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Buying rounds....I have questions.....


Bongofish

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1. Is this a contractual agreement?

2. How does the person buying the round know they haven't gave you customers that are not actually real?

3. Has anyone ever sold a round to make quick cash and then carried on window cleaning new customers? 

4. What if you sold a round to someone and then set up again and your original customers come back to you?

5. Because rounds are not cheap how does it work, surely you can't just give someone a list of 300 customers and they transfer you £5,000?

 

Trust me I'm not thinking about selling or buying but really interested in why anyone would do it and why anyone would trust the person selling that all customers are happy willing paying customers? 

Bongo

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The seller should show you and ware possible introduce you to the customers ,

All you are buying is good will , they might not like you or want you to do there windows , the one selling the round shouldn’t take back any customers for an agreed amount of time , a lot of this process is trust between the two of you , I have sold loads over the years and have always had a agreement with the buyer that I won’t take customers back for 6 months unless the reason for them wanting me to take them back is due to poor workmanship or unreliability on behalf of the new cleaner , I have never had any issues with the ones I have sold work to , if I get a complaint from the customer about there work i phone  the new cleaner and tell him to go and see them and sort it  out . 

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6 minutes ago, Pjj said:

The seller should show you and ware possible introduce you to the customers ,

All you are buying is good will , they might not like you or want you to do there windows , the one selling the round shouldn’t take back any customers for an agreed amount of time , a lot of this process is trust between the two of you , I have sold loads over the years and have always had a agreement with the buyer that I won’t take customers back for 6 months unless the reason for them wanting me to take them back is due to poor workmanship or unreliability on behalf of the new cleaner , I have never had any issues with the ones I have sold work to , if I get a complaint from the customer about there work i phone  the new cleaner and tell him to go and see them and sort it  out . 

A d when you sell , it's just a gentlemen's agreement,? Can't buy a carrot from Asda without someone trying to sue them for it, so wondering how someone trusts you enough to just give you thousands of pounds and your saying you may take the customers back after only 6 months? 

It may very well work like this, but I wouldn't want to transfer Bob down the road 4 grand for a round that he may take back after 6 months 😂🤷 ( and that's only on his word, as far as I'm aware he may take them back after 2 weeks and there's nothing legally I could do about it) 

Edited by Bongofish
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Can one ask if this "buying a round" a recent phenomenon?

Much as I would love to buy a round in my areas, I would be extremely cautious and ensure due diligence is carried out because there are no guarantees of anything. This is essentially buying on trust.

Edited by NewGuy
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1 minute ago, Bongofish said:

A d when you sell , it's just a gentlemen's agreement,? Can't buy a carrot from Asda without someone trying to sue them for it, so wondering how someone trusts you enough to just give you thousands of pounds and your saying you may take the customers back after only 6 months? 

It may very well work like this, but I wouldn't want to transfer Bob down the road 4 grand for a round that he may take back after 6 months 😂🤷 ( and that's only on his word, as far as I'm aware he may take them back after 2 weeks and there's nothing legally I could do about it) 

I think you have miss understood what I said , I will only take customers back after 6 months if the new cleaner proves to be unreliable or do a poor job and the customer sacks them , if you have just spent many thousands of pounds buying a well established compact well priced round hopefully you will do a decent job , I have only ever taken back a handful of customers out of many thousands that I have sold , if you want to get a legal document written up you can , but again enforcing it would be costly and time consuming probably more than you would pay for the round , when I sell wirk it’s normally to someone I know and I trust them and they trust me , never had a problem so far . 

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3 minutes ago, Pjj said:

I think you have miss understood what I said , I will only take customers back after 6 months if the new cleaner proves to be unreliable or do a poor job and the customer sacks them , if you have just spent many thousands of pounds buying a well established compact well priced round hopefully you will do a decent job , I have only ever taken back a handful of customers out of many thousands that I have sold , if you want to get a legal document written up you can , but again enforcing it would be costly and time consuming probably more than you would pay for the round , when I sell wirk it’s normally to someone I know and I trust them and they trust me , never had a problem so far . 

I know I'm carrying on the conversation , but I'm sure that not many people are as trustworthy as you Pjj. There must have been so many people 'skanked' in round buying. There's so many loop holes it's unreal. The only way I would ever consider it is buying going through solicitors , but even then if the customers don't like the clean or your job then there's nothing you can do about it. 

I seriously can't see a reason to buy a round on any level. 

I maybe would be willing to sell some houses on villages that I just don't need anymore (5-10 houses in the sticks for £300) but when talking thousands It just seems to big a risk, especially buying. 

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1 minute ago, NewGuy said:

Can one ask if this "buying a round" a recent phenomenon?

Much as I would love to buy a round in my areas, I would be extremely cautious and ensure undue diligence is carried out because there are no guarantees of anything. This is essentially buying on trust.

Rounds have always been bought and sold and yes you are buying good will and a list of names and address and that’s it , it’s down to the customer in the end if they like you and what you do you should be ok , if they don’t they will dump you and go else ware . 

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16 minutes ago, Bongofish said:

I know I'm carrying on the conversation , but I'm sure that not many people are as trustworthy as you Pjj. There must have been so many people 'skanked' in round buying. There's so many loop holes it's unreal. The only way I would ever consider it is buying going through solicitors , but even then if the customers don't like the clean or your job then there's nothing you can do about it. 

I seriously can't see a reason to buy a round on any level. 

I maybe would be willing to sell some houses on villages that I just don't need anymore (5-10 houses in the sticks for £300) but when talking thousands It just seems to big a risk, especially buying. 

I agree with you I have been very lucky and never needed to buy work but I would also be very wary if I was going to , if they introduced you to the customers then hopefully everything should be ok , I would never buy work off a  total stranger unless I did some homework first 

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I sold a round to my mate Danny who used to work for me. 
He gave me a lump sum and pays me a monthly amount until the agreed price is reached.

As my recent worker has buggered off to Australia, I thought now is the time to slow down, so I sold off half my round to a windie that I sub off my jet washing, conny roofs too.

In both cases it has worked out very smoothly 🙂👨‍🦰

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We all get to know other window cleaners, business people and people in general.

In most cases there will be info out there on a person who may be selling window cleaning work.

some of us have great reputations which have been so over the course of years.

others have reputation for being corner cutters. Scruffy staff. Missing windows etc. Most of us will know others that fit into each type. As with anything you would not generally do business based on authenticity of word with a shady person.

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I've bought and sold quite a number of rounds, but it's always been from someone I know or at least know the reputation of. It's risky buying off a complete stranger though. When I sell I usually work the round once with them- splitting the money 50/50, introducing them to the customers and give them a letter of introduction to give to customers they haven't met. 

While I've never made an agreement not to poach back the customers, it goes without saying. It would be a very low thing to do. 

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2 hours ago, steve garwood said:

I sold a round to my mate Danny who used to work for me. 
He gave me a lump sum and pays me a monthly amount until the agreed price is reached.

As my recent worker has buggered off to Australia, I thought now is the time to slow down, so I sold off half my round to a windie that I sub off my jet washing, conny roofs too.

In both cases it has worked out very smoothly 🙂👨‍🦰

In a situation like this, what if Danny just stops paying you? If you get the better of him you may be able to give him a kicking behind the bike sheds, but if that is or is not the case then what can you do about it? I know I am naturally a skeptical guy, but for £1000s I'm surprised there's so much trust going on . 

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12 minutes ago, Bongofish said:

In a situation like this, what if Danny just stops paying you? If you get the better of him you may be able to give him a kicking behind the bike sheds, but if that is or is not the case then what can you do about it? I know I am naturally a skeptical guy, but for £1000s I'm surprised there's so much trust going on . 

Danny won't stop paying, when you do a deal such as above it's between two people who have respect for each other and know each other other well. 

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2 hours ago, Bongofish said:

In a situation like this, what if Danny just stops paying you? If you get the better of him you may be able to give him a kicking behind the bike sheds, but if that is or is not the case then what can you do about it? I know I am naturally a skeptical guy, but for £1000s I'm surprised there's so much trust going on . 

Danny is one of my best mates and the best, reliable worker I ever had. He wanted to be his own boss which is understandable.

If I’m honest, I could of got more for the round if I’d sold it elsewhere, but knew it would run smoothly with Dan.

He’s nearly finished paying for it now and has never missed a payment. I have good mates that I trust, especially Danny 🙂

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We have bought rounds and sold rounds. Every time very smoothly. Never had a problem. 
some for example get loads of work then decide to cut down as has already been mentioned. Others retire. Yes your buying goodwill, but if your introduced to customers etc. Then it’s no problem. 

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14 hours ago, Pjj said:

Rounds have always been bought and sold and yes you are buying good will and a list of names and address and that’s it , it’s down to the customer in the end if they like you and what you do you should be ok , if they don’t they will dump you and go else ware . 

Same as if you were to buy a little corner shop. You buy the shop and usually the stock, and the good will (customer figures normally using it to make purchases).But good will does not mean they will continue using the shop.

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There really is no tangible assets when buying a round, you would be a bit daft if you didn't have some form of contractual paperwork between the two parties as even close friends and people you trust can prove you wrong and have you over. 

The only thing you could claim legally in the paperwork would be exclusions and goodwill which are customers.

But say you bought Betty from number 24 old folks Avenue and two weeks later the window cleaner who sold you the round was back cleaning her, the only claim you would have in court would be your exclusion or lock out clause... Without that you wouldn't even have a toe to stand on let alone a leg that the customer has chosen to go back to him

I have never bought a round or customer and would only ever consider it if all current customers and addresses were documented along with a lock out clause for a certain radius of that round. Even then I'd be very dubious as you have no legal right to free will. 

Each and every customer is entitled to have whomever they choose to clean their windows and whether you have just bought them or not, they can cancel on you immediately if they choose. 

Hence the lockout clause, but that only protects you from the person who is named in the document, nobody else. 

In my honest opinion, buying rounds or customers would have to be so incredibly cheap to offset the risk that there wouldn't be much profit in it for the seller so I can't seee ever doing so. 

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When I inherited my round of about 50 customers I worked the round with the retiring window cleaner. He introduced me to as many customers as possible, explained to them that I would continue if they wanted me to, split the days takings with me and handed over the contacts lists. No money changed hands as he didn't want any, the prices were very low as he hadn't increased in decades and it was down to me to sort out the increases.

If I were to sell anything I would do it in the same manner. Work the round with the buyer and their days labour will count as part payment for the sale of the work. The buyer then knows exactly what they're getting (within reason). If the job fell through on the new cleaner (home owner moves, doesn't like the new guy etc) I'd probably give them an alternative job but if it's because they've been doing a poor job, not turning up, missing windows, urinating in the pot plants etc then it's their loss.

If I was buying work I would want to do it on a similar basis. Trust, more than anything else would be the biggest factor before agreeing to buy anything. Is this person going to try to scam me? If he does, what can I do about it? Would they be prepared for some rough and tumble for the sake of a few quid? Those are the things I would consider before buying a round.

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