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Adding gutter cleaning to window cleaning business - separate declaration required to HMRC?


DanielLondon

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DanielLondon

Hello there.

Finally have a question of my own to ask and would appreciate your comments.

Run a window cleaning business and have now added gutter cleaning in to the mix. Will HMRC see it as a new business and will I have to declare income/expenses separately? 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Daniel

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1 hour ago, DanielLondon said:

Hello there.

Finally have a question of my own to ask and would appreciate your comments.

Run a window cleaning business and have now added gutter cleaning in to the mix. Will HMRC see it as a new business and will I have to declare income/expenses separately? 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Daniel

 Any payment has to be declared, it is up to you if you want to set up another business or run it through your current one. If you do set up another business you will need to trade under a different name and have separate equipment, van for instance, otherwise HMRC might look it as trying to avoid VAT registration. You will probably have to inform your Liability Insurer that you are also clearing gutters as well.

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how will they know, gutter cleaning is not really a weekly work or job.      id class it as add on.      they are not always there to do.

i wont tell them if you dont.

class it as cash in your pocket.

 

same as FACIA cleaning 

Edited by johnny bravo
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You don't need to tell HMRC about what business you run or what services you provide. You do need to declare all income and expenditure on your yearly tax return!

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6 hours ago, johnny bravo said:

how will they know, gutter cleaning is not really a weekly work or job.      id class it as add on.      they are not always there to do.

i wont tell them if you dont.

class it as cash in your pocket.

 

same as FACIA cleaning 

Lol that’s asking for trouble always best to declare all income I had a new customer years ago ask me would I do his windows cheaper for cash , I said no I declare all my earnings and pay  the relevant tax on all my earnings , he laughed and said it was worth a try , and then added he worked for HMRC tax office 😂😂😂 

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The other reason to declare all your income is if you need a mortgage or other finance they will want to see your tax return forms from previous years!!! So under declaring might mean you can't get the mortgage, van lease, or loan you want!

Saying nothing about paying your way - OK so I know big companies and the wealthy will use elaborate schemes to not pay their way(unfortunately mainly legal - wont go into that one 🙂 ) but doesn't mean you should. If you get audited then you will pay big time. The rich and big companies can afford very expensive lawyers!

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1 hour ago, Pjj said:

Lol that’s asking for trouble always best to declare all income I had a new customer years ago ask me would I do his windows cheaper for cash , I said no I declare all my earnings and pay  the relevant tax on all my earnings , he laughed and said it was worth a try , and then added he worked for HMRC tax office 😂😂😂 

I declare everything.. even the softwash jobs that are paid cash😇🤣

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9 hours ago, DanielLondon said:

Hello there.

Finally have a question of my own to ask and would appreciate your comments.

Run a window cleaning business and have now added gutter cleaning in to the mix. Will HMRC see it as a new business and will I have to declare income/expenses separately? 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Daniel

It's simply an extra service you are offering alongside window cleaning, I add all services I offer into cleaner planner and all jobs whatever service is provided is declared earnings no matter what method of payment,

 

1 hour ago, ched999uk said:

The other reason to declare all your income is if you need a mortgage or other finance they will want to see your tax return forms from previous years!!! So under declaring might mean you can't get the mortgage

I agree, more so now as it's common practice because of uncertainty due to covid that mortgage lenders are undervaluing houses anything from 10k up to 50k or more when they do a valuation for the purposes of new mortgage if a LTV is low then some people will be totally knackered. 

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13 hours ago, DanielLondon said:

Hello there.

Finally have a question of my own to ask and would appreciate your comments.

Run a window cleaning business and have now added gutter cleaning in to the mix. Will HMRC see it as a new business and will I have to declare income/expenses separately? 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Daniel

U can do 2 things....

1: Keep it simple... just offer gutter service as an additional service to your current window cleaning business
2: Make a new business offering gutter jobs etc

Verdict:

1: A lot more simple and less stress for u keeping the business all in 1

2: If u set up as a sole trader doing gutter jobs etc then the VAT man will come and  see you as trying to avoid paying VAT,,, remember if your planning on setting up a new business dont intend on using the same van for both businesses because the VAT man will class the business to be all 1 business and not 2
 

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I think you are referring to SIC codes. Classifications of what services you conduct. This can be used by hmrc to determine validity of expenses etc. 
example. If I’m down for window cleaning SIc code as a limited company. But am buying hydraulic trolley jacks and similar garage tools this would require some explanation.

It is a commonly expected occurrence for for window cleaners to conduct gutter services so I would be reluctant to split the business unless you have good reason you are happy to justify to an auditor.

or else it will look like an aggressive avoidance measure, especially if your combined turnover is over 85k as part timer eludes to.
in some instances they will backdate amendments/penalties.

declare everything and consult with a tax professional. 

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  • 5 weeks later...
Quickwindowclean
On 22/10/2020 at 09:24, DanielLondon said:

Hello there.

Finally have a question of my own to ask and would appreciate your comments.

Run a window cleaning business and have now added gutter cleaning in to the mix. Will HMRC see it as a new business and will I have to declare income/expenses separately? 

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Daniel

Hi mate.

Its doable but as mentioned previously you would have to really be diligent to the point where it won't be worth it different van different accounts.

It's well known that gutter cleaning and pressure washing are add-ons of window cleaning the revenue would also even consider gardening work as an add-on of your existing business.

The only time you would really get in any potential bother is if you are close to the VAT threshold and these extra services would potentially take you over hence the revenue would lose out on VAT on your entire turnover

If you're close to vat or paying vat You're far better to just charge that little bit extra to cover it. I know you might just lose the job but things will change soon when they lower the threshold etc.

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Can't you just change your business description on your next tax return if you're a sole trader? For instance, if your business description was `Window cleaning services`, can't you just put 'cleaning services' on the next one to cover all types of services?

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2 hours ago, Skxawng said:

Can't you just change your business description on your next tax return if you're a sole trader? For instance, if your business description was `Window cleaning services`, can't you just put 'cleaning services' on the next one to cover all types of services?

No u cant do this , if hes working from the same van he uses for window cleaning and does gutter jobs from the same van aswell then it is classed as once business 😄

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11 minutes ago, harunh said:

No u cant do this , if hes working from the same van he uses for window cleaning and does gutter jobs from the same van aswell then it is classed as once business 😄

That is exactly what @Skxawngjust said..

Changing the name to refect that is allowed. 

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Yeah, it's fine to slightly alter the description of your business on a sole trader tax return. IIRC there used to be a box to tick to say whether the business name or description had changed during the tax year - not sure if that's still the case, probably won't look at my tax return until 28th January! - but changing from "window cleaning" to "cleaning services" or "exterior cleaning" won't cause any bother.

In real life, what HMRC are interested in is keeping different trades or professions undertaken by an individual separate for income tax purposes. That's really not an issue when it comes to adding a bit of gutter clearing or pressure washing. 👍

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6 minutes ago, Sierra said:

Yeah, it's fine to slightly alter the description of your business on a sole trader tax return. IIRC there used to be a box to tick to say whether the business name or description had changed during the tax year - not sure if that's still the case, probably won't look at my tax return until 28th January! - but changing from "window cleaning" to "cleaning services" or "exterior cleaning" won't cause any bother.

In real life, what HMRC are interested in is keeping different trades or professions undertaken by an individual separate for income tax purposes. That's really not an issue when it comes to adding a bit of gutter clearing or pressure washing. 👍

Yes there is still a box for that.

I changed business name and direction a while ago and just ticked the box and put new name and description. 

Edited by Dave B
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Does anyone have any idea how much scope the business description can cover? For instance, Window cleaning and gutter cleaning are similar and can be grouped together as cleaning. But can I change my description next year to "Window cleaning services and manufacturing and sales of Window cleaning equipment"? Or is that not allowed? 

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7 hours ago, Skxawng said:

Does anyone have any idea how much scope the business description can cover? For instance, Window cleaning and gutter cleaning are similar and can be grouped together as cleaning. But can I change my description next year to "Window cleaning services and manufacturing and sales of Window cleaning equipment"? Or is that not allowed? 

I suppose if you are running it as one business it would be fine.

It's all related.

It's not like it's window cleaning and car repairs 

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