Jump to content

Best way to mount a water tank with cage


Recommended Posts

Guys, I've recently built a a steel frame for my 400l tank and was wondering whats the best method to secure the frame to the van, do I got with standard nuts and bolts or would rivnuts be an easier option?  

 

Thanks in advance. 

Link to post
1 minute ago, MrAdam said:

Guys, I've recently built a a steel frame for my 400l tank and was wondering whats the best method to secure the frame to the van, do I got with standard nuts and bolts or would rivnuts be an easier option?  

 

Thanks in advance. 

Rib nuts are a no no ,you need  high tensile steel bolts and spreader plates with my lock nuts , . 

Link to post
29 minutes ago, MrAdam said:

Guys, I've recently built a a steel frame for my 400l tank and was wondering whats the best method to secure the frame to the van, do I got with standard nuts and bolts or would rivnuts be an easier option?  

 

Thanks in advance. 

Sorry. Please don't take offense but when you ask a question like this I would be concerned about the strength of the steel frame you have welded up.

Your question indicates to me that you don't grasp the impact of having a 400 liter tank full of water under sudden braking or if you are involved in an accident.

The G forces involved will be substantial. It reminds us of the young window cleaner who was killed in a very minor bumper bashing accident in Norfolk a few years ago. The tank in the back of his VW Caddy van slid forward and impaled him on the steering column.

Securing a tank in the back of a van is best left to those who know what they are doing.

  • Agree 3
Link to post
6 hours ago, MrAdam said:

Guys, I've recently built a a steel frame for my 400l tank and was wondering whats the best method to secure the frame to the van, do I got with standard nuts and bolts or would rivnuts be an easier option?  

 

Thanks in advance. 

The way I've done it personally is as follows.

 

DISCLAIMER this is only a guide, if you do not have the relevant technical and engineering skills you could damage your vehicle or endanger your life. 

mark the correct position of your planned installation on the van floor.

check for electrical cables, brake & fuel lines, fuel tank, spare wheel or any other physical obstructions.

Source some M8 or M10 high tensile bolts, M8 or M10 x 30mm washers along with nyloc nuts and the corresponding length to tank frame 8mm flat bar stock or 3mm wall thickness 25x25mm box steel tubing and drill the corresponding templated tank cage holes into that. 

All metalwork that will under body needs to be prepped primer coated and then I'd personally spray it with stone chip once in position.

Do not use rivnuts on a structural installation as they are as much use as a squeegee with no rubber.

Edited by Apw1210
  • Agree 2
Link to post

The bolts should go completely through the floor of the van then, as the van floor is just sheet steel you need to spread the load across as wide an area of the under floor as possible. In an ideal world a rectangular frame that matched the foot print of your tank frame would be used to sandwich the floor with. The problem is the underside of the floor isn't flat. It might have chassis rails or lines for fuel and brakes plus electrical cable runs, fuel tank, filler pipe, spare wheel etc.... So you need to make spreader plates as large as possible. Just think of them as huge washers under the floor, don't just use washers as the potential force from a sudden stop would rip them through the floor.

Link to post
5 hours ago, spruce said:

It reminds us of the young window cleaner who was killed in a very minor bumper bashing accident in Norfolk a few years ago. The tank in the back of his VW Caddy van slid forward and impaled him on the steering column

That's a nasty way to go and has put disturbing thoughts in my head.

Did he have a bulkhead or was it one of those little mesh things?

Link to post
3 minutes ago, Tango said:

That's a nasty way to go and has put disturbing thoughts in my head.

Did he have a bulkhead or was it one of those little mesh things?

It was a mesh type bulk head , but speed was very low so shows the importance of fitting the tank correctly Evan of its only a couple of hundred ltr 

Link to post
1 hour ago, Tango said:

That's a nasty way to go and has put disturbing thoughts in my head.

Did he have a bulkhead or was it one of those little mesh things?

I'm sorry. This is why we bang on about doing the job properly.

Even cash tested frames and tanks are only tested at 30mph. Anything above that and we don't stand much of a chance. It's something which is always on my mind when driving.

I don't know the full details of how he was transporting his tank or how it was secured. The report was that his tank skid forward and squashed him into his steering wheel. @Pjj knows more about it than I do.

I have had 2 vans in the past 12 years. Both vans didn't have a steel bulkhead in when I bought them. I sorted out factory fit bulkheads as they are much stronger than the tin can bulkheads sold by accessory shops.

I did the same with my son's van. He has a steel factory fit steel bulkhead in his Citroen Berlingo.

My current van has 5 mountings through the chassis rails and 4 with spreader plates through the van floor.

I drive like an old granny, especially when the tank is full of water. This isn't a 100% guarantee I will get out of an accident alive. I've put into practice much of the training we got when the wife and I took an advanced drivers course about 40 years ago.

 

 

Edited by spruce
Link to post
1 hour ago, Pjj said:

It was a mesh type bulk head , but speed was very low so shows the importance of fitting the tank correctly Evan of its only a couple of hundred ltr 

Poor sod. That really is a nasty way to go. I can only hope it doesn't happen to anyone else.

I've seen a few horror fittings at my old filling place. I saw one guy driving a vauxhall corsa looking van with a 250L upright tank fitted. Sure he had a bulkhead (i think) but just 2 ratchet straps and not the strongest of vehicles. Worse they literally strapped the tank to the bulkhead in a way that it couldn't move side to side - but there was no straps to pull back on it to stop it moving forwards into the cabin. Nuts.

 

 

Link to post
7 hours ago, Tango said:

Poor sod. That really is a nasty way to go. I can only hope it doesn't happen to anyone else.

I've seen a few horror fittings at my old filling place. I saw one guy driving a vauxhall corsa looking van with a 250L upright tank fitted. Sure he had a bulkhead (i think) but just 2 ratchet straps and not the strongest of vehicles. Worse they literally strapped the tank to the bulkhead in a way that it couldn't move side to side - but there was no straps to pull back on it to stop it moving forwards into the cabin. Nuts.

 

 

In the early days we had a wfp  supplier up in our neck of the woods. They fitted a 400 litre flat tank in a Vauxhall Combo van. They secured the metal frame to the van's floor with nutserts.. The only back 2 bolts had pulled the nutserts out of the floor with normal day to day running. 

Thankfully this company no longer exists.

We also have a cowboy window cleaning business around this area as well. They have fitted most of their vans out with 1000 liter ibc tanks held in with thin cargo ratchet straps that you get in B&Q.

Edited by spruce
Link to post

I welded my own frame with 2 bars that covered the 6 already existing D rings  in the floor. I removed the D rings and bolted the frame down with high tensile bolts.

Link to post
3 hours ago, spruce said:

We also have a cowboy window cleaning business around this area as well. They have fitted most of their vans out with 1000 liter ibc tanks held in with thin cargo ratchet straps that you get in B&Q.

Jesus... 1000L and cargo straps. That's just ****ing stupid.

Anyone remember the old batman TV series? - Batman and robin get trapped in a room with walls that close in on them and spikes sticking out. I keen thinking that WFP tanks need a panel full of spikes in front of them so that in the event of a crash, they are punctured all over the front and disperse the water sideways rather than let it carry on forward. 

Link to post
1 hour ago, Tango said:

Jesus... 1000L and cargo straps. That's just ****ing stupid.

Anyone remember the old batman TV series? - Batman and robin get trapped in a room with walls that close in on them and spikes sticking out. I keen thinking that WFP tanks need a panel full of spikes in front of them so that in the event of a crash, they are punctured all over the front and disperse the water sideways rather than let it carry on forward. 

These are the type of straps

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Heavy-Duty-Ratchet-Straps-Tie-Down-Cargo-Luggage-Van-Orange-4-6m-15-x-1-25mm/253807740285?hash=item3b181ec57d:g:~-AAAOSwmN1bmNgQ

I have a set of them myself but not to secure a tank. We used them to secure a motorbike onto a trailer a couple of months ago. The motorcycle didn't fall off so they worked well for that but I would never consider their use to secure a tank.

 

Link to post
2 hours ago, best said:

I welded my own frame with 2 bars that covered the 6 already existing D rings  in the floor. I removed the D rings and bolted the frame down with high tensile bolts.

I don't know your van but have a look under the van at how the D-ring bolt holes fix to the chassis! I suspect they are not via decent spreader plates. 

Link to post
2 hours ago, ched999uk said:

I don't know your van but have a look under the van at how the D-ring bolt holes fix to the chassis! I suspect they are not via decent spreader plates. 

Probably spot welded in 2 or 3 places to the van's floor like they are on my Peugeot Boxer SWB van I have atm.

I wouldn't have any issue using them as tie downs for light items but there is no way I would use them to secure my tank.

I do worry about the number of window cleaners who proudly show photos of their DIY tank setups that are strapped into place with light duty straps to the D Rings. We regularly warn these guys about the dangers of poorly secured loads but some just don't listen.

I remember a cleaner who showed photos of his DIY master piece on the other forum. A few of us pointed out his strapping wasn't sufficient was secure his tank. A few years later he was showing a new addition to his equipment. There in the background was his tank, still secured in the same way. "Its been fine since I fitted it so what are you on about?"

The first window cleaning van I look at on Ebay today:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-Scudo-Window-cleaning-van/174509623651?hash=item28a1958963:g:eXUAAOSw7AhfpxdY

Edited by spruce
  • Agree 2
Link to post
11 hours ago, spruce said:

We also have a cowboy window cleaning business around this area as well. They have fitted most of their vans out with 1000 liter ibc tanks held in with thin cargo ratchet straps that you get in B&Q.

Now who may you be talking about 🤔 I think I could hazard a guess 

  • Haha 2
Link to post
11 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:

Now who may you be talking about 🤔 I think I could hazard a guess 

Actually, the last time I saw one of their vans the stuff was just wedged inside with nothing securing it.😱

The driver had no idea what I was on about. I wonder if he is still alive?

Edited by spruce
Link to post
28 minutes ago, spruce said:

Actually, the last time I saw one of their vans the stuff was just wedged inside with nothing securing it.😱

The driver had no idea what I was on about. I wonder if he is still alive?

I can't say I'm surprised, duty of care out of the window 🤯

Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.