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Fitting a 650l tank.


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Posted (edited)

Just collected a 650ltr wydale tank.

I've spoke to vauxhall today and my insurance company for advice on the tank.

 

Vauxhall say that if the tank is framed its no good going just thrrough the floor as the floor is weaker than the load hooks in the van, and if drilled through the actual chassis that weakens the chassis, so they recomend 4 x 5000kg ratchet straps.

 

The insurance company have said exectly the same BUT if its framed then it must be declared as a modification and will increase the insurance and if theres an accident and the frame moves then it will invalidate the insurance as they will say it wasnt fitted properly, they've said that if the tank is strapped to the load loops then it does not need declaring.

My heads spinning now as to what to do for the best.

Edited by HWCS
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1 minute ago, HWCS said:

Just collected a 650ltr wydale tank.

I've spoke to vauxhall today and my insurance company for advice on the tank.

 

Vauxhall say that if the tank is framed its no good going just thrrough the floor as the floor is weaker than the load hooks in the van, and if drilled through the actual chassis that weakens the chassis, so they recomend 4 x 5000kg ratchet straps.

 

The insurance company have said exectly the same BUT if its framed then it must be declared as a modification and will increase the insurance and if theres an accident and the frame moves then it will invalidate the insurance, they've said that if the tank is strapped to the load loops then it does not need declaring.

My heads spinning now as to what to do for the best.

Phone Alexander swan and speak to them they are very helpful 

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2 minutes ago, Pjj said:

Phone Alexander swan and speak to them they are very helpful 

Ive got insurance its the whole

FRAMES v STRAPS

Argument.

I know that a frame + Straps is the ideal scenario, but im worried that if i have a frame made that if god forbid there is an accident and it pulls away from the floor my insurance will be invalid.

Obv i dont intend on an accident i only drive my van at 30 40 at a push as my works all pretty close

 

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2 minutes ago, HWCS said:

Ive got insurance its the whole

FRAMES v STRAPS

Argument.

I know that a frame + Straps is the ideal scenario, but im worried that if i have a frame made that if god forbid there is an accident and it pulls away from the floor my insurance will be invalid.

Obv i dont intend on an accident i only drive my van at 30 40 at a push as my works all pretty close

 

This is why I said phone Alexander swan they specialise in our type of work there arnt any clauses about floors being damaged or tanks ripping out , sounds like the company you are with di t really understand our industry . 

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6 minutes ago, Pjj said:

This is why I said phone Alexander swan they specialise in our type of work there arnt any clauses about floors being damaged or tanks ripping out , sounds like the company you are with di t really understand our industry . 

Ahhhhh i see ill give them a ring and mayne just switch insurers

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Just now, HWCS said:

Ahhhhh i see ill give them a ring and mayne just switch insurers

It’s worth a call I have all my vans with them ,and to be honest they are the cheapest quote I have had been with them now must be8 years + 

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Posted (edited)

 

Half the staff in these insurance places work to a script. There is no common sense because the script doesn't allow for common sense. Its a one script fits all written by legal people to cover themselves in every eventuality @HWCS.

The person at Vauxhall also doesn't know what he is talking about. The load eye bolts are spot welded into the floor pan and have washers about 2" in diameter. If you fit a 3" square spreader plate under the floor with high tensile bolts you have a more secure anchor than the eye hooks supplied in manufacture.

Yes, there could be an issue with drilling through the chassis. Our MOT inspector I've used for years with our vehicles would fail my class 4 van if I had drilled a hole through the chassis. My current van is a class 7 and has been MOTed by 2 different inspectors. Both have been quite happy with my frame bolted through the chassis. Unfortunately its one of those grey inspection areas where each inspector has to make the call one way or the other. This is why I have advised on several occasions to check first with the inspector you use to find out his take on it.

I know of 2 other local lads who have their tanks secured through the chassis. They haven't had a problem with whoever does their MOTs either.

Our inspector is strict about that. I'm happy to use him as he allows me under the van and car when he's doing the MOT so I get to see everything he is looking at. His MOT has always been fair.

The second last inspector who did my current van tried to get new discs and pads out of me front and back. That was a quote of £500 when there was nothing wrong with them. Swines.

Edited by spruce
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High-tower

Vauxhall are chatting ********.

get it put in a frame and fitted professionally and certified for your insurance. That way if it does come loose and crush you to death your family can sue somebody. 
 

The big 650 wydale tanks are no joke, especially the uprights, and it’s no easy feat securing them with straps, when they’re half full and it starts sloshing about at the traffic lights you know all about it.

start saving for the grippatank now, nothing else compares.

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4 hours ago, HWCS said:

Just collected a 650ltr wydale tank.

I've spoke to vauxhall today and my insurance company for advice on the tank.

 

Vauxhall say that if the tank is framed its no good going just thrrough the floor as the floor is weaker than the load hooks in the van, and if drilled through the actual chassis that weakens the chassis, so they recomend 4 x 5000kg ratchet straps.

 

4 hours ago, HWCS said:

 

The insurance company have said exectly the same BUT if its framed then it must be declared as a modification and will increase the insurance and if theres an accident and the frame moves then it will invalidate the insurance as they will say it wasnt fitted properly, they've said that if the tank is strapped to the load loops then it does not need declaring.

My heads spinning now as to what to do for the best.

I use a 650 ltr Wyedale flat tank. I fitted it against the factory original bulkhead with rubber matting and several layers of foil sided bubble wrap between. It has rubber yoga matting underneath as padding and insulation as I heat the water. It's strapped diagonally with two heavy duty ratchet straps onto the tie+down eyes. I passed the straps up the front corners of the tank between the tank and bulkhead then across the top and down to the diagonally opposite corners using the tie down rings, to hold the tank back as well as down. The straps cross over each other on the top of the tank which is very well insulated with bubble wrap. The straps need to be tight enough to hold the tank firmly but not over tight. I put stiff 18 mm  rubber mat on top of the tank as a raised floor for the side door reel and I cut a round hole for access to the filler cap.

I would hope the factory fitted rings in a commercial vehicle should be strong enough to secure a commercial load in scale to the vehicle, in my case Merc Vito so a Euro Pallet loaded with up to 1Ton. The full tank will be less than 700kg. If the rings aren't fit for purpose the fault lies with the maker. I don't believe I should have to make modifications by drilling holes.

I am also insured with Alexander Swan. We contacted them by phone then sent an email explaining everything that was done : the size and weight of the tank, how it was secured, the fact that we had shelving, pole tubes, roof rack and ladders. I listed the kit we carry and the fact that that it was fitted out DIY by myself.

They confirmed that everything was fine by them. To make sure I drove to their office. I pass it every working day as it's in the heart of our round. I again went through what I've done and asked them if they'd like to take some photos for their records. They said there was no need.

I would suggest you do the same except for visiting them if you're not fairly local. It's important to have a detailed and honest list of everything relevant. And to make sure that you have a written record (paper trail).

 

 

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Part Timer
1 minute ago, Davy G said:

I would hope the factory fitted rings in a commercial vehicle should be strong enough to secure a commercial load in scale to the vehicle, in my case Merc Vito so a Euro Pallet loaded with up to 1Ton. The full tank will be less than 700kg. If the rings aren't fit for purpose the fault lies with the maker. I don't believe I should have to make modifications by drilling holes.

A loaded pallet with bricks on isn't the same as water, water has inertia which drastically affects the weight in a collision. With what you've gone through lately I'd have a word with someone to bolt that baby down, you never know.

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14 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

A loaded pallet with bricks on isn't the same as water, water has inertia which drastically affects the weight in a collision. With what you've gone through lately I'd have a word with someone to bolt that baby down, you never know.

Thanks PT, I don't do big mileage or fast speeds. With the strapping, extremely strong bulkhead and seating. I have every confidence in the integrity and safety. I'm not complacent though of course. I drive very carefully and steadily, accidents can and do happen as we all know.

Thanks again for your warning mate.

Keep safe and well and try to avoid a round two with the virus, even if you might like a challenge. It's not worth it mate. 😁👍

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Gone for the frame option.

Got a mate making one similar to this out of 3" Angle Iron, the top 2 bars will be hinged and secured by bolts and wing nuts, between the 2 verticle bars will be a plate to mount pump and controler.

£20 for materials

£30 labour and fitting.

BARGAIN

 

Screenshot_20200506-203948_Samsung Internet.jpg

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7 minutes ago, HWCS said:

£30 labour and fitting

Fitting being bolted in with spreader plates or put in and strapped in?

 

Nice and cheap frame

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21 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

Fitting being bolted in with spreader plates or put in and strapped in?

 

Nice and cheap frame

Drilled through and secured using spreader plates.

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