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Delabrum

Push fit pipe problems.

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Delabrum

Hi all. 
 

I switched to WFP 3 weeks ago. Bought a 2 man system; the tank is connected to the reels by push fit pipes. First 2 weeks I had no problems, but this last week was a nightmare. The last bits of push fit going into my reels kept coming off (on both sides 😡). The last bit is (I think) a 3/4 bsp, it spins as the reel unreels/reels back in. I’ve also had problems with the pipe coming out at the other end of that last section, I’ve uploaded a photo to make my problem easier to visualize.

I’ve replaced the last bits of pipework going into the reels on both sides. One side seems to be fine now, but I’m still having problems with the other. It seems to be when I’m reeling back in (electric) that it comes loose and eventually pops off. My reels weren’t bolted to the van, but I’ve managed to ratchet strap them in. That seems to making a difference as the reels and pipework aren’t constantly moving about now, but it’s still not totally fixed.

Any ideas?

Oh and one last question. I’m new to all of this, so apologies if this is a daft question. If the flow rate on my pump is set too high, could that make a difference to the pipework coming loose more easily?

E30041CF-EBCA-487A-AB51-55C20F25AB07.jpeg

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spruce
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Delabrum said:

Hi all. 
 

I switched to WFP 3 weeks ago. Bought a 2 man system; the tank is connected to the reels by push fit pipes. First 2 weeks I had no problems, but this last week was a nightmare. The last bits of push fit going into my reels kept coming off (on both sides 😡). The last bit is (I think) a 3/4 bsp, it spins as the reel unreels/reels back in. I’ve also had problems with the pipe coming out at the other end of that last section, I’ve uploaded a photo to make my problem easier to visualize.

I’ve replaced the last bits of pipework going into the reels on both sides. One side seems to be fine now, but I’m still having problems with the other. It seems to be when I’m reeling back in (electric) that it comes loose and eventually pops off. My reels weren’t bolted to the van, but I’ve managed to ratchet strap them in. That seems to making a difference as the reels and pipework aren’t constantly moving about now, but it’s still not totally fixed.

Any ideas?

Oh and one last question. I’m new to all of this, so apologies if this is a daft question. If the flow rate on my pump is set too high, could that make a difference to the pipework coming loose more easily?

E30041CF-EBCA-487A-AB51-55C20F25AB07.jpeg

You need a flexible hose to the hose reel. We use a 3/4" Hozelock brass tap connector on the reel and a brass hozelock hose connector to connect the reel to the van port. A smear of Vaseline on the o rings helps keep the o rings lubricated.

Our reels aren't fixed in the van.

 

Edited by spruce

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Delabrum
20 minutes ago, spruce said:

You need a flexible hose to the hose reel. We use a 3/4" Hozelock brass tap connector on the reel and a brass hozelock hose connector to connect the reel to the van port.

Our reels aren't fixed in the van.

 

Thanks! I know a lot of window cleaners - some of them have the same setup as me but it seems more have a hozelock connector going into the reel. Can I replace that last section with hozelock without needing to replace the rest of the push fit pipework?

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Jango
2 hours ago, Delabrum said:

Thanks! I know a lot of window cleaners - some of them have the same setup as me but it seems more have a hozelock connector going into the reel. Can I replace that last section with hozelock without needing to replace the rest of the push fit pipework?

I have push fit pipework to my pump etc. But not to the reel. I use the same hose lock brass fitting as @spruce. I have a diy electric reel, flexible hose. Odd time it leaks then I have to replace the brass elbow. 

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spruce
2 hours ago, Delabrum said:

Thanks! I know a lot of window cleaners - some of them have the same setup as me but it seems more have a hozelock connector going into the reel. Can I replace that last section with hozelock without needing to replace the rest of the push fit pipework?

The very nature of Speedfit/John Guest push in fittings is that the pipe mustn't move or turn. Its meant for stationary plumbing works.

If you look at the photos of the inside of the fitting you will see a sealing O ring and the a 'disc with teeth. These dig into the plastic pipe to stop it from coming out under pressure. Here's an example.

https://www.thespruce.com/push-fit-fittings-2718690

I've just looked at a Speedfit T piece and they have plastic 'fingers' with a metal insert to grip the pipe being pushed in and O rings to seal for leaks. So no, you need to have a flexible length of hose to the hose reel using a tap connector and hose connector. There are other versions of that will also work.

Here's an example;

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/hozelock-type-brass-hose-reel-fitting-swivel-elbow.html

This might be of help I don't know, but you will still need to have a reasonable length of hose to account for movement and maintenance.

https://www.aquacure.co.uk/push-fit-connectors/tube-to-hose-connector-15mm-push-fit-x-12-hose-barb-nc448

It looks like you will have to redo the pipe work I'm afraid. Sorry.

 

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Iron Giant

I am surprised anyone would a fit a system like that with push fit pipe work with some many connectors as well that could potentially fail more so if they are cheap fittings 

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Delabrum
2 hours ago, spruce said:

The very nature of Speedfit/John Guest push in fittings is that the pipe mustn't move or turn. Its meant for stationary plumbing works.

If you look at the photos of the inside of the fitting you will see a sealing O ring and the a 'disc with teeth. These dig into the plastic pipe to stop it from coming out under pressure. Here's an example.

https://www.thespruce.com/push-fit-fittings-2718690

I've just looked at a Speedfit T piece and they have plastic 'fingers' with a metal insert to grip the pipe being pushed in and O rings to seal for leaks. So no, you need to have a flexible length of hose to the hose reel using a tap connector and hose connector. There are other versions of that will also work.

Here's an example;

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/hozelock-type-brass-hose-reel-fitting-swivel-elbow.html

This might be of help I don't know, but you will still need to have a reasonable length of hose to account for movement and maintenance.

https://www.aquacure.co.uk/push-fit-connectors/tube-to-hose-connector-15mm-push-fit-x-12-hose-barb-nc448

It looks like you will have to redo the pipe work I'm afraid. Sorry.

 

Thanks for the links. I’m going to see how it goes this week. I’ve attached some cable ties from the T joint to the reel - that will hopefully make it nigh on impossible for the pipes to come loose (for now at least). If I’m still having problems then I will replace the pipework with hozelock connections/flexible hose.

3 hours ago, Jango said:

I have push fit pipework to my pump etc. But not to the reel. I use the same hose lock brass fitting as @spruce. I have a diy electric reel, flexible hose. Odd time it leaks then I have to replace the brass elbow. 

How have you set this up when Spruce is saying it’s not really possible? I’m intrigued as to how you did it.

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Jango
2 hours ago, Delabrum said:

Thanks for the links. I’m going to see how it goes this week. I’ve attached some cable ties from the T joint to the reel - that will hopefully make it nigh on impossible for the pipes to come loose (for now at least). If I’m still having problems then I will replace the pipework with hozelock connections/flexible hose.

How have you set this up when Spruce is saying it’s not really possible? I’m intrigued as to how you did it.

I think @spruce is saying not possible with the reel. Which it isn’t. You’ve experienced that, hence the leaking all over. 
@ iron giant I agree with what he says. In all honesty I didn’t fit my van out a friend did, I do have a few connections and joints that could leak, but in 3 years I haven’t even had a drip. The problem I have had is with the metal hose lock fitting leaking, which I have had to change. 
I honestly don’t see the point of asking for help, then attaching cable ties hoping it’s going to work, it’s much easier to change it, and enjoy your work rather than been frustrated with leaks, get the bits ordered and change it over. Save yourself the misery. It’s well worth it. These guys have helped me so much they are a great team.

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Delabrum
4 minutes ago, Jango said:

I think @spruce is saying not possible with the reel. Which it isn’t. You’ve experienced that, hence the leaking all over. 
@ iron giant I agree with what he says. In all honesty I didn’t fit my van out a friend did, I do have a few connections and joints that could leak, but in 3 years I haven’t even had a drip. The problem I have had is with the metal hose lock fitting leaking, which I have had to change. 
I honestly don’t see the point of asking for help, then attaching cable ties hoping it’s going to work, it’s much easier to change it, and enjoy your work rather than been frustrated with leaks, get the bits ordered and change it over. Save yourself the misery. It’s well worth it. These guys have helped me so much they are a great team.

I probably didn’t explain myself well enough, I’m resigned to the fact that I’m going to have to change it. But it’s Sunday afternoon, I need a stop gap for this week so I can work (cable ties) and then I’ll do the job this coming weekend. 
 

Appreciate all the help guys. I bought the van off a good friend of mine who used this system for years and he swears he never had any problems. I think I’ll be roping him into helping me! 😁

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Iron Giant
30 minutes ago, Jango said:

I think @spruce is saying not possible with the reel. Which it isn’t. You’ve experienced that, hence the leaking all over. 
@ iron giant I agree with what he says. In all honesty I didn’t fit my van out a friend did, I do have a few connections and joints that could leak, but in 3 years I haven’t even had a drip. The problem I have had is with the metal hose lock fitting leaking, which I have had to change. 
I honestly don’t see the point of asking for help, then attaching cable ties hoping it’s going to work, it’s much easier to change it, and enjoy your work rather than been frustrated with leaks, get the bits ordered and change it over. Save yourself the misery. It’s well worth it. These guys have helped me so much they are a great team.

I may have jumped the gun a bit, so apologise if I seemed cheeky or harsh, but my thoughts are as we are working with systems under pressure once the water is turned off in between windows or jobs that's a fair amount of pressure so typically all systems are fitted out with hose and jubilee clips to withstand the pressure the fittings are under. 

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Delabrum
6 hours ago, spruce said:

The very nature of Speedfit/John Guest push in fittings is that the pipe mustn't move or turn. Its meant for stationary plumbing works.

If you look at the photos of the inside of the fitting you will see a sealing O ring and the a 'disc with teeth. These dig into the plastic pipe to stop it from coming out under pressure. Here's an example.

https://www.thespruce.com/push-fit-fittings-2718690

I've just looked at a Speedfit T piece and they have plastic 'fingers' with a metal insert to grip the pipe being pushed in and O rings to seal for leaks. So no, you need to have a flexible length of hose to the hose reel using a tap connector and hose connector. There are other versions of that will also work.

Here's an example;

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/hozelock-type-brass-hose-reel-fitting-swivel-elbow.html

This might be of help I don't know, but you will still need to have a reasonable length of hose to account for movement and maintenance.

https://www.aquacure.co.uk/push-fit-connectors/tube-to-hose-connector-15mm-push-fit-x-12-hose-barb-nc448

It looks like you will have to redo the pipe work I'm afraid. Sorry.

 

To clarify, can I keep the push fit pipework from the tank to the pump? Then change everything after the pump to flexi hose/hozelock connections? The pipework before the pump doesn’t move/leak at all. It’s just the stuff after the pump, particularly just before the reel, that’s causing us problems.

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Stevieboy

Yep 1/2 inch hose. Use the blue caravan hose if you want it to look nice. Between the pump and hose reel definitely. I wouldn’t use sped-fit anywhere on a van system where I could use 1/2 hose. Hose is a lot nicer to run around the van with less joints. 

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Jango
22 hours ago, Delabrum said:

I probably didn’t explain myself well enough, I’m resigned to the fact that I’m going to have to change it. But it’s Sunday afternoon, I need a stop gap for this week so I can work (cable ties) and then I’ll do the job this coming weekend. 
 

Appreciate all the help guys. I bought the van off a good friend of mine who used this system for years and he swears he never had any problems. I think I’ll be roping him into helping me! 😁

Ok. I understand. Once you change the reel connections and pipe work to hose it should be ok. 
Hope it lasts out this week for you. 

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Jango
22 hours ago, Iron Giant said:

I may have jumped the gun a bit, so apologise if I seemed cheeky or harsh, but my thoughts are as we are working with systems under pressure once the water is turned off in between windows or jobs that's a fair amount of pressure so typically all systems are fitted out with hose and jubilee clips to withstand the pressure the fittings are under. 

No problem at all. Mine is fitted with John Guest from tank to pump. It doesn’t leak, never as much as had a drip. But a friend fitted out my van for me. He used the same in his van. So I cannot through kindness in his face. Once it starts to leak or drip it will be changed over to hose. 
i have never come across anyOne  who push fit to the reel.

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Delabrum
45 minutes ago, Jango said:

Ok. I understand. Once you change the reel connections and pipe work to hose it should be ok. 
Hope it lasts out this week for you. 

Well it did well today, lasted all day no problems. Which is a vast improvement on Friday when the fittings came loose about six times 🙄

The more I’m beginning to understand about how WFP works the more I’m bemused as to why he installed push fit to the reel. I’m annoyed with myself that I didn’t do a little more research before I started using it, if I’d changed it over when I bought the van I’d probably have saved myself a days work with all the time I’ve spent messing around with it.

You live and learn right?

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Jango
7 minutes ago, Delabrum said:

Well it did well today, lasted all day no problems. Which is a vast improvement on Friday when the fittings came loose about six times 🙄

The more I’m beginning to understand about how WFP works the more I’m bemused as to why he installed push fit to the reel. I’m annoyed with myself that I didn’t do a little more research before I started using it, if I’d changed it over when I bought the van I’d probably have saved myself a days work with all the time I’ve spent messing around with it.

You live and learn right?

I can understand. I had an issue with the wfp. I took it to get it fixed and so regretted messing about with it. I so wished I had done it sooner. It’s the time and frustration you’ve wasted. But your right we live and learn. 

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