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laddergarder

Charging your battery with 'on street parking'?

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laddergarder

So I dont have a drive way, and will find it hard to park in front of my house as my street is a nightmare for parking.

 

My plan is to have my garrage fit a split relay to my battery, but I dont do a massive amount of driving and I am guessing it will still need charged a bit each week.

 

For those of you in a similar posistion, what do you do about charging over night? I dont want to take the battery in and out all the time.

 

I have been looking at the idea of fitting a caravan electrical port for security, and eventually an outside socket in my front garden. But what about the wire, would I need to get a rubber ramp to cover the wire trailing across the pavement?

 

What's your charging setup, with no driveway?

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scottish cleaning service

Its a bit dangerous when it comes down to common access. Someone would trip over it and try and sue you. You could charge a battery and then sit it beside the pump battery and then crocodile clip it to the permanent battery That would work I believe. Anyhow, I was wondering if you do gutter clearing with a Vac as I may be upgrading my Vac and selling my old one.

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Jango

I have a split relay, I too don’t do many miles. I have to charge my battery manually every two days. I have a garage so it’s no problem. 
not sure on your situation, have you got a relative where you could charge it?  They are heavy if you have to keep lifting it out to charge. 

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spruce
2 hours ago, laddergarder said:

So I dont have a drive way, and will find it hard to park in front of my house as my street is a nightmare for parking.

 

My plan is to have my garrage fit a split relay to my battery, but I dont do a massive amount of driving and I am guessing it will still need charged a bit each week.

 

For those of you in a similar posistion, what do you do about charging over night? I dont want to take the battery in and out all the time.

 

I have been looking at the idea of fitting a caravan electrical port for security, and eventually an outside socket in my front garden. But what about the wire, would I need to get a rubber ramp to cover the wire trailing across the pavement?

 

What's your charging setup, with no driveway?

 

You need to remind us what van you have. Most 'larger' vans from 2015 either have smart alternators controlled by the ECU or regenerative braking.

 

You really need to check before you get a split charge relay fitted as it won't work on some vans. (Vans with regenerative charging alternator systems charge the starter battery at a much higher voltage under deceleration and this higher charge voltage will 'kill' a normal lead acid battery, be it the starter or the leisure battery.)

 

My old van was an 04 plate Citroen Relay swb. The alternator continuously charged the battery at 14.6v. My current van is a 62 plate Peugeot Boxer. I could have transferred my split charge relay across to my new van, but noticed that the alternator only charges at 13.9v. To compensate for the lower charge rate they have installed a bigger starter battery.

 

We also don't do much mileage. I have now fitted the van with a Sterling BB1260 battery to battery charger. I monitor the leisure battery's state of charge with a Victron BMV 712 battery monitor on my smart phone. I have found the B2B battery charger does charge the leisure battery much better than the old van did using a split charge relay.

 

https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/forums/topic/22375-split-charge-relay/?tab=comments#comment-396866

 

Since using this Sterling unit I find the leisure battery is mostly fully charged. I've only been topping up the van battery every couple of weeks. Because the charger is connected to the starter battery side of the system, the leisure battery also gets a trickle charge. I've done this approx every 2 weeks these last couple of months.

 

A fellow windie in the village also only has off street parking. He has 2 x 85 amph leisure batteries and no split charge relay. He swaps batteries over every day. Whilst he is out with one the other is on charge. He carries them in every night. In winter he drains his pumps down and takes his hose reels inside.

 

 

off street parking.jpg

Edited by spruce

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laddergarder

@spruce thanks for that, I'll do a bit of research on the b2b chargers.  

 

Its a little fiat dublo I have. I should get parked at my front door, as pictured, its just not guaranteed, and it would be just that one pavement the wire would cross.

 

Its a busy with parked cars but its quite residential street, so there shouldn't be a mass of pedestrian traffic, more than likely none during the night. 

 

Another 30 or 40 years when we are all driving electric cars, every driver will be trying to overcome this problem for streets like mine.

 

 

15777374708691704069399052163603.jpg

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spruce
11 hours ago, laddergarder said:

@spruce thanks for that, I'll do a bit of research on the b2b chargers.  

 

Its a little fiat dublo I have. I should get parked at my front door, as pictured, its just not guaranteed, and it would be just that one pavement the wire would cross.

 

Its a busy with parked cars but its quite residential street, so there shouldn't be a mass of pedestrian traffic, more than likely none during the night. 

 

Another 30 or 40 years when we are all driving electric cars, every driver will be trying to overcome this problem for streets like mine.

 

 

15777374708691704069399052163603.jpg

Many years ago there was a window cleaner on another forum who rigged up a permanent long pole on swivel that would reach across the pavement.

He did this for his hose as he was scared running his hose across the pavement was a trip hazard and he would be sued. 

If I can find the photos I will post them on this thread. Found them. These were posted 10 years ago, but I have no idea how it worked over time as there was never an update.

 

I would be thinking along the lines of a cable via the van's roof to the house with a fixed length prop as per a washing line. This would need to be well above head height and above the reach of scrotes who might try to pull it down.

It would be possible to run a cable across the pavement during the day with a mat and a couple of cones and a warning sign. But I would worry about it being on place during darkness of winter when you probably need it most.

 

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You make an interesting point with electric vehicles. I'm pretty sure the electric vehicle mania will fizzle out to a certain extent due to the higher demand for electricity to charge these vehicles and there not being enough power stations to cope.

Ross Brawn made an interesting statement during a Formula1 interview recently. He stated the whilst battery operated vehicles are a solution to some inner city pollution problems, they aren't the total solution worldwide. He stated that battery vehicles aren't the solution in China as they use coal to power the power stations which is overall more polluting than what they have at present.

America is another situation as these guys cover vast distances. At most a hybrid is the closest solution at present but defeats the object of the exercise.

 

Back on thread. Using a B2B charger has worked for me on my van. Before I bought this unit I communicated with Charles Sterling jnr asking him to back his (or more correctly his father's statement) up that their B2B chargers would out perform a split charge relay on my same van.

He avoided answering the question. I went ahead anyway and have found it does work for me.

 

The alternator I have on my van is a 160amp. I know that as I've had to replace it. I've seen 38amp going into my leisure battery for a brief time before it drops down on initial start up doing a large commercial job. Using a split charge relay (140amps) on my other van with the same battery I only saw 22 amps peak after doing the same job. However, the old van's alternator was only 90 amps. Did that make a difference? I don't know.

 

After the charging rate has settled down I'm finding that this B2B charger has doubled the charging rate going into the leisure battery. I doesn't appear to be doing any damage to the leisure battery which is 5 years old and has been charged via this system for the past 7 months.

 

Edited by spruce

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Iron Giant

@laddergarder it will take about 2 minutes to disconnect your leisure and take it indoors, I wouldn't bother with a split relay and spend the money on a decent charger 

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spruce
4 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:

@laddergarder it will take about 2 minutes to disconnect your leisure and take it indoors, I wouldn't bother with a split relay and spend the money on a decent 230v charger 

 

After all my waffle you are right. 😂 Just keep it simple.😘

Edited by spruce

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Philip Hardy

I'm a little late to the party but have to think that the optimum solution is to have two 85amp LB's and a good home charger, charge them both at the weekend, run the first to exhaustion and swop with the other and recharge Batt 1, Quick release battery clips make swopping easy and using the smaller 85amp easier to lift in and out, shouldnt add more than 5minutes to your day (and maybe only a couple of times a week at that),will be far less faff + the vans always locked when its parked.

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Iron Giant
33 minutes ago, Philip Hardy said:

I'm a little late to the party but have to think that the optimum solution is to have two 85amp LB's and a good home charger, charge them both at the weekend, run the first to exhaustion and swop with the other and recharge Batt 1, Quick release battery clips make swopping easy and using the smaller 85amp easier to lift in and out, shouldnt add more than 5minutes to your day (and maybe only a couple of times a week at that),will be far less faff + the vans always locked when its parked.


Running a leisure battery totally flat on a regular basis will knacker it, I charge my 105ah battery every night, I do have an electric reel so my battery depletes between 50-75% everyday, far cheaper to buy a decent battery and charger like this one https://www.tayna.co.uk/battery-chargers/numax/leisure-12v-10a/

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laddergarder

Taking the batteries in and out will most probablly be my first solution then I'll go from there.

 

Ive also been looking at a solar panel. Concidering what rv's power off solar panels. I think a small one might work for one pump, then maybe just take the battery out once a week. I'll just get a foldup ladder for getting onto the odd garrage roof or balcony. 

 

I am a bit worried about having a heavy bat charging in the house over night. Am I being a bit mad. Just worried about it as a fire hazard, which is why I am keen on keeping it in the van.

 

Might go with two and charge one during the day. At least the house will be empty.

 

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Tango
17 hours ago, spruce said:

You make an interesting point with electric vehicles. I'm pretty sure the electric vehicle mania will fizzle out to a certain extent due to the higher demand for electricity to charge these vehicles and there not being enough power stations to cope.

Ross Brawn made an interesting statement during a Formula1 interview recently. He stated the whilst battery operated vehicles are a solution to some inner city pollution problems, they aren't the total solution worldwide. He stated that battery vehicles aren't the solution in China as they use coal to power the power stations which is overall more polluting than what they have at present.

America is another situation as these guys cover vast distances. At most a hybrid is the closest solution at present but defeats the object of the exercise.

 

I've often found myself thinking that there is no single correct answer for vehicles these days. In my mind - as you also say - the best way forward is hybrids with multiple power plants. You then have the best of multiple worlds - fuel when you're nowhere near the leccy, leccy when you can get it, and Mr Fusion if peoples food waste doesn't stop growing.

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spruce
7 hours ago, Tango said:

 

I've often found myself thinking that there is no single correct answer for vehicles these days. In my mind - as you also say - the best way forward is hybrids with multiple power plants. You then have the best of multiple worlds - fuel when you're nowhere near the leccy, leccy when you can get it, and Mr Fusion if peoples food waste doesn't stop growing.

A petrol hybrid costs more on petrol to run than a diesel engine without batteries. 

The resale value on a hybrid or battery operated vehicle will eventually kill the demand for new imho.

No matter how cheap its been too run, resale value at the end of 4 years will be nought as the next owner will be scared of the cost of battery replacement.

As far as the motor industry is concerned a new car becomes valueless at 10 years old. A battery or hybrid will be valueless at  4 or 5 years old.

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Iron Giant
9 hours ago, laddergarder said:

Taking the batteries in and out will most probablly be my first solution then I'll go from there.

 

Ive also been looking at a solar panel. Concidering what rv's power off solar panels. I think a small one might work for one pump, then maybe just take the battery out once a week. I'll just get a foldup ladder for getting onto the odd garrage roof or balcony. 

 

I am a bit worried about having a heavy bat charging in the house over night. Am I being a bit mad. Just worried about it as a fire hazard, which is why I am keen on keeping it in the van.

 

Might go with two and charge one during the day. At least the house will be empty.

 


The Numax charger will charge the battery in less than 2 hours, so it wouldn't be charging all night

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Iron Giant
31 minutes ago, spruce said:

A petrol hybrid costs more on petrol to run than a diesel engine without batteries. 

The resale value on a hybrid or battery operated vehicle will eventually kill the demand for new imho.

No matter how cheap its been too run, resale value at the end of 4 years will be nought as the next owner will be scared of the cost of battery replacement.

As far as the motor industry is concerned a new car becomes valueless at 10 years old. A battery or hybrid will be valueless at  4 or 5 years old.


They were saying on the radio the other week that petrol is just as bad as diesel on the whole for emission's because for more is used than fuel efficient diesels, emissions go down with electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles but nuclear waste and everything else will increase, no doubt to car makers it's a new marketing thing to sell more cars and those in power shall we say it's them saying the right things and making the right noises. 

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scottish cleaning service

I don't see any Government chauffeurs driving electric cars but they want us to drive them. If they don't want to be driven about in them then there must be a good reason, like being stuck in traffic and draining the batteries. 😅

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laddergarder

I am thinking I can just double up the batteries, connect them together when I am using them. Then just disconect them, and put two seperate 10amp chargers on each one. Hopefully that will charge them in a few hours after or before work.

 

How much will a single pump and controller depleat a 100ah battery a day. 50%?. 

 

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spruce
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, laddergarder said:

I am thinking I can just double up the batteries, connect them together when I am using them. Then just disconect them, and put two seperate 10amp chargers on each one. Hopefully that will charge them in a few hours after or before work.

 

How much will a single pump and controller depleat a 100ah battery a day. 50%?. 

 

 

With a Spring or Varistream controller you will be looking at each Shurflo pump drawing around 4 to 4.5amps per hour.

 

But we estimate that with compact work our actual glass cleaning and rinsing time is probably 50% of the hour - so around 2 to 2.5amps. It could be a little lower if your work is spread out. In fact I have noticed that our battery monitor shows that my pump consumption per hour is around 1.5amps sometimes - but I do talk too much.

 

With a 100 amp lead acid leisure battery you have 50 amps of usable power. An 8 hour working day probably means you have drawn 8 to 10 amps from the battery. A heavy working day would mean a bit more - eg., a large commercial job. Theoretically, that would mean you only had to charge your leisure battery once a week. But the battery experts tell us to recharge our batteries as soon as possible to prevent sulfation.

 

Your own working day and energy levels will dictate battery consumption. A must for every window cleaner is a good multimeter. You use the voltage meter to determine the charge left in your battery. You take this reading around 4 hours after the battery is last used.

A fully charged battery will record 12.7v or higher.

75% charged 12.5v

50% charged 12.4v

25% charged 12.2v

completely discharged 12.0v or lower.

 

As I've mentioned earlier, a fellow window cleaner has 2 x 85 hour batteries. Up until recently both he and his son were working off his van. He was running 2 x Varistream controllers and 2 x Shurflo pumps. Each day he swaps them over and leaves one behind on charge. The last batteries he had were Lion leisure batteries and they have got to be the worst manufacturer of batteries. His lasted him around 3 1/2 years. He does not have a split charge relay on his van. He also doesn't have a multimeter.

 

 

Edited by spruce

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spruce
4 hours ago, scottish cleaning service said:

I don't see any Government chauffeurs driving electric cars but they want us to drive them. If they don't want to be driven about in them then there must be a good reason, like being stuck in traffic and draining the batteries. 😅

 

Citroen was the first to bring out an electric Berlingo van in 2000/1. It was a disaster. The payload of the van dropped from 600kgs to 450kgs because of battery weight.

Citroen still fitted a diesel tank but it was only 5 liters to provide fuel for the Webasto Heater they added to give the driver some comfort and keep the front windscreen defrosted. But none of them worked because no one filled the tank up with diesel. A Webasto heater working all day would use that 5 liters up in 2 days.

 

The few that were sold went to Councils who were trying to set the example by reducing pollution. They had a very limited range and often the last driver 'forgot' to plug it in that night to be recharged.

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