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Gardiner Rinse Bar - Are they worth it to speed work up


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I’m just looking at a Gardiner rinse bar, only the smaller one with 50 or 100 degree fanjets. Would this speed my work up and offer a good rinse compared to the two pencil jets I currently use? 

Ive just landed a big school contract so looking at any way to work quickly, thoroughly and efficiently through it. 

Thanks in advance and hope you’re all ok during this weird time we’re going through 

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I have no experience with rinse bars. I tried pencil jets in my early days but rejected them fairly rapidly. I didn't like the fact they were producing two localised jets of water in a rectangular brush rather than an even spread across the whole width of the brush. I used the 50 degree fan jets for a couple of years and thought they were very good. Then when I tried the 100s I took to them straight away. My son and I will only use the 100 degree fan jets now as we believe they are perfect. The whole brush gets an even fill and flow of water, no dryer areas.  When the controller is set so that the jets make a strong fizzing sound on contact with the glass, that's the sweet spot. I've never felt they could be improved on by adding the weight and complication of a rinse bar, though, as I said I haven't tried one as I've never felt the need. We find them super-quick to work with because of the wide curtain of water they give. Keep the brush against the window the whole time so all the water goes where you want it. 🙂

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5 hours ago, BWC said:

I’m just looking at a Gardiner rinse bar, only the smaller one with 50 or 100 degree fanjets. Would this speed my work up and offer a good rinse compared to the two pencil jets I currently use? 

Ive just landed a big school contract so looking at any way to work quickly, thoroughly and efficiently through it. 

Thanks in advance and hope you’re all ok during this weird time we’re going through 

I presume you are talking about the overspray bar which has an option of fan jets.

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brush-head-attachments/overspray-rinse-bar-assembly.html

I bought one a few years back also for a school clean. I like that the angle of the bar can be altered but I didn't find that the work was faster. Our school has standard windows and as we only clean them every year we need a good flow of scrubbing and rinsing water. I have never been a fan of fanjets as the spray pattern doesn't afford a good enough build up of rinse water on some types of glass. I only used it for that clean.

I prefer the low pressure rinse bar as we get a better coverage of rinse water across the width of the brush. I also think it needs to be used in conjunction with a swivel.

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brush-head-attachments/half-flow-rate-micro-jet-rinse-bar-standard-width-26cm.html

The downside is that the outer jet nozzles get damaged quickly on the side brickwork of the window which either closes the jet or sends the flow off at a different angle. I'm tired of sticking a sharp needle into the jets to correct the flow several times a day.

You have also got to be careful with these rinse bars with vents in the upper transom bar. Sometimes we get water ingress on one estate we work.

There are some windows that we do on the coast that need single pencil jets to rinse the grit off the window. These rinse bars and fan jets just don't work.

This is my experience and it doesn't mean that everyone will agree with me. That's OK. My son prefers his fan jets to pencil jets. His brush has both fitted so he can swap between them.

 

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4 hours ago, spruce said:

I presume you are talking about the overspray bar which has an option of fan jets.

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brush-head-attachments/overspray-rinse-bar-assembly.html

I bought one a few years back also for a school clean. I like that the angle of the bar can be altered but I didn't find that the work was faster. Our school has standard windows and as we only clean them every year we need a good flow of scrubbing and rinsing water. I have never been a fan of fanjets as the spray pattern doesn't afford a good enough build up of rinse water on some types of glass. I only used it for that clean.

I prefer the low pressure rinse bar as we get a better coverage of rinse water across the width of the brush. I also think it needs to be used in conjunction with a swivel.

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brush-head-attachments/half-flow-rate-micro-jet-rinse-bar-standard-width-26cm.html

The downside is that the outer jet nozzles get damaged quickly on the side brickwork of the window which either closes the jet or sends the flow off at a different angle. I'm tired of sticking a sharp needle into the jets to correct the flow several times a day.

You have also got to be careful with these rinse bars with vents in the upper transom bar. Sometimes we get water ingress on one estate we work.

There are some windows that we do on the coast that need single pencil jets to rinse the grit off the window. These rinse bars and fan jets just don't work.

This is my experience and it doesn't mean that everyone will agree with me. That's OK. My son prefers his fan jets to pencil jets. His brush has both fitted so he can swap between them.

 

Thanks for another detailed reply @spruce what sort of glass did you find it struggled with? 

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5 hours ago, Davy G said:

I have no experience with rinse bars. I tried pencil jets in my early days but rejected them fairly rapidly. I didn't like the fact they were producing two localised jets of water in a rectangular brush rather than an even spread across the whole width of the brush. I used the 50 degree fan jets for a couple of years and thought they were very good. Then when I tried the 100s I took to them straight away. My son and I will only use the 100 degree fan jets now as we believe they are perfect. The whole brush gets an even fill and flow of water, no dryer areas.  When the controller is set so that the jets make a strong fizzing sound on contact with the glass, that's the sweet spot. I've never felt they could be improved on by adding the weight and complication of a rinse bar, though, as I said I haven't tried one as I've never felt the need. We find them super-quick to work with because of the wide curtain of water they give. Keep the brush against the window the whole time so all the water goes where you want it. 🙂

Thanks again for the great reply @Davy G I watched and liked your video on youtube and rewatched it earlier today! I only have a Gardiner backpack at the moment. So hopefully if I go for it the backpack will have enough power for them. Toying with the idea of maybe going for a pure freedom trolley but would rather keep the money earned from the school job if what I’ve got will do the job. The constant stopping and refilling the backpack will add a fair bit of time on to my days working through the job and I don’t have the funds for a van just yet 

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Thanks BWC, the Gardiner backpack will be fine with 100 degree fan jets. The possible things that might make it a bit awkward for you are, as you say, the need to keep moving and topping up the backpack and whether the battery will last to do a school. I think you're right to aim to get a van. Sadly for a lot of people I think second hand vans will probably be a lot cheaper after the current crisis as a lot of tradesmen will likely go out of business.

Good luck

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Luke Macclesfield
8 hours ago, Davy G said:

I have no experience with rinse bars. I tried pencil jets in my early days but rejected them fairly rapidly. I didn't like the fact they were producing two localised jets of water in a rectangular brush rather than an even spread across the whole width of the brush. I used the 50 degree fan jets for a couple of years and thought they were very good. Then when I tried the 100s I took to them straight away. My son and I will only use the 100 degree fan jets now as we believe they are perfect. The whole brush gets an even fill and flow of water, no dryer areas.  When the controller is set so that the jets make a strong fizzing sound on contact with the glass, that's the sweet spot. I've never felt they could be improved on by adding the weight and complication of a rinse bar, though, as I said I haven't tried one as I've never felt the need. We find them super-quick to work with because of the wide curtain of water they give. Keep the brush against the window the whole time so all the water goes where you want it. 🙂

I may try out the fan jets to speed me up as well... For a regular maintenance clean how many swipes of the unit do you do? And what do you have your pump on? Just wondering cos you say you don’t take the brush off the glass to rinse..

For a maintenance clean I usually do one thorough swipe and take the brush off the glass for a thorough rinse top to bottom. 
 

I use pencil jets and I agree that it doesn’t wet the window as well, as they don’t cover much of the brush..

 

Edited by Luke Macclesfield
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38 minutes ago, Luke Macclesfield said:

I may try out the fan jets to speed me up as well... For a regular maintenance clean how many swipes of the unit do you do? And what do you have your pump on? 😊
 

I use pencil jets and I agree that it doesn’t wet the window as well, as they don’t cover much of the brush..

 

If you look at the exact details on my short yt clip you will be able to copy it exactly. You could if you wanted get someone to talk you through it as you do it. It's easier to copy it than to take it in from an explanation. It is an exact formula of the technique that I use for all types of Window and glass. Your aiming to get the dirt off glass and frames, no need to over complicate it and fret over phylic, phobic or leaded, no need at all. It's just glass. As long as they are washed properly and you bring down a continuous curtain of water, it will be job done.

I have my Streamline controller calibrated to 50 and the flow set to 52, this means that when the brush with 100 degree fan jets is in contact with the glass I get a nice strong fizzing sound, similar to a firework sparkler. Even though they sound lively I find they don't use a lot of water. There's no need to have a river running down a window. The right amount of water filling the brush and escaping out of the bottom carrying the dirt with it is all that's necessary. If they don't fizz the settings are too low. 🙂

Edited by Davy G
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10 hours ago, BWC said:

Thanks for another detailed reply @spruce what sort of glass did you find it struggled with? 

Most of that glass in the school is hydrophobic in various degrees.

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7 hours ago, THL4KEL said:

If your looking to speed up get a 45cm brush with 4x1.4 pencil jets and swivel neck connector..

He's only got a backpack. His options for jets are rather limited due to flow rate.

If he had a van mount then this is a good consideration. I purchased a 35cm brush with 4 x 1.4 jets for this same school clean and I like the rinse of the 4 jets. But I found the extra weight of the brush over a full day to be rather tiring. But then we have a big school.

My opinion is that he has to use fan jets but if he were me I would fit them into the brush and rinse off the glass.

His biggest challenge is going to be working with his back pack. Our school clean takes 2 of us 3 days to clean the outside and a further 2 days to clean specific internal windows. We use between 800 and 1000 liters a day. Because our job is big we spend most of our working day on the glass. The question for me is water usage and if his backpack battery will have enough capacity to last the full day of continuous work. The Gardener backpack battery is bigger than most at 12amps.

I would factor in a shorter working day because of battery capacity, but again, it could be a small school and be fine.

Edited by spruce
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8 hours ago, Luke Macclesfield said:

I may try out the fan jets to speed me up as well... For a regular maintenance clean how many swipes of the unit do you do? And what do you have your pump on? Just wondering cos you say you don’t take the brush off the glass to rinse..

For a maintenance clean I usually do one thorough swipe and take the brush off the glass for a thorough rinse top to bottom. 
 

I use pencil jets and I agree that it doesn’t wet the window as well, as they don’t cover much of the brush..

 

We are on the coast and we need at least 2 passes of the brush to ensure we get all the salt spray off. We are also plagued with seagull poo which often needs a soaking and a good scrub - baked on stuff often needs a scraper. We have got so used to the 2 pass method and rinsing off the glass that we automatically clean windows that way.

Many years ago I helped a fellow windie on his round inland as his Vito needed head repair work done. (A broken injector.) Helping him clean was so much easier than working on windows directly affected by the ocean. I guess a one pass would have worked ok with his round.

One of the things we have to do is thoroughly inspect each window before we clean it for traces of bird strikes which we might not see after we have wet the window. Any fading strikes are scrubbed from the lowest to the highest before we start on the whole window. This also includes lower windows before we start upper story windows.

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I have the rinse bar I use on a normal ultimate. I only use it on a commercial job I have. I run my pump full lick with it on. It’s quicker than using the bigger extreme with pencil jets. I use the extreme with pencil jets for the lower windows though. On a 1hour 15 min job it saved me nearly 10 mins. I would like a bigger one for the bigger extreme to save even more time. Mine ONLY gets used on this one job that is big long awkward windows ( car show room ) and the rinse bar is leaking etc. Poor quality imo 

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Personally I like the rinsebar I have them on my extreme sill brushes and also 35cm extreme.

I do have two of each brush for example 1 extreme sill with rinsebar and one without I prefer pencil jets.

the rinsebar is good I find for maintenance cleans not first cleans, for first cleans I prefer a ultimate brush with pencil jets for extra rinsing off the glass, personally I find the fan jets just don’t have enough weight for rinsing on first cleans and if you rinse off the glass you need them very close to the glass. 

Also I haven’t had any problems with vents I clean the top of every windows on each visit and never had water go up the vents obviously this is my experience. 

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I used to love the rinse bar, I haven't used one for a while.

I have been through all the brushes and still have around 5-6 different ones on the van, I've gotten rid of loads.

My go to brush for the past 4-6 months has been the extreme flocked, it just seems like the ideal brush for me, the weight and feel on the glass are just right.

I use two, 2mm jets on full whack. The brush has shorter bristles and doesn't easily splay, the combination of these different factors comes together so well for me. The water rises slightly above the bristle tips, its similar to having the rinse bar set low down on the bristle tips just enough to break the surface tension of the water.

I change the brush head now and again, but never for long.

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15 minutes ago, paul alan said:

I used to love the rinse bar, I haven't used one for a while.

I have been through all the brushes and still have around 5-6 different ones on the van, I've gotten rid of loads.

My go to brush for the past 4-6 months has been the extreme flocked, it just seems like the ideal brush for me, the weight and feel on the glass are just right.

I use two, 2mm jets on full whack. The brush has shorter bristles and doesn't easily splay, the combination of these different factors comes together so well for me. The water rises slightly above the bristle tips, its similar to having the rinse bar set low down on the bristle tips just enough to break the surface tension of the water.

I change the brush head now and again, but never for long.

I'm liking the flocked extreme sill brush a lot are you rinsing on the glass with the pencils, I find I do when using the pencils and obviously using the rinse on with the rinsebar.

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Luke Macclesfield
On 13/04/2020 at 00:07, Davy G said:

If you look at the exact details on my short yt clip you will be able to copy it exactly. You could if you wanted get someone to talk you through it as you do it. It's easier to copy it than to take it in from an explanation. It is an exact formula of the technique that I use for all types of Window and glass. Your aiming to get the dirt off glass and frames, no need to over complicate it and fret over phylic, phobic or leaded, no need at all. It's just glass. As long as they are washed properly and you bring down a continuous curtain of water, it will be job done.

I have my Streamline controller calibrated to 50 and the flow set to 52, this means that when the brush with 100 degree fan jets is in contact with the glass I get a nice strong fizzing sound, similar to a firework sparkler. Even though they sound lively I find they don't use a lot of water. There's no need to have a river running down a window. The right amount of water filling the brush and escaping out of the bottom carrying the dirt with it is all that's necessary. If they don't fizz the settings are too low. 🙂

Cheers Davy. 👍

Where will I find the short clip mate? 
 

I was advised by a few people on here to set my flow at 2 litres per minute, which is 60. 
 

But then other people say 60 is far too high, they have there’s on like 20 odd.. 
 

I have an 800 litre tank and usually have someone working with me, we both use the standard 2mm pencil jets. The cal is 50 and the flow is about 38, I’ve tried it higher at 60, but the water just doesn’t seem to last longer than 6 hours.. At 38 it will last 8 hours. 

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26 minutes ago, Luke Macclesfield said:

Cheers Davy. 👍

Where will I find the short clip mate? 
 

I was advised by a few people on here to set my flow at 2 litres per minute, which is 60. 
 

But then other people say 60 is far too high, they have there’s on like 20 odd.. 
 

I have an 800 litre tank and usually have someone working with me, we both use the standard 2mm pencil jets. The cal is 50 and the flow is about 38, I’ve tried it higher at 60, but the water just doesn’t seem to last longer than 6 hours.. At 38 it will last 8 hours. 

Hi Luke, if you go into YouTube and type in 100 degree fan jets in action, that should take you straight to it. It's only a very short clip as I wanted to show my technique at normal speed without complicating and stretching it by talking over it. If you copy it exactly you will have excellent results on normal maintenance washes. Go a bit more thorough on really dirty maintenance or first washes.

My settings are 50 on calibration and 52 on flow. You may not have the same controller, and you are not using 100 degree fan jets. If you were, the sweet setting is when the flow gives a lively fizzing sound, reminiscent of a firework sparkler, when the brush is against the window.

My son and I carry 650 litres. We use up to about 100 litres an hour I'd say when we're on full speed with close jobs. We feel we get a lot of work done for the amount of water used.

it seems to me that you are using a lot of water but that could be down to a less than efficient technique, I can't say.

If you study my video closely you'll see that there's no wasted movement or water. If it's done right it should look efficient and fast but not rushed. The devil is in all the details.🙂👍

Edited by Davy G
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Luke Macclesfield
10 hours ago, Davy G said:

Hi Luke, if you go into YouTube and type in 100 degree fan jets in action, that should take you straight to it. It's only a very short clip as I wanted to show my technique at normal speed without complicating and stretching it by talking over it. If you copy it exactly you will have excellent results on normal maintenance washes. Go a bit more thorough on really dirty maintenance or first washes.

My settings are 50 on calibration and 52 on flow. You may not have the same controller, and you are not using 100 degree fan jets. If you were, the sweet setting is when the flow gives a lively fizzing sound, reminiscent of a firework sparkler, when the brush is against the window.

My son and I carry 650 litres. We use up to about 100 litres an hour I'd say when we're on full speed with close jobs. We feel we get a lot of work done for the amount of water used.

it seems to me that you are using a lot of water but that could be down to a less than efficient technique, I can't say.

If you study my video closely you'll see that there's no wasted movement or water. If it's done right it should look efficient and fast but not rushed. The devil is in all the details.🙂👍

Thanks for that Davy. 👍

At the moment I’m using 2 standard 2mm pencil jets, would you use the same technique while using them? And would you rinse on or off the glass? 
 

If you don’t mind me asking, how much work on average would you get through per hour using around 100 litres, you and your son? 

I appreciate your advise mate. 😃
 

 

Edited by Luke Macclesfield
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27 minutes ago, Luke Macclesfield said:

Thanks for that Davy. 👍

At the moment I’m using 2 standard 2mm pencil jets, would you use the same technique while using them? And would you rinse on or off the glass? 
 

If you don’t mind me asking, how much work on average would you get through per hour using around 100 litres, you and your son? 

I appreciate your advise mate. 😃
 

 

I tried pencil jets for a short while when I started six years ago. I didn't take to them as it didn't make sense to me to have two straight jets of water when I could have fans filling the whole width of the brush. Hence I don't have a lot of experience with them to go by. If I was using them I'd still rinse on the glass to make sure all the water stays on the window and flows down the glass taking the dirt with it. Might not be as effective with flocked brushes though as the bristles are so dense and might not let all the dirt through, in which case I'd allow a tiny bit of space between brush and glass on the rinse down, so almost on the glass.

The two of us together working as a tight team will do a three bed semi with a conservatory in about 5-8 minutes, 20-30 houses a day of mixed sizes, most have conservatories. We're usually finished between 2 and 3pm.

It's hard to say how many an hour because there are so many factors: size of house, distance apart etc. We keep a record of the time taken for each house but not often how many houses in an hour. We have done occasionally when we've had a bunch of good ones close together and we've sometimes cracked over £100 in the hour, sometimes well over. Although the timing would be for amount earned rather than how many houses.

VERY IMPORTANT : Don't get too worried about speed of work and earnings per hour at the moment, even though it's hard not to. Concentrate on nailing down a bomb-proof, efficient, solid, reliable and easy technique. The speed will come as you get used to it and gain confidence and muscle memory. Getting it right is the important thing at the moment.

Glad to help anytime. 🙂👍

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