If you 'remove the controller from the system, what happens? Yes the system will pulse but is it better than with the controller?

 

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Steve Mcknight
4 minutes ago, spruce said:

If both pumps are doing the same then it does take the pump being the issue out of the equation.

 

Sometimes what you have to do is start at the beginning. is there flow from your tank to the strainer - no partially closed stop valve on the outlet of the tank.

Is there plenty of water to the pump strainer, Is the pump strainer clean? Does water flow out of the pump when the outlet side is disconnected? Does what flow freely at the van port? Can you source another hose reel from another cleaner to try. As you go you are trying to test your section of the system against a known good.

 

Then you have to look at the controller. Have you damaged it with reverse polarity - its easy done. If you 'remove the controller from the system, what happens? Yes the system will pulse but is it better than with the controller?

 

I did replace the fuse housing from controller - pump about two years ago as there was a bad connection which was causing the pump controller to power out. I'll take it to my car spark and let him diagnose it as my knowledge on electrics is a little weak. Thanks for the advice.

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Aqua

Not sure if I understand correctly do you only get the ps when you shut the Univalve or whatever valve you use?

 

 

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spruce
8 hours ago, Steve Mcknight said:

I did replace the fuse housing from controller - pump about two years ago as there was a bad connection which was causing the pump controller to power out. I'll take it to my car spark and let him diagnose it as my knowledge on electrics is a little weak. Thanks for the advice.

Let's link this to @Ian Sheppard at Spring and see if he has any suggestions that will help.

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Iron Giant
10 hours ago, spruce said:

 

It was a long time ago now when I put a pressure gauge onto our van port. I found that with the flow we were using we were able to set the calibration of our controller to translate to 55psi. this setting covered all our work heights. The pressure switch of a Shurflo pump is set to 100psi at the factory.

 

When I was reading @Steve Mcknight's problem I believed that there seemed to me that the gap between PS and DE was very small. In our example it was big, 55psi to 100psi.

 

Either the pressure switch has been adjusted or the spring inside has broken.

 

By 'removing' the pressure switch of the pump from the electrical circuit I was hoping to eliminate or prove that the pressure switch is at fault.


I just thought it was worth putting it out there as you never know, do you think that if I was to adjust the screw on the pressure switch I could reduce my cal setting, the reason I ask is I think it's set quite high on my pump I had fitted with my new system back in April the Cal setting is currently 72, but on my old pump my Cal never needed to be above 40 

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spruce
12 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:


I just thought it was worth putting it out there as you never know, do you think that if I was to adjust the screw on the pressure switch I could reduce my cal setting, the reason I ask is I think it's set quite high on my pump I had fitted with my new system back in April the Cal setting is currently 72, but on my old pump my Cal never needed to be above 40 

I would leave the adjustment screw on the pump as it is.

I would just reduce the calibration on your controller to a lower amount that suits your application and work practice.

 

The pressure switch is there as an added backup but shouldn't work at all. The controller should be doing the work.

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