Render Cleaning

Evening all. 

Ive been asked to do a render clean. Only some small walls in the back garden and some steps. Never done on before which chemicals do you use for this? As thinking I need more than just pure water. 

Thanks all 

I’ve been asked this also. Never done it before. Apparently you can use sodium hypochlorite (hypo). There’s some decent videos on YouTube about soft-washing render.

Some photos would be helpful,

If you’re a mature person with a decent respect to H&S then sodium hypochlorite (very strong bleach) can be handy. But before you buy a bottle of it, read up on it here & elsewhere. If used irresponsibly it can blind/harm you & others, as well as ruining the surface you’re cleaning as well as surrounding surfaces & killing plants.

Now that’s the scare mongering out of the way.

On the flip side many people on here use it. I have 10-15 times. Never had a big issue. I wear full p.p.e (Face shield, pretty much all skin covered, long chemical gloves, water proof trousers & boots) With the correct ratio of ‘Hypo’ (the street word for sodium hypochlorite) and water you can have fantastic results. Ultimately it’s just making the right mix, applying it on, waiting & agitating, then rinsing off.

Get some pictures if you can of what you’re potentially doing. If don’t feel up to it then give the extra work away to someone else. But everyone has to start off somewhere!

You could try pressure washing it first.

RWCleaning said:

wear full p.p.e (Face shield,

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With hypo it's best to use a full mask respirator (P3 filters) fumes are damaging to your body too

I use hypo almost daily with my exterior cleaning jobs with no issue.

You do have to know what you are doing though.

My skin seems resistant to it and am known to do driveways etc in shorts and tshirt but wouldn't do it without my gsr respirator. 

Look a right numpty I bet with summer gear on and an army gas mask lol.

Especially after @kevinc250said about his wife you would be mad not to wear one.

Just lost a good customer due to asbestosis and it's not fun seeing someone who has to carry an oxygen tank everywhere they go.

Also lost a good mate in clacton a few years ago due to working with fibreglass all his life when h&s didn't exist.

Be safe guys.

aahhh, the gsr, my best friend, @Dave Bthey are good aren't they?, just a quick word for those guys and ok maybe some girls I've known over the years, stubble or beards or any hair growth around the face will make any mask of no use as the fumes will pass through the hairs and make the mask of no use whatsoever unless you want to make a seal from fullers earth its just better to have a shave before using any of this stuff, just thought i'd put this out there for you bearded guys and girls so you are aware its your choice and your lungs.

kevinc250 said:

aahhh, the gsr, my best friend, @Dave Bthey are good aren't they?, just a quick word for those guys and ok maybe some girls I've known over the years, stubble or beards or any hair growth around the face will make any mask of no use as the fumes will pass through the hairs and make the mask of no use whatsoever unless you want to make a seal from fullers earth its just better to have a shave before using any of this stuff, just thought i'd put this out there for you bearded guys and girls so you are aware its your choice and your lungs.

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Ime sure the guys with beards will be fine ,it’s the women with them that will have trouble ????

I think a respirator for mixing is a no brainer as your close tot he concentrated source where fumes are much stronger. Depending on your mixture concentration the watered down solution becomes much less toxic so much easier to work with - would still be v.careful not to breath in anything from the area's sprayed

Dave B said:

My skin seems resistant to it and am known to do driveways etc in shorts and tshirt but wouldn't do it without my gsr respirator.

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eeekk!!

"Ingestion of any amount of industrial strength bleach (>10% sodium hypochlorite) or large amounts (approximately 300 mL in adults; 100 mL in children) of household bleach may cause abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhoea, breathing difficulties amongst other serious effects which can be life threatening."  

If you're not wearing gloves and your hands get splashed, then stop for a quick sarnie...?

You're spot on with the respirator ? 

"If sodium hypochlorite is mixed with *acidic products, chlorine gas is produced. Minor exposures, such as those usually seen when cleaning products have been mixed together, may result in a burning sensation of the eyes and throat, coughing and sore throat. More substantial exposure may cause breathing difficulties and swelling of the airways. Exposure to high concentrations of chlorine may be potentially fatal due to the onset of a serious condition called pulmonary oedema, where fluid enters the lung and limits the body’s ability to absorb oxygen from the air. In most cases, symptoms usually disappear within 1-4 weeks and people usually do not suffer any long-term effects. However, a small proportion of individuals may acquire a long-term sensitivity to inhaled chemicals known as ‘reactive airways dysfunction syndrome’ or RADS. 

If sodium hypochlorite is mixed with an **ammonia-containing cleaning product, chloramines may be produced which are also highly irritating to the respiratory tract." 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561017/sodium_hypochlorite_general_information.pdf

*Acid cleaners are commonly used to unblock drains/clean brickwork/patio/mortar/paving cleaners...

**Ammonia products inc Window cleaners, floor polishing waxes, furniture polish, drain cleaners, toilet cleansers, bathroom cleaners, multi-surface cleaners, glass cleaners, oven cleansers and stainless-steel cleaners all contain ammonia

Acid and ammonia based products could very well be lurking on or near the hard surfaces we clean... so its' entirely possible this could react with the hypo

NoName said:

eeekk!!

"Ingestion of any amount of industrial strength bleach (>10% sodium hypochlorite) or large amounts (approximately 300 mL in adults; 100 mL in children) of household bleach may cause abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhoea, breathing difficulties amongst other serious effects which can be life threatening."  

If you're not wearing gloves and your hands get splashed, then stop for a quick sarnie...?

You're spot on with the respirator ? 

"If sodium hypochlorite is mixed with *acidic products, chlorine gas is produced. Minor exposures, such as those usually seen when cleaning products have been mixed together, may result in a burning sensation of the eyes and throat, coughing and sore throat. More substantial exposure may cause breathing difficulties and swelling of the airways. Exposure to high concentrations of chlorine may be potentially fatal due to the onset of a serious condition called pulmonary oedema, where fluid enters the lung and limits the body’s ability to absorb oxygen from the air. In most cases, symptoms usually disappear within 1-4 weeks and people usually do not suffer any long-term effects. However, a small proportion of individuals may acquire a long-term sensitivity to inhaled chemicals known as ‘reactive airways dysfunction syndrome’ or RADS. 

If sodium hypochlorite is mixed with an **ammonia-containing cleaning product, chloramines may be produced which are also highly irritating to the respiratory tract." 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561017/sodium_hypochlorite_general_information.pdf

*Acid cleaners are commonly used to unblock drains/clean brickwork/patio/mortar/paving cleaners...

**Ammonia products inc Window cleaners, floor polishing waxes, furniture polish, drain cleaners, toilet cleansers, bathroom cleaners, multi-surface cleaners, glass cleaners, oven cleansers and stainless-steel cleaners all contain ammonia

Acid and ammonia based products could very well be lurking on or near the hard surfaces we clean... so its' entirely possible this could react with the hypo

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that's a bit of a confusing post there, full of shock and horrors 

I have a decent knowledge of the chemicals involved and what reacts with what but most people just use chems without actually knowing the possible effects.

Stopping for a sarnie with hypo on my hands wouldn't bother me at all.

It doesn't stop me rolling a cig lol.

There is being sensible and then there is scaremongering. 

NoName said:

eeekk!!

"Ingestion of any amount of industrial strength bleach (>10% sodium hypochlorite) or large amounts (approximately 300 mL in adults; 100 mL in children) of household bleach may cause abdominal pain, vomiting, diarrhoea, breathing difficulties amongst other serious effects which can be life threatening."  

If you're not wearing gloves and your hands get splashed, then stop for a quick sarnie...?

You're spot on with the respirator ? 

"If sodium hypochlorite is mixed with *acidic products, chlorine gas is produced. Minor exposures, such as those usually seen when cleaning products have been mixed together, may result in a burning sensation of the eyes and throat, coughing and sore throat. More substantial exposure may cause breathing difficulties and swelling of the airways. Exposure to high concentrations of chlorine may be potentially fatal due to the onset of a serious condition called pulmonary oedema, where fluid enters the lung and limits the body’s ability to absorb oxygen from the air. In most cases, symptoms usually disappear within 1-4 weeks and people usually do not suffer any long-term effects. However, a small proportion of individuals may acquire a long-term sensitivity to inhaled chemicals known as ‘reactive airways dysfunction syndrome’ or RADS. 

If sodium hypochlorite is mixed with an **ammonia-containing cleaning product, chloramines may be produced which are also highly irritating to the respiratory tract." 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561017/sodium_hypochlorite_general_information.pdf

*Acid cleaners are commonly used to unblock drains/clean brickwork/patio/mortar/paving cleaners...

**Ammonia products inc Window cleaners, floor polishing waxes, furniture polish, drain cleaners, toilet cleansers, bathroom cleaners, multi-surface cleaners, glass cleaners, oven cleansers and stainless-steel cleaners all contain ammonia

Acid and ammonia based products could very well be lurking on or near the hard surfaces we clean... so its' entirely possible this could react with the hypo

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This is why ones need training not just advice from joe bloggs who thinks he knows what he’s doing

However 300ml of hypo will not be ingested by eating your sarnies with dirty hands a can of coke is 330 ml , if you drank that much hypo you would be dead . But the body will be affected far more by absorbing hypo through the skin anywhere on the body that’s exposed to it especially eyes ,nose and any other mucus membrane or delicate skin ,this is called chemical poisoning and it’s easy for this to happen before you realise it , as with all chemicals they are safe if you know how to use it and use the appropriate ppe. 

kevinc250 said:

that's a bit of a confusing post there, full of shock and horrors 

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Sorry Kevin, agree it doesn't scan well  it's an attempt to highlight that hypo *can* be lethal as per the gov's link in the post, so hardly innocuous .. so always best to treat with some respects and ppe (gloves/mask/glass/respirator).  I know a chap who blames working with various cleaning chemicals at work for his two cancer diagnosis's he's received - throat/nose - it  happens.

Most chronic health conditions contracted from substances used at work only become apparent many years after the fact...by which time, damage is done. 

Pjj reread that first line - it's fractured with an OR - first clause refers any amount of hypo >10%, second clause post 'OR' - or large amount '300ml' refers to household bleach (weaker concentration)

Ingestion of any amount of industrial strength bleach (>10% sodium hypochlorite) or large amounts (approximately 300 mL in adults; 100 mL in children) of household bleach

Eating food with contaminmented hands is one of the main causing of ingesting poisons   

NoName said:

Pjj reread that first line - it's fractured with an OR - first clause refers any amount of hypo >10%, second clause post 'OR' - or large amount '300ml' refers to household bleach (weaker concentration)

Ingestion of any amount of industrial strength bleach (>10% sodium hypochlorite) or large amounts (approximately 300 mL in adults; 100 mL in children) of household bleach

Eating food with contaminmented hands is one of the main causing of ingesting poisons   

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Ingestion is eating something, absorbing it is getting it on your skin and the body taking it into its self ,  both can and will cause problems depending on concentration and what it is . 

As a side point all pre packed salad sold in supermarkets is washed in hypochlorite to kill bacteria and give a longer shelf life , so every time you eat it you are eating a small amount of hypo . 

Some meats are injected with a hypo solution again to give it a longer shelf life this is a very common process with meat in America and why this country is against importing American meat products , again you are eating small amounts of hypo every time you eat it . 

Swimming pools use hypo as a steralising  agent so again when swimming in the pool you swallow some water ,and your body is absorbing the water and hypo through your skin and mucus membranes, this is in very small amounts and doctors say this is perfectly safe , I have my doubts about that as this can build up over years of exposure . 

So the point of this is to say that using hypo for cleaning usually at a strength of up to  3-4% if ppe is used you should be ok but again we dont really know the long term exposure effects ,just like asbestosis has only been realised in fairly recent years . 

Pjj think we're on the same team here?

The context of this post is two newbies discussing cleaning render with hypo -  both have never used it.

In that context I'm attempting to point out (to the newbies soaking up this thread's 'advice') hypo is far from innocuous, as has been implied in the thread. I quoted from and supplied the link to a Gov's doc on hypo use, so they could if the wished inv how it could/should be used and the harm that they can do to themselves or others -so they would be informed before attempting the work. (Training is ideal - but in practice I suspect many newbies may be tempted to learn on the job - (which is fine and what I did) and this forum provides the bullets for them to do so,,just trying to mitigate the risk they may expose themselves to.

NoName said:

Pjj think we're on the same team here?

The context of this post is two newbies discussing cleaning render with hypo -  both have never used it.

In that context I'm attempting to point out (to the newbies soaking up this thread's 'advice') hypo is far from innocuous, as has been implied in the thread. I quoted from and supplied the link to a Gov's doc on hypo use, so they could if the wished inv how it could/should be used and the harm that they can do to themselves or others -so they would be informed before attempting the work. (Training is ideal - but in practice I suspect many newbies may be tempted to learn on the job - (which is fine and what I did) and this forum provides the bullets for them to do so,,just trying to mitigate the risk they may expose themselves to.

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Some of us like @kevinc250have a better understanding of chemicals which helps for example b&q no longer sell squeegee off but the h&g interior cleaner they sell is exactly the same stuff but marketed differently and the own squeegee off.

Others are not so clued up so best to be safe.

I can honestly say any chemicals I use I understand first so always use them safely. 

NoName said:

Pjj think we're on the same team here?

The context of this post is two newbies discussing cleaning render with hypo -  both have never used it.

In that context I'm attempting to point out (to the newbies soaking up this thread's 'advice') hypo is far from innocuous, as has been implied in the thread. I quoted from and supplied the link to a Gov's doc on hypo use, so they could if the wished inv how it could/should be used and the harm that they can do to themselves or others -so they would be informed before attempting the work. (Training is ideal - but in practice I suspect many newbies may be tempted to learn on the job - (which is fine and what I did) and this forum provides the bullets for them to do so,,just trying to mitigate the risk they may expose themselves to.

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Agree, it does concern me at times when people post how do I clean this then a number of replies are just use hypo 4-1 it will come up like new or words to that effect, some people are absolute clueless, and will go out buy things as cheap as they can and just go spraying it around with no ppe or clue as how to safeguard themselves and the custys and their pets

Despite having discussed things and have things explained to me by @kevinc250 I am still somewhat concerned about using a biocide despite having the full ppe get up, I guess once I tackle a few jobs I have at my home things will fall into place somewhat. 

it isn't often mentioned that a respirator mask, rubber gloves a face shield and protective clothing is required whilst undertaking a job with hypo or a biocide.

Iron Giant said:

it isn't often mentioned that a respirator mask, rubber gloves a face shield and protective clothing is required whilst undertaking a job with hypo or a biocide.

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By the sounds of it we'll be wearing all of the above just to walk along the street soon ?

Iron Giant said:

Agree, it does concern me at times when people post how do I clean this then a number of replies are just use hypo 4-1 it will come up like new or words to that effect, some people are absolute clueless, and will go out buy things as cheap as they can and just go spraying it around with no ppe or clue as how to safeguard themselves and the custys and their pets

Despite having discussed things and have things explained to me by @kevinc250 I am still somewhat concerned about using a biocide despite having the full ppe get up, I guess once I tackle a few jobs I have at my home things will fall into place somewhat. 

it isn't often mentioned that a respirator mask, rubber gloves a face shield and protective clothing is required whilst undertaking a job with hypo or a biocide.

Click to expand...

The problem  with all of this is there is so much conflicting advice out there as to what should and shouldn’t be done with hypo , what ppe is needed I was watching a very well know multimillion pound famous firm cleaning a large block of flats using hypo the only ppe they were using was white painters suites , the vapour cloud going away from the building was huge , I went over and spoke to one of the operatives and had quite a chat to him , he said they have been doing work like this for years and never had a problem , I found it quite incredible to be honest , and that’s a market leader for you ??? when I said about masks/ respirated he said it wasn’t needed ?.. I have been on a couple of training courses now run by different companies and I have to say I did feel the approach to H&S was a bit slap dash but again all this comes from America and when you YouTube all the videos most are from the USA you very rarely see any ppe at all being used , most are in shorts and tee shirts running around in roofs with no fall arrest of any kind , you wouldn’t get away with it over hear .