More info on the facelift compact for a beginner?

Hi, I've been cleaning windows for years working as part of a company but I'm ready to start up myself now I'm not too clued up about the mechanics and science behind the setups, I'm just a good window cleaner.

So I'm looking at the facelift compact 425ltr model however I need to make sure it will fit in the van I'm planning to get which is a Ford transit connect long wheel base.

I'm fairly sure the 325ltr will fit but I would like the extra size if possible for my own peace of mind.

Another couple of things I'm thinking about, do I need to buy a battery with a relay to keep this thing charged and how effective is the DI vessel if I plan to just put tap water into the tank? 

Sorry if these are super basic newbie questions but you have to start somewhere.

Gary090118 said:

Hi, I've been cleaning windows for years working as part of a company but I'm ready to start up myself now I'm not too clued up about the mechanics and science behind the setups, I'm just a good window cleaner.

So I'm looking at the facelift compact 425ltr model however I need to make sure it will fit in the van I'm planning to get which is a Ford transit connect long wheel base.

I'm fairly sure the 325ltr will fit but I would like the extra size if possible for my own peace of mind.

Another couple of things I'm thinking about, do I need to buy a battery with a relay to keep this thing charged and how effective is the DI vessel if I plan to just put tap water into the tank? 

Sorry if these are super basic newbie questions but you have to start somewhere.

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I think @DeLaCruz has one of theses ???? He may be able to help out .

@Gary090118 yes I have - tbh I haven’t got much experience in van mounts but touch wood it’s been a great system - I have it in a small van, a peaugot partner. If you want I’d be happy to measure the dims of the tank for you tomorrow. The relay is useful as keeps the battery charged all the time, it’s more expensive if WCW fit it but they are fiddly to wire so I didn’t mind paying a little extra. DI vessel depends on tds of your water, search it up on here for some info 

Thanks for the reply @DeLaCruz  yes these measurements would be helpful but would it be possible to put a couple of pictures on here so I could visualise it?

It is the 424ltr model isnt it?

I dont have a tds metre I could pick one up today after work but a quick internet search shows I have soft water in my area which according to the website is below 60ppm not sure how relevant this information is.

One more thing how did you fit the tank to your van I've heard the fittings are just 8 screws into the ply of the van have you found this to be sufficient?

I know a guy who is good with wiring so I can ask him to help with the split charge relay, is there a specific type of battery I should buy?

Gary090118 said:

One more thing how did you fit the tank to your van I've heard the fittings are just 8 screws into the ply of the van have you found this to be sufficient?

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It needs to be bolted through the floor and spreader plates used

I'll take some pics later and consider what is safe even if you thought of just strapping it in, I think a good many will be surprised on the whole, just regarding my van and tank not the facelift system, @Den is your man as he has 2 of these I think 

I have the 325l compact delivery NOT DI version.great little system honestly can’t fault it ?

very neat and tidy everything is enclosed the tank is brilliant quality two important things to remember is pay the extra for the Hdpower up version worth the extra.

Second thing they come with tekscrews to mount to floor throw them away and buy bolts and spreader plates and bolt the system floor.

overall I recommend haD mine getting on four years been in two different van and still going strong. 

I wouldn't want it strapped in, although mine is not crash tested like some systems it is bolted with some pretty heavy duty fixings which would hopefully help in event of a collision. 

Long wheel base van i can't see any way you won't fit the 425 in. When i spoke to the guys in the window cleaning warehouse fitting garage about these tanks they did say the full Phoenix systems were much better heavy duty construction (although i just looked on the site and they resemble a modern car battery now ? ). That said mines coming up to a year old now and hasn't let me down. My vans one of the smaller ones around, the mechanics who fitted it said it wasn't ideal to put into my smaller van but it just about fit.

Main things i dislike are I miss having lots of storage space and the power reel fitted on top of the tank has caused the roof of the tank to sag down a little (did this happen to yours @Den ? ) - better have it fitted on the floor of the van if you have enough room.

Even this compact tank is really heavy - fitting it on your own would be really difficult without the correct tools, ramps, lifting gear. The battery relay systems are available on ebay for about 30£ less iirc, but then you gotta get all the wiring done so i figured if i am paying for the guys to fit the tank it would make sense to get it put in neatly and professionally at the same time for no extra labour cost. 

Aye you need half inch bolts and 3mm spreader plates through the vehicle chassis.

Ok thanks you lot, I will ask around some garages to see if they can bolt it to the chassis with spreader plates.

@Den I'm not sure about the power reel tbh, my whole window cleaning carreer I have only ever used a manual reel and I have no issue using them, is there some reason this particular manual reel is bad or something? Its a pretty expensive upgrade and my budget is kind of stretching at this point.

I havn't had time to get a TDS metre today so I still dont know if my water is going to be "pure" enough for the Di Vessel to be effective. I'm in a soft water area so chances are it will be fine but let's say it isnt, what would be my next step to get 0.0 water?

@DeLaCruz I still dont quite understand this battery situation, does this tank come with a battery included and how does is stay charged? I know they recommend a split relay but without that what do you do? I will most likely purchase a relay and battery if I have to and get my old boss to wire it for me but I'm curious how this setup works without it.

Yes it comes with a battery? I had a split charge relay on my last van  but I didn’t do enough mileage to warrant it so didn’t bother with my new van,  I Just charge the battery every day I have two power up reels and two pumps so charge up every day now, it easy for me as I have my own drive and just run a cable 6 feet to my van with smart charger. 

Gary090118 said:

Ok thanks you lot, I will ask around some garages to see if they can bolt it to the chassis with spreader plates.

@Den I'm not sure about the power reel tbh, my whole window cleaning carreer I have only ever used a manual reel and I have no issue using them, is there some reason this particular manual reel is bad or something? Its a pretty expensive upgrade and my budget is kind of stretching at this point.

I havn't had time to get a TDS metre today so I still dont know if my water is going to be "pure" enough for the Di Vessel to be effective. I'm in a soft water area so chances are it will be fine but let's say it isnt, what would be my next step to get 0.0 water?

@DeLaCruz I still dont quite understand this battery situation, does this tank come with a battery included and how does is stay charged? I know they recommend a split relay but without that what do you do? I will most likely purchase a relay and battery if I have to and get my old boss to wire it for me but I'm curious how this setup works without it.

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Regarding leisure battery charging;

https://windowcleaningforums.co.uk/forums/topic/22375-split-charge-relay/?tab=comments

Gary090118 said:

I'm not sure about the power reel tbh, my whole window cleaning carreer I have only ever used a manual reel and I have no issue using them, is there some reason this particular manual reel is bad or something? Its a pretty expensive upgrade and my budget is kind of stretching at this point.

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One thing that you may not have thought off is, depending on were the tank is fitted as in how far from the back doors the mounted reel on this system may mean you need to clamber in your van and be hunched over and on your knees every time you need to reel ina PowerUp reel will avoid this, I am 5ft and couldn't be doing this at all, never mind been a man mountain like @Den or @Part Timer aka the Green Giant 

@Den is only half a mountain nowadays ?

Part Timer said:

@Den is only half a mountain nowadays ?

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years of been under the thumb, imagine how i feel, I was once as tall as you ?

Took me a while but here we go, this is one of my lashing points out of my van and a nut of the same size for illustration purposes, strapping over 400kg and well beyond for some to four of these isn't going to save anyone in the event of an accident with a full or maybe even a half full tank 

Iron Giant said:

Took me a while but here we go, this is one of my lashing points out of my van and a nut of the same size for illustration purposes, strapping over 400kg and well beyond for some to four of these isn't going to save anyone in the event of an accident with a full or maybe even a half full tank 

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Totaly  agree ?

With regards to the actual diamensions of the tank @Gary090118 you will find that information on WCW's site. They have a specifications section.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and rain on your parade. I don't mean to cause offence but maybe you need to re-evaluate your situation.

What I don't understand is how someone could do a job for years and not be interested or motivated to find out how the system you have been using so well actually works. Is this a lightbulb moment that you have decided to go it alone?

A major part of starting a business is called due diligence. This is the process you go through to evaluate the viability of your envisaged business. It's a collection of all sorts of information which you put together into a business plan.

You already have a working equipment model Infront of you. Just by looking under your van you could get an idea how that tank is secured. Over the years you have had plenty of opportunity to see how water is filtered in the company you work for. 

My son works with me. He is also a very good, conscious window cleaner. But he doesn't care less about knowing how any other aspect of the business works. He isn't interested.

If he came to me this morning and said he was starting his own window cleaning business I would laugh because I know it would fail. He doesn't show the desire to involve himself in the everyday runnings of this business to succeed.

He doesn't look after equipment - he can't even be bothered to adjust his pole clamps as necessary even on his own pole.

His dream is to restore an old mini but he shows no desire to learn any mechanical or body repair skills. If he bought a mini I know it would just be parked on the driveway and continue to rot away.

When I tell him that just now this will all be his he says he will just sell it.

I'm seeing parallels with you and him. I'm not having a go at you. We all have our place in this world. Some of us are happy just working for some one else. There is nothing wrong with that. We have all seen many examples of a good employee leave his employer with the dream of owning his own business, only for it to not succeed.

There are boatyards everywhere where sailing boats have been stored by owners who have had a dream of restoring them and sailing to exotic destinations. They refer to these places as the dockyard of broken dreams as their boats rot away and are eventually scrapped.