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Controller just stopping for no reason


Baldmonkey

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Hi all, I have a spring controller and over the past few days it has just decided to to keep stopping, I have a one shot remote, and that doesn't respond when it stops. 

Only way to get it going again is to turn the master switch off, leave 10 seconds then restart. 

Trouble is it only runs for a minute and does the same. Whilst running the battery is showing 12.4v could it be the battery is low so its stopping it? 

Ta

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What is displayed on the controller when it stops?

First thing I would do is to try re-calibrating the controller. Could be related to the hot weather we've been having....

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It runs fine then stop, just showing the number it's set too 80, then I kill the mai.switch and turn back on, if I do that straight away it flashes 80 then de then bat then stops

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Ian Sheppard
48 minutes ago, Baldmonkey said:

It runs fine then stop, just showing the number it's set too 80, then I kill the mai.switch and turn back on, if I do that straight away it flashes 80 then de then bat then stops

Hi If the controller is showing Bat then the issue is most likely due to low battery capacity ( amps) The controller has a built in volt meter that reads volts across the battery terminals. If the controller has stopped the pump and is displaying bat  at that point battery voltage is 10.5V or less.

Can I ask how is the battery charged and how old is it. also what is the AH size of the battery. Third what voltage is shown on teh controller when the pump is running

If for example the battery is only charged via a vehicle split relay over time the relay may not be putting back all the current used. And over a relatively short period the battery will have low capacity.

A worn battery that is not under load ( pump not running) will show a higher voltage than when the pump is running

 

For example with the pump off the battery might show 12.5V. When the pump runs and current is drawn the voltage wil fal a little to 12.1v to 12.3v a good condition battery will stay close to this level for 2 - 4 hours. But if the battery volts drop more than 0.5 of a volt as the pump starts or the volts fall quickly this is a sure sign of a worn/Low battery 

If the battery is relatively New then it may be recoverable by bench charging it for 12 - 24 hours using an mains charger

 

 

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Ian Sheppard

While Split relays are very useful at helping keep batteries topped up. Depending on mileage, alternator output and other factors a battery will need to be bench charged every so often to help keep the battery lead cells in good condition. As a general rule leisure batteries can be discharged up to 50% of their capacity at which point they need charging.

For example if the battery is an 80 AH this gives 40amps of usable energy running a flow rate of 80 a pump will draw 3 - 4 amps an hour. In this instance a battery would need bench charging after 10 hours use give or take.

A Variable split relay might put back between 5a and 7a an hour while the engine is running. Over a day if the engine runs for two hours it will put back 10amp to 14amp, Lets say the pump runs for 5 hours and will use 20amps. If the battery started at 80 amps with a split relay at the end of day one its now at 74a. after day 2 its down to 68amps.

In this case the battery would still need bench charging after 10 to 12 days to maintain its condition

Cheers

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Ian Sheppard
5 hours ago, Baldmonkey said:

Hi all, I have a spring controller and over the past few days it has just decided to to keep stopping, I have a one shot remote, and that doesn't respond when it stops. 

Only way to get it going again is to turn the master switch off, leave 10 seconds then restart. 

Trouble is it only runs for a minute and does the same. Whilst running the battery is showing 12.4v could it be the battery is low so its stopping it? 

Ta

Some additional thoughts on this one. When the controller stops what is shown on the display ? Also as a suggestion check to cables between the one shot and pump + Controller to make sure nothing is loose. Also worth checking the connections to the battery terminals are good

 

Cheers

 

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3 hours ago, Ian Sheppard said:

Hi If the controller is showing Bat then the issue is most likely due to low battery capacity ( amps) The controller has a built in volt meter that reads volts across the battery terminals. If the controller has stopped the pump and is displaying bat  at that point battery voltage is 10.5V or less.

Can I ask how is the battery charged and how old is it. also what is the AH size of the battery. Third what voltage is shown on teh controller when the pump is running

If for example the battery is only charged via a vehicle split relay over time the relay may not be putting back all the current used. And over a relatively short period the battery will have low capacity.

A worn battery that is not under load ( pump not running) will show a higher voltage than when the pump is running

 

For example with the pump off the battery might show 12.5V. When the pump runs and current is drawn the voltage wil fal a little to 12.1v to 12.3v a good condition battery will stay close to this level for 2 - 4 hours. But if the battery volts drop more than 0.5 of a volt as the pump starts or the volts fall quickly this is a sure sign of a worn/Low battery 

If the battery is relatively New then it may be recoverable by bench charging it for 12 - 24 hours using an mains charger

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Ian Sheppard said:

While Split relays are very useful at helping keep batteries topped up. Depending on mileage, alternator output and other factors a battery will need to be bench charged every so often to help keep the battery lead cells in good condition. As a general rule leisure batteries can be discharged up to 50% of their capacity at which point they need charging.

For example if the battery is an 80 AH this gives 40amps of usable energy running a flow rate of 80 a pump will draw 3 - 4 amps an hour. In this instance a battery would need bench charging after 10 hours use give or take.

A Variable split relay might put back between 5a and 7a an hour while the engine is running. Over a day if the engine runs for two hours it will put back 10amp to 14amp, Lets say the pump runs for 5 hours and will use 20amps. If the battery started at 80 amps with a split relay at the end of day one its now at 74a. after day 2 its down to 68amps.

In this case the battery would still need bench charging after 10 to 12 days to maintain its condition

Cheers

 

8 minutes ago, Ian Sheppard said:

Some additional thoughts on this one. When the controller stops what is shown on the display ? Also as a suggestion check to cables between the one shot and pump + Controller to make sure nothing is loose. Also worth checking the connections to the battery terminals are good

 

Cheers

 

Hi ian, thanks for the reply

Spoke with Philip at your place who was very helpful. Don't think battery is the issue as it was showing 12.6v and I even ran the engine with the split charge pumping 14v into the system.. I believe its actually down to an airlock in the system and the fact that air can be compressed is throwing up issues. 

 

I've spent the afternoon running high volume water through in the vain hope of removing the blockage. 

Battery's are 12 month old, 220ah and split charge relay /battery charger charged

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Ian Sheppard
1 minute ago, Baldmonkey said:

 

Hi ian, thanks for the reply

Spoke with Philip at your place who was very helpful. Don't think battery is the issue as it was showing 12.6v and I even ran the engine with the split charge pumping 14v into the system.. I believe its actually down to an airlock in the system and the fact that air can be compressed is throwing up issues. 

 

I've spent the afternoon running high volume water through in the vain hope of removing the blockage. 

Battery's are 12 month old, 220ah and split charge relay /battery charger charged

Thanks for the reply. Please let me know how you get on

 

Cheers

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Master Jedi Alejandro
4 hours ago, Ian Sheppard said:

While Split relays are very useful at helping keep batteries topped up. Depending on mileage, alternator output and other factors a battery will need to be bench charged every so often to help keep the battery lead cells in good condition. As a general rule leisure batteries can be discharged up to 50% of their capacity at which point they need charging.

For example if the battery is an 80 AH this gives 40amps of usable energy running a flow rate of 80 a pump will draw 3 - 4 amps an hour. In this instance a battery would need bench charging after 10 hours use give or take.

A Variable split relay might put back between 5a and 7a an hour while the engine is running. Over a day if the engine runs for two hours it will put back 10amp to 14amp, Lets say the pump runs for 5 hours and will use 20amps. If the battery started at 80 amps with a split relay at the end of day one its now at 74a. after day 2 its down to 68amps.

In this case the battery would still need bench charging after 10 to 12 days to maintain its condition

Cheers

Would a long run in the van sort this? I'm getting a B2B installed next month along with the system but my only worry is I don't drive enough to charge it up, however my van is my personal vehicle also and so it'll go longer distance on weekends depending if I'm doing anything. 

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Ian Sheppard
1 hour ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Would a long run in the van sort this? I'm getting a B2B installed next month along with the system but my only worry is I don't drive enough to charge it up, however my van is my personal vehicle also and so it'll go longer distance on weekends depending if I'm doing anything. 

Good question. In answer the amount of current going back in will be improved the longer the engine is running. But there are other factors in play such as the alternator output. In general after the engine is started the alternator will prioritise the vehicle battery for a period after the start and then other vehicle systems such as Air Con/heating lighting, instruments, radio and other vehicle electrical systems.

There is also the need to weigh up an extra hours driving in terms of Fuel, wear and tear and your time Versus the extra 7 amps that get put back into the battery. Or if a bench charge every 10 days or so is more economical

B2B chargers are different to Variable split relays. A VSR looks for a current spike to start charging typically 13v. and when amps fall below 12v they stop charging.  With some of the new Euro6 rated engines a straight VSR may not be suitable as the Alternator management reduces output according to the vehicle needs.

A B2B charger will continue to charge and will boost or reduce output dependant on the leisure battery being charged. B2B are less effected by the Alternator management system and better suited to Euro6 as I understand but my knowledge of B2B is limited compared to VSR and our Charging controllers which work in a different way to a standard VSR.

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Master Jedi Alejandro
22 minutes ago, Ian Sheppard said:

Good question. In answer the amount of current going back in will be improved the longer the engine is running. But there are other factors in play such as the alternator output. In general after the engine is started the alternator will prioritise the vehicle battery for a period after the start and then other vehicle systems such as Air Con/heating lighting, instruments, radio and other vehicle electrical systems.

There is also the need to weigh up an extra hours driving in terms of Fuel, wear and tear and your time Versus the extra 7 amps that get put back into the battery. Or if a bench charge every 10 days or so is more economical

B2B chargers are different to Variable split relays. A VSR looks for a current spike to start charging typically 13v. and when amps fall below 12v they stop charging.  With some of the new Euro6 rated engines a straight VSR may not be suitable as the Alternator management reduces output according to the vehicle needs.

A B2B charger will continue to charge and will boost or reduce output dependant on the leisure battery being charged. B2B are less effected by the Alternator management system and better suited to Euro6 as I understand but my knowledge of B2B is limited compared to VSR and our Charging controllers which work in a different way to a standard VSR.

Thank you for this, makes a lot more sense. And no I won't be driving it just to charge the battery, but since I use the van for personal use it means it'll be charged while I do so, is what I was wondering. 

Do you have a link to your charing controllers, I can't seem to figure out which company you are.

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scottish cleaning service

You will need to buy a trickle charge charger, 20amp I think. I bought one from Grippatank because I only do short journeys and in the winter i will have flat batteries after a heavy day cleaning windows. Better to be safe than sorry. 😉 

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5 hours ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Would a long run in the van sort this? I'm getting a B2B installed next month along with the system but my only worry is I don't drive enough to charge it up, however my van is my personal vehicle also and so it'll go longer distance on weekends depending if I'm doing anything. 

I have a Stirling charger, @sprucewill tell you the type. Whilst I do a lot of miles I can have 3 weeks where I do next to non. I've never had a problem with low battery levels during this period

 

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7 hours ago, Part Timer said:

I have a Stirling charger, @sprucewill tell you the type. Whilst I do a lot of miles I can have 3 weeks where I do next to non. I've never had a problem with low battery levels during this period

 

Either a Sterling BB1230 or a BB1260.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Thank you for this, makes a lot more sense. And no I won't be driving it just to charge the battery, but since I use the van for personal use it means it'll be charged while I do so, is what I was wondering. 

Do you have a link to your charing controllers, I can't seem to figure out which company you are.

The company Ian works for is Spring Europe and they manufacture the flow controllers we use.

I have a Stirling BB1260 battery to battery charger in my van. I still have to 'bench' charge my starter and leisure battery once a week these days in summer.

As an industry we make higher demands on our batteries than most others apart from the ambulances used by the nhs.

 

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15 hours ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

Would a long run in the van sort this? I'm getting a B2B installed next month along with the system but my only worry is I don't drive enough to charge it up, however my van is my personal vehicle also and so it'll go longer distance on weekends depending if I'm doing anything. 

The trouble depends if you have a smart alternator. If you do you won't be getting anywhere near enough charge going through to the leisure batteries. 

I've disconnected mine to produce the highest charge rate but still have a battery charger fitted and use it at least 2/3 times each week

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just to let everyone know that the culprit was an airlock in the system, i had been changing over a few bits and bobs and it created an airlock, once flushed everything was fine thanks

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Ian Sheppard
On 14/08/2020 at 20:33, Baldmonkey said:

just to let everyone know that the culprit was an airlock in the system, i had been changing over a few bits and bobs and it created an airlock, once flushed everything was fine thanks

Thank you for the update on this. Good news it was a straight forward to resolve.

 

Cheers

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