Jump to content
Lee p

Window cleaning round info

Recommended Posts

Lee p

Hi all, I've been cleaning Windows for 2 years now and built up a decent round from scratch but now I may have a new business venture towards the end of this year.

If this goes ahead then i will be wanting to sell my van with round

How do i price it correctly for a good deal for both parties

I've limited my work so whoever buys can build it up as high as they want

The package would be the van a Vauxhall combo fitted with 350 l8tr tank

2 pumps/controllers

2 poles

1 hosereel

So with another hosereel it could be used as 2 man operation 

I make the water up at home via a vyair r/o system and 600ltr inc tank

The round is 4/6 & 8weekly

4 weekly cleans - £525

6 weekly cleans - £450

8 weekly cleans including the normal 4 weekly cleans - £1000

So at min it's averaging £1000 per month

I will look forward to any info forwarded

Cheers guys 

Share this post


Link to post
mike007
8 hours ago, Lee p said:

Hi all, I've been cleaning Windows for 2 years now and built up a decent round from scratch but now I may have a new business venture towards the end of this year.

If this goes ahead then i will be wanting to sell my van with round

How do i price it correctly for a good deal for both parties

I've limited my work so whoever buys can build it up as high as they want

The package would be the van a Vauxhall combo fitted with 350 l8tr tank

2 pumps/controllers

2 poles

1 hosereel

So with another hosereel it could be used as 2 man operation 

I make the water up at home via a vyair r/o system and 600ltr inc tank

The round is 4/6 & 8weekly

4 weekly cleans - £525

6 weekly cleans - £450

8 weekly cleans including the normal 4 weekly cleans - £1000

So at min it's averaging £1000 per month

I will look forward to any info forwarded

Cheers guys 

Why move from WFP to another venture.....guys on here say WFP is a licence to print money!!!

Share this post


Link to post
P4dstar

You can ask up to 6 times the monthly amount. The issue is you've only been going two years. The bulk of the customers are new customers, any experienced window cleaner would know that. If you look after the round and grow it a little this summer you would potentially get 3 times the monthly amount. You'll get even less if the customers are all ''cash on the day'' types. Spending a few grand people want customers loaded onto CP or Squeegee with evidence of electronic payment.

 

My personal recommendation would be to build it up, employ someone and send them out if you absolutely won't be sticking at it yourself. Build a little brand for yourself with a business name and simple website, uniform etc. In five years time you could be drawing a few grand a month with minimal input?

 

As for the van, if the system is mounted and bolted in it might be easier to sell it together but if not just be prepared to sell it separately.

Share this post


Link to post
johnny bravo

all depends what area,  state of van.       usually 3 / 5 cleans  , equipment 1/2 price.    or full van set up will get more.       

Share this post


Link to post
laddergarder

I have never paid more than 3x for a round. I have bought two small rounds previously and dropped one after a year, which was stupidly low prices. Then the other I kept is still my lowest priced work, even after increasing the prices. People usually sell the rounds they don't want, or are packing it in because its not worth it anymore.

 

Honestly the 4 then 6 then 8 weekly cycle would put me off. Others will disagree on that, just my opinion.

 

All my customers are 4-5 weekly. Taking out the 6 & 8 weekly. I doubt it will be very compact. I wouldn't pay more than £1500 for the work, and honestly I wouldn't expect you to sell it at that. But thats what I would pay if it was near me.

 

I would convert the 6 to 8 weekly's to monthly and drop any who aren't happy. 

 

Anything from 2k to 3k would be a reasonable asking price, if its priced to sell.

 

You can get a value for the van off autotrader, and as for the wfp equipement. I would think half what you paid. 

Share this post


Link to post
harunh
2 hours ago, laddergarder said:

I have never paid more than 3x for a round. I have bought two small rounds previously and dropped one after a year, which was stupidly low prices. Then the other I kept is still my lowest priced work, even after increasing the prices. People usually sell the rounds they don't want, or are packing it in because its not worth it anymore.

 

Honestly the 4 then 6 then 8 weekly cycle would put me off. Others will disagree on that, just my opinion.

 

All my customers are 4-5 weekly. Taking out the 6 & 8 weekly. I doubt it will be very compact. I wouldn't pay more than £1500 for the work, and honestly I wouldn't expect you to sell it at that. But thats what I would pay if it was near me.

 

I would convert the 6 to 8 weekly's to monthly and drop any who aren't happy. 

 

Anything from 2k to 3k would be a reasonable asking price, if its priced to sell.

 

You can get a value for the van off autotrader, and as for the wfp equipement. I would think half what you paid. 


Never really bought work but i bought 1 big commercial job years ago and i still have it after 4 years and i also bought 8 houses of one guy and lost 6/8 customers because they did not like the change of window cleaner and changing banking details etc , customers do not like being passed about, now if i had bought his whole business and still had the same bank details etc..... i guarantee i would of probably kept all them customers easy.

And i agree with what u say about the 4 then 6 then 8 weekly cycle, Round planning with a 4-6-8 weekly cycle can be a nightmare with many clashes, it has to be a 4/8/12 or 3/6/9 or 2/4/6 to keep all the jobs in line or even 5/10/15 if that makes sense.

Its more easier building your own round these days then actually buying a round, buying a round can be very problematic but building a round is not easy aswell it requires a lot of dedication, time and patience.

If i was a newbie and had 10k to get into window cleaning today i would probably try and buy a round and take a gamble because i will tell you something building a round is hard work , but i can understand why people ask 6-8 cleans for there rounds.. because it would of took them time to build, its not an overnight thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Ade's Window Cleamers
On 09/01/2020 at 00:03, Haychh said:


Never really bought work but i bought 1 big commercial job years ago and i still have it after 4 years and i also bought 8 houses of one guy and lost 6/8 customers because they did not like the change of window cleaner and changing banking details etc , customers do not like being passed about, now if i had bought his whole business and still had the same bank details etc..... i guarantee i would of probably kept all them customers easy.

And i agree with what u say about the 4 then 6 then 8 weekly cycle, Round planning with a 4-6-8 weekly cycle can be a nightmare with many clashes, it has to be a 4/8/12 or 3/6/9 or 2/4/6 to keep all the jobs in line or even 5/10/15 if that makes sense.

Its more easier building your own round these days then actually buying a round, buying a round can be very problematic but building a round is not easy aswell it requires a lot of dedication, time and patience.

If i was a newbie and had 10k to get into window cleaning today i would probably try and buy a round and take a gamble because i will tell you something building a round is hard work , but i can understand why people ask 6-8 cleans for there rounds.. because it would of took them time to build, its not an overnight thing.

Never brought any work because you can't guarantee the customer will want you. At the end of the day you are buying goodwill nothing else because you don't have the say on a customers house. 

Share this post


Link to post
spruce
2 hours ago, Ade's Window Cleamers said:

Never brought any work because you can't guarantee the customer will want you. At the end of the day you are buying goodwill nothing else because you don't have the say on a customers house. 

 

........ and goodwill isn't tax deductible either. So if you paid £2000 for the round its not a business expense.

 

The only thing you could claim for is if you purchased a van, equipment etc.

 

But here's the catch. The new rules introduced in 2015 mean that the full cost of purchased goodwill will be carried forward until the goodwill is sold, at which time it can be offset against the sale proceeds for the goodwill for tax purposes.

 

See;

https://www.krwaccountants.co.uk/krw-news/tax-news/item/no-more-corporation-tax-relief-for-purchased-goodwill.html

 

So that £2000 purchase price will be held 'in no man's land' until the round is sold. If the round is sold for £4000 you will end up paying tax on £2000 'profit.'

 

But since then a slight change to Receiver thinking has occurred and new rules apply which probably don't apply to the purchase or sale of a window cleaning round.

 

https://comanandco.co.uk/tax-relief-for-goodwill

 

This is definitely something anyone selling or purchasing a round will need to seek advice about.

Edited by spruce

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
12 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

........ and goodwill isn't tax deductible either. So if you paid £2000 for the round its not a business expense.

 

The only thing you could claim for is if you purchased a van, equipment etc.

 

But here's the catch. The new rules introduced in 2015 mean that the full cost of purchased goodwill will be carried forward until the goodwill is sold, at which time it can be offset against the sale proceeds for the goodwill for tax purposes.

 

See;

https://www.krwaccountants.co.uk/krw-news/tax-news/item/no-more-corporation-tax-relief-for-purchased-goodwill.html

 

But since then a slight change to Receiver thinking has occurred and new rules apply which probably don't apply to the purchase or sale of a window cleaning round.

 

https://comanandco.co.uk/tax-relief-for-goodwill

 

This is definitely something anyone selling or purchasing a round will need to seek advice about.

 

 

I dont buy work but if I did I would be claiming it as an expense it’s no different to buying a pole you cannot work without the pole and you cannot work without customers , how do firms that pay canversers or lead generation claim there expenses for this service ??? It has to be a legitimate expense , I must remember to put this one last my accountant next time I speak to him as it has come up on hear a number of times . 

Share this post


Link to post
harunh
2 hours ago, Ade's Window Cleamers said:

Never brought any work because you can't guarantee the customer will want you. At the end of the day you are buying goodwill nothing else because you don't have the say on a customers house. 


Ucan buy two types of rounds.....

1:ROUND NUMBER 1 is from Jimmy( the local window cleaner from the local pub) everyone knows Jimmy does these windows they all know him for years... hes the local window cleaner been doing it for years ....  now he sells up to you... customers be like WHERES JIMMY ? ? ? u explain to them and u will lose a few on the spot and then in the next 1-3 months i can imagine people losing a few more cos some people may not want to be rude and cancel on the spot.

2: ROUND NUMBER 2 is to buy the full business out wether it is a franchise/company or sole trader , When u buy this type of round u also buy there branding and there phone number,  with there branding and the phone number etc - basically everything... u have less chance of losing customers with this type of buy where if u bought of Jimmy it is a bigger gamble.

Hope that makes sense

Share this post


Link to post
Ade's Window Cleamers
40 minutes ago, Haychh said:


Ucan buy two types of rounds.....

1:ROUND NUMBER 1 is from Jimmy( the local window cleaner from the local pub) everyone knows Jimmy does these windows they all know him for years... hes the local window cleaner been doing it for years ....  now he sells up to you... customers be like WHERES JIMMY ? ? ? u explain to them and u will lose a few on the spot and then in the next 1-3 months i can imagine people losing a few more cos some people may not want to be rude and cancel on the spot.

2: ROUND NUMBER 2 is to buy the full business out wether it is a franchise/company or sole trader , When u buy this type of round u also buy there branding and there phone number,  with there branding and the phone number etc - basically everything... u have less chance of losing customers with this type of buy where if u bought of Jimmy it is a bigger gamble.

Hope that makes 

There are not 2 types of round. Jimmy from the pub is the same as the one with the franchise. In fact Jimmy's round might be bigger and earn him more money. In fact if the franchise changes the customers might want to use change to Jimmy from the pub. Nobody owns the customers/houses. Doesn't anyone who owns a franchise or has a sign written van drink in a local pub? I find this answer patronising and of no use to anyone. I have my own van have started 3 rounds up from scratch, gave 2 away and I'm full 5/6 days a week I do trad and wfp and I'm known as Ade the window cleaner in my local pub. I hope that makes sense! 

Share this post


Link to post
spruce
2 hours ago, Pjj said:

 

 

I dont buy work but if I did I would be claiming it as an expense it’s no different to buying a pole you cannot work without the pole and you cannot work without customers , how do firms that pay canversers or lead generation claim there expenses for this service ??? It has to be a legitimate expense , I must remember to put this one last my accountant next time I speak to him as it has come up on hear a number of times . 

 

I did speak to the Receiver at the time and that's what I was told.

 

Canvassers would be different as they are charging you labour for finding a customer. This is a new customer they have found for you so goodwill isn't involved.

Share this post


Link to post
spruce

This is why the Receiver has clarified the situation. The idea is that when a business is sold there are 2 aspects of the sale. Goodwill is one in its various forms and then there is the actual business itself along with assets etc.

 

This tax company suggests that the sale of a business should be divided clearly showing how much is goodwill and what the rest is. So if I was selling my business lock stock and barrel, the sale would be in two parts. This first would be the van and all the window cleaning equipment. It might also consist of office equipment, a computer and possibly a window cleaning tracking program.

The second portion would be goodwill, its value depends on price of each clean as well as how long and how well these customers have been serviced and if they will continue to remain a customer of the new cleaner.

 

As window cleaners we tend to put a value of X number of cleans per customer. But it could just as well be a blanket figure which doesn't take into consideration any who fall by the wayside.

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
59 minutes ago, spruce said:

This is why the Receiver has clarified the situation. The idea is that when a business is sold there are 2 aspects of the sale. Goodwill is one in its various forms and then there is the actual business itself along with assets etc.

 

This tax company suggests that the sale of a business should be divided clearly showing how much is goodwill and what the rest is. So if I was selling my business lock stock and barrel, the sale would be in two parts. This first would be the van and all the window cleaning equipment. It might also consist of office equipment, a computer and possibly a window cleaning tracking program.

The second portion would be goodwill, its value depends on price of each clean as well as how long and how well these customers have been serviced and if they will continue to remain a customer of the new cleaner.

 

As window cleaners we tend to put a value of X number of cleans per customer. But it could just as well be a blanket figure which doesn't take into consideration any who fall by the wayside.

 

 

The whole thing seams a complete farce to me , how would it work if you sold a round then does  it mean it has no value so you keep all the money and don’t pay any tax on it ???? Ime sure hmrc would be holding there hand out for a share of it 😂😂😂😂

Share this post


Link to post
harunh
2 hours ago, Ade's Window Cleamers said:

There are not 2 types of round. Jimmy from the pub is the same as the one with the franchise. In fact Jimmy's round might be bigger and earn him more money. In fact if the franchise changes the customers might want to use change to Jimmy from the pub. Nobody owns the customers/houses. Doesn't anyone who owns a franchise or has a sign written van drink in a local pub? I find this answer patronising and of no use to anyone. I have my own van have started 3 rounds up from scratch, gave 2 away and I'm full 5/6 days a week I do trad and wfp and I'm known as Ade the window cleaner in my local pub. I hope that makes sense! 


U dont get what im trying to say im trying to say the first round is a round with no branding etc and the people are used to 1 face if that makes sense 🤣 If u bought round number 1 u would not get the phone number but if u buy round number 2 u will get the phone number and round number 2 is a branded round where as round 1 isnt, anyone who is buying round number 1 will find it harder taking over then taking over round 2. if u dont understand then thats your loss.

Round number 2 is a full franchise business u will not just be buying a single man franchise u will be buying the whole franchise so this means u have total control over the franchisees.

Wow u started a round from scratch 🤣 well done to you,  u can give me your next round aswell if your giving rounds away MR Generous

Share this post


Link to post
harunh
9 minutes ago, Pjj said:

 

 

The whole thing seams a complete farce to me , how would it work if you sold a round then does  it mean it has no value so you keep all the money and don’t pay any tax on it ???? Ime sure hmrc would be holding there hand out for a share of it 😂😂😂😂


HMRC have better things to do then look into window cleaning rounds, to be honest the HMRC people are probably more corrupt then 90% of all business owners, the higher the status of a person in this world the higher the corruptness.

Share this post


Link to post
spruce
37 minutes ago, Pjj said:

 

 

The whole thing seams a complete farce to me , how would it work if you sold a round then does  it mean it has no value so you keep all the money and don’t pay any tax on it ???? Ime sure hmrc would be holding there hand out for a share of it 😂😂😂😂

 

And I'm sure that happens. Small amounts will pass under the radar and just be accepted as expenses by the Receiver. But it could well be that someone somewhere along the line will raise the suspicion of the Receiver and could well start a chain reaction of investigations.

If there is insurance one can take out against a HMRC inspection it suggests to me that it can be a long drawn out affair with the Receiver winning every time. Tax might be called self assessment and as such is the way you see your business with regard to your tax responsibility. In an investigation it will be how the Receiver sees your business with regard to tax, not your assessment.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Haychh said:


HMRC have better things to do then look into window cleaning rounds, to be honest the HMRC people are probably more corrupt then 90% of all business owners, the higher the status of a person in this world the higher the corruptness.

 

 

I'm sure that's correct. They would rather hound large corporations as their efforts could well be richly rewarded. Wasting their time on a small business that might net them a few hundred pounds for a weeks investigation time isn't worth their while.

But I wouldn't be taking the chance.

 

If a windie is earning £12000 a year and claiming £1200 of expenses then that would fit the Receiver's algorithm as being about right.

 

But a windie decides to buy a round for £3000 just before the end of a tax year could well trigger a red flag. The windies turnover is still £12000 a year but this year his expenses jump to £4500. He hasn't written off a newly purchased asset against annual investment allowance as this doesn't fall into this allowable claim as it isn't capital expenditure.

 

Capital Expenditure That Qualifies for the AIA

Most assets purchased for business purposes can be claimed as qualifying expenses for AIA, with the primary categories as listed below:

Office equipment including computer hardware and certain types of software, and office furniture

Parts of a building referred to as integral features

Certain fixtures, such as air conditioning, fitted kitchens, or bathroom fittings

Lorries or vans used for moving purposes

Machines used for business purposes

Agricultural machinery including tractors

Machines used for providing entertainment, such as arcade game machines

Assets that cannot be claimed include buildings, cars, land or structures such as bridges or docks, and items used solely for business entertainment. Part of the cost of cars used for business purposes can be deducted, but not as a part of the AIA3. The exception to this rule on cars is the cars used by driving schools, which must be adapted to have dual control, and as such may be claimed through AIA.

 

If that windie is questioned then one of the questions he will be asked is from whom the round was purchased. They will be able to interpret if you treated the transaction according to the correct process if you were the one who sold that round.

 

 

Edited by spruce

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
4 minutes ago, spruce said:

 

And I'm sure that happens. Small amounts will pass under the radar and just be accepted as expenses by the Receiver. But it could well be that someone somewhere along the line will raise the suspicion of the Receiver and could well start a chain reaction of investigations.

If there is insurance one can take out against a HMRC inspection it suggests to me that it can be a long drawn out affair with the Receiver winning every time. Tax might be called self assessment and as such is the way you see your business with regard to your tax responsibility. In an investigation it will be how the Receiver sees your business with regard to tax, not your assessment.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that's correct. They would rather hound large corporations as their efforts could well be richly rewarded. Wasting their time on a small business that might net them a few hundred pounds for a weeks investigation time isn't worth their while.

But I wouldn't be taking the chance.

 

If a windie is earning £12000 a year and claiming £1200 of expenses then that would fit the Receiver's algorithm as being about right.

 

But a windie decides to buy a round for £3000 just before the end of a tax year could well trigger a red flag. The windies turnover is still £12000 a year but this year his expenses jump to £4500. He hasn't written off a newly purchased asset against annual investment allowance as this doesn't fall into this allowable claim as it isn't capital expenditure.

 

Capital Expenditure That Qualifies for the AIA

Most assets purchased for business purposes can be claimed as qualifying expenses for AIA, with the primary categories as listed below:

Office equipment including computer hardware and certain types of software, and office furniture

Parts of a building referred to as integral features

Certain fixtures, such as air conditioning, fitted kitchens, or bathroom fittings

Lorries or vans used for moving purposes

Machines used for business purposes

Agricultural machinery including tractors

Machines used for providing entertainment, such as arcade game machines

Assets that cannot be claimed include buildings, cars, land or structures such as bridges or docks, and items used solely for business entertainment. Part of the cost of cars used for business purposes can be deducted, but not as a part of the AIA3. The exception to this rule on cars is the cars used by driving schools, which must be adapted to have dual control, and as such may be claimed through AIA.

 

If that windie is questioned then one of the questions he will be asked is from whom the round was purchased. They will be able to interpret if you treated the transaction according to the correct process if you were the one who sold that round.

 

 

 

 

Lol it’s all to complicated for me I don’t buy or sell work so doesn’t affect me , but I would be giving my accountant all the receipts and get him to fill in the claimable stuff , after all that’s why I pay him to sort it all out 😂😂😂😂

Share this post


Link to post
P4dstar
38 minutes ago, Haychh said:

HMRC have better things to do then look into window cleaning rounds

 

9 minutes ago, Pjj said:

I'm sure that's correct. They would rather hound large corporations as their efforts could well be richly rewarded. Wasting their time on a small business that might net them a few hundred pounds for a weeks investigation time isn't worth their while.

 

Just because it's too much effort to send a bloke to follow you around kit doesn't mean they won't go after you. After interviewing you they can claim they are beyond reasonable doubt that you have tried to avoid tax and issue you a bill. You are then legally obliged to pay that bill unless you contest it in court. It's really easy to twist someone up in their own words and make them look like a liar... Just look at any woman, they're masters at it during arguments.

 

In the example that sparked this debate the money would be readily available for all to see surely?

Share this post


Link to post
Pjj
4 minutes ago, P4dstar said:

 

 

Just because it's too much effort to send a bloke to follow you around kit doesn't mean they won't go after you. After interviewing you they can claim they are beyond reasonable doubt that you have tried to avoid tax and issue you a bill. You are then legally obliged to pay that bill unless you contest it in court. It's really easy to twist someone up in their own words and make them look like a liar... Just look at any woman, they're masters at it during arguments.

 

In the example that sparked this debate the money would be readily available for all to see surely?

 

 

That quote with my name name on it isn’t my words ???? 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.