A few newbie questions if anyone would be kind enough to help

Hi Guys,

I'm just starting out and looking for my first set up and I'm in a bit of a dilema which way to go.

I'm got an L200 with canopy on the back that I can use until I have enough business to buy a van, but as its also our personal vehicle I can't have something installed permanently at the time being.

I do have some money for investment so I'm not necessarily looking for the cheapest option but at the same time I don't want to spend more than I need at this stage. So I was thinking of starting with a back pack and a load of 25L containers to start with.

Our nearest spotless water centre is about 45 mins away. I guess I could drive out to fill up there until business builds up, or do I look at making my own? 

I have a TDS meter and its reading around 240. Would a Di vessel alone be enough for this or am I going to be burning through resin?

Should I invest in a garage based system such as this https://ebay.us/y52YoH

Or is there any other solution you guys could kindly recommend? Is there any other form of removable system I could put in the bck of the truck and remove when needed?

thanks

If you can produce your own water. A cheap ro into a ibc storage tank where you can add membranes and also a booster pump as the business grows, would be my advice. I would not want to be dependent on Spotless. 
Tank in the truck or backpack and barrels, both will make it wet. There is residual water held in the pole hose and brush.. the truck will get wet. 
Where in Staffs are you?

minty

Thanks fo the reply mate, I'm in sunny Stafford so would mean driving to Telford. I did wonder about relying on spotless tbh plus its a pain in the ass to drive there.

Its ok for the back of the truck to get wet. Ive got a tub liner in there.

With wfp having a large tank isn't ideal in a pickup if it is used as family transport as well.

Someones law will always tell you that you will aways have a fully tank of water when you need the back to transport something else. If you have just spent £13 on 300 litres of water and travelled 90 minutes to get it you aren't going to be happy dumping it.

10 minutes ago, spruce said:

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Thanks fo that vid thats pretty helpful actually. I never thought about knocking together a cheap system of my own but I do have the space so perhaps I should give it a go. I don't have your DIY skills though, its knowing all what connectors etc I would need.

Cris78 said:

Thanks fo that vid thats pretty helpful actually. I never thought about knocking together a cheap system of my own but I do have the space so perhaps I should give it a go. I don't have your DIY skills though, its knowing all what connectors etc I would need.

Click to expand...

There is no way I would be purifying water at 240ppm with resin. It will cost you a fortune. The other thing is that good resin is in short supply and has been for quite a while due to a number of factors.

My first port of call would be @doug atkinsonfrom Daqua. He will fix you up with a 'small' r/o suitable for window cleaning. I would look to a 300gpd minimum. A good r/o will have top quality membranes which are expensive but will save money in the long term. You will also need a DI vessel with resin.

There are a lot of cheaper r/o's out there which focus on the drinks market. The membranes are usually cheap Chinese made ones - they don't have to perform that efficiently. The less efficiently a membrane performs in window cleaning speak, the more its going to cost you on resin to polish the pure off.

Pump boxes are sold as an item if you are unsure about making one yourself. There are plenty of videos on YouTube about making a trolley, so searching for those will show you basically how to build your own pump box. I would tend to buy a pump and controller kit and add an 85amph leisure battery to it.

@Apw1210built one and put up a list of components needed some time back.

If you have space in a garage then I would always recommend a used 1000 IBC tank to process water into. Its probably the same price as 2 water butts. Water butts will be easier to drop a subpump into to transfer water into your 25 liter plastic containers. You will need to keep your r/o from freezing temperatures during the winter.

There is a local lad in the next village who has a small box trailer. He has around 15 plastic containers in the back and tows this with what at one time was the family Mondeo. He has operated this way for nearly 10 years. The Mondeo is now totally devoted to window cleaning. He uses a Purefreedom trolley.

Another thing you will have to look at is a telescopic pole. Most will suggest an SLX25 or CLX27 from Gardiners. You must check that you can store a collapsed pole in the back of your pickup.

Then you will need to look for customers.

spruce said:

There is no way I would be purifying water at 240ppm with resin. It will cost you a fortune. The other thing is that good resin is in short supply and has been for quite a while due to a number of factors.

My first port of call would be @doug atkinsonfrom Daqua. He will fix you up with a 'small' r/o suitable for window cleaning. I would look to a 300gpd minimum. A good r/o will have top quality membranes which are expensive but will save money in the long term. You will also need a DI vessel with resin.

There are a lot of cheaper r/o's out there which focus on the drinks market. The membranes are usually cheap Chinese made ones - they don't have to perform that efficiently. The less efficiently a membrane performs in window cleaning speak, the more its going to cost you on resin to polish the pure off.

Pump boxes are sold as an item if you are unsure about making one yourself. There are plenty of videos on YouTube about making a trolley, so searching for those will show you basically how to build your own pump box. I would tend to buy a pump and controller kit and add an 85amph leisure battery to it.

@Apw1210built one and put up a list of components needed some time back.

If you have space in a garage then I would always recommend a used 1000 IBC tank to process water into. Its probably the same price as 2 water butts. Water butts will be easier to drop a subpump into to transfer water into your 25 liter plastic containers. You will need to keep your r/o from freezing temperatures during the winter.

There is a local lad in the next village who has a small box trailer. He has around 15 plastic containers in the back and tows this with what at one time was the family Mondeo. He has operated this way for nearly 10 years. The Mondeo is now totally devoted to window cleaning. He uses a Purefreedom trolley.

Another thing you will have to look at is a telescopic pole. Most will suggest an SLX25 or CLX27 from Gardiners. You must check that you can store a collapsed pole in the back of your pickup.

Then you will need to look for customers.

Click to expand...

Thanks again. I was looking at this for a cheaper starting point but Inwinder if it is one of the cheaper Chinese ones you’ve mentioned. The guy does sell it for window cleaning purposes but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251382889484
 

it’s from http://www.collinswaterproductsltd.co.uk

spruce said:

There is no way I would be purifying water at 240ppm with resin. It will cost you a fortune. The other thing is that good resin is in short supply and has been for quite a while due to a number of factors.

My first port of call would be @doug atkinsonfrom Daqua. He will fix you up with a 'small' r/o suitable for window cleaning. I would look to a 300gpd minimum. A good r/o will have top quality membranes which are expensive but will save money in the long term. You will also need a DI vessel with resin.

There are a lot of cheaper r/o's out there which focus on the drinks market. The membranes are usually cheap Chinese made ones - they don't have to perform that efficiently. The less efficiently a membrane performs in window cleaning speak, the more its going to cost you on resin to polish the pure off.

Pump boxes are sold as an item if you are unsure about making one yourself. There are plenty of videos on YouTube about making a trolley, so searching for those will show you basically how to build your own pump box. I would tend to buy a pump and controller kit and add an 85amph leisure battery to it.

@Apw1210built one and put up a list of components needed some time back.

If you have space in a garage then I would always recommend a used 1000 IBC tank to process water into. Its probably the same price as 2 water butts. Water butts will be easier to drop a subpump into to transfer water into your 25 liter plastic containers. You will need to keep your r/o from freezing temperatures during the winter.

There is a local lad in the next village who has a small box trailer. He has around 15 plastic containers in the back and tows this with what at one time was the family Mondeo. He has operated this way for nearly 10 years. The Mondeo is now totally devoted to window cleaning. He uses a Purefreedom trolley.

Another thing you will have to look at is a telescopic pole. Most will suggest an SLX25 or CLX27 from Gardiners. You must check that you can store a collapsed pole in the back of your pickup.

Then you will need to look for customers.

Click to expand...

I'm always here to help if you want to build a pump trolley or box, It's simple and all you need is an understanding of reading a tape measure not colour blind and can use a drill and basic soldering skills 








Once again, Many thanks for the mention @spruce

20 minutes ago, Apw1210 said:

I'm always here to help if you want to build a pump trolley or box, It's simple and all you need is an understanding of reading a tape measure not colour blind and can use a drill and basic soldering skills 

Click to expand...

That is a cracking job! fair play. look the part too with your logo 

Cris78 said:

Thanks again. I was looking at this for a cheaper starting point but Inwinder if it is one of the cheaper Chinese ones you’ve mentioned. The guy does sell it for window cleaning purposes but...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251382889484
 

it’s from http://www.collinswaterproductsltd.co.uk

Click to expand...

I don't have an axe to grind with Collins Water. They supply Chinese manufactured membranes which is one way they are able to reduce costs and hence sell product a little cheaper. Daqua test each of their r/o's before shipping it to you.

Many years ago Collins Water targeted the drinks and aquatics industry for r/o products. They didn't mention window cleaning applications once on their website.

Then they discovered that window cleaners were a good portion of their customers when selling on Ebay because so many window cleaners buy on price. They then started to add window cleaning to their list of applications. But the aftermath is that these cleaners then come onto the forums complaining about high rejection rate with the pure their r/o's are generating.

Lets have a look at a membrane for a 4040 they are advertising (my comments in red.)

HID RT-40/40 LP (HID = Chinese made.)

THIS IS A HIGH FLOW MEMBRANE

WITH REDUCTION RATES OF 90% TO 98% (So which is it? (98% rejection (not reduction) rate is good but 90% is poor. Polishing of those excess 27ppm from your water is going to see a bigger resin bill.)

The optimum working pressure for this membrane is 140psi. (Low pressure? No way. Even with a booster pump we aren't going to see that psi.)

We have extensively tested our membranes and achieve the following test results: (If they have done this then why such a big difference in rejection rates.)

Test parameters

Mains water input pressure 75psi (It might be 75psi in Chesterfield but I haven't heard of anyone boasting about their high water pressure in Sheffield.

input water tds reading 274ppm

With the above parameters test results achieved are;

production 2.7ltrs per min

output tds reading 8ppm or less (?? That is a 97% rejection rate; if that is 8ppm or better, where does the 90% rejection rate come from?)

Price £163.99 + VAT.

Now we go to Daqua.

An Axeon HF5 is a USA manufactured membrane advertised as low pressure. Low pressure to the American manufacturers is 80 to 100psi. I run my HF5 at 50psi. Its 7 years old. When I first fitted it my rejection rate was 98% and has slowly dropped to 97% over the years.

Price is £271.67 + VAT with delivery included.

Unfortunately some window cleaners will buy the HID membrane because they will save £130 on the initial purchase.

But when they start calculating the extra resin cost they will soon see that the cheaper membrane will cost them much more when adding the extra resin usage. We have often seen posts from windie getting 90 to 93% rejection rates on their HID membrane purchases.

Hi Chris,

We have a van which we are about to sell for £2700, it's a Vauxhall vivaro 56 plate with a 500l ionics Pure2o system if your interested.

I use a pick up truck and have a 500L tank fitted by GrippaTank.  I also use it as a family vehicle.  It can be done but I have lost the use of the cargo area.  I would recommend you have a second car or not have a tank permanently fitted, which seems to be the case in your instance.

My poles fit diagonally across the top of the tank, and my extensions slot down the side of the tank.  I also have an electric reel and smart battery installed which takes up the remaining floor space.

One thing I would advise, is the earlier L200 models have a shorter cargo space so I would check this.

Damon Probert said:

Hi Chris,

We have a van which we are about to sell for £2700, it's a Vauxhall vivaro 56 plate with a 500l ionics Pure2o system if your interested.

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Thanks Damon you have sent me the details. Van looks like its earned her keep but its not a bad set up at all. I am seriously thinking about it although I wasn't planing on that sort of expense at this time. you're not to far rfom me either