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Help needed ! Deadends


h.a.s window cleaning

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h.a.s window cleaning

Hi ppl. I'm haveing some issues with my set up. I was useing a varistream controller. Problem I was haveing was when I turned the tap off on pole the pump would cut off witch was great but when I opened the tap I would get a sudden burst of water then nothing for 15/20sec then the pump would kick in and water flow would be spot on again and stay on. I have tired to change the deadend setting witch for sum reason I have to have it set the f witch is the max  and this should be swelling the pipes and brust off fitting but like I say soon as u turn tape it cuts off. If I have it on anything lower then f the controller just stay on p and never kicks back in. I fort i most of had a playing up pump so replaced with a new one ( bypassing the switch on the pump). Still the same issue. So I swapped my controller today with a anlog  one and it's the same I have to have the pump deadend set to max to get the water to flow again other wise it just gives me the deadend light.. the water is feed from the bottom of the tank to the pump witch is below the water line. It then runs to my reel (witch IV also replaced the hose twice in last 12 months same issue all 3 ) that's via a 1inch pipe everything is push fitted hose lock with no stoppers in it. This has me stumped .I fort airlock but the water flow is spot on even at lower speeds never had a problem with that no splitting to like I would get if air in the system just Smith flow. Any help would be great ppl

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If 2 controllers are acting the same then that suggests the controller isn't a problem - not a total guarantee though.

Varistream controllers are set at C when they were manufactured. This works fine with a Shurflo 100psi 5.2 lpm pump.

You have removed the pressure switch from the circuit which is exactly what the instructions that come with the controller advise.

Now you need to focus your attention on the hose from your pump.

We have van ports and connect the hose reels up to them when window cleaning. Does the water flow freely from the pump to the hose reel. What about the Hozelok stop connectors. I had one that for some unknow reason decided to only partially open after it worked well for around 6 months, I never did understand why it failed.

But that wouldn't cause a problem like you suggest. If there is pressure building up inside the hose on the reel then I could see that slowly dissipate when you open your flow controller valve at the pole end.

We use Gardiner EZ Snap stop female connectors at the end of our hoses. The pole hose has male EZ Snap connectors.

If you remove the pole hose from your hose connector, do you get the water flowing freely? If not then are you able to remove the hose connector and check the flow. Its never happened to me but some have complained that their hose has delaminated inside due to cars running over it.

When problem solving you have to go through a logical process of finding faults. What changed immediately before the fault happened? Sometimes you don't know. In our case we would have to find the point where everything is working fine and then go from there.

It does beg the question though! Why has replacing the hose solved the problem before? I've had hoses last until the outer sheath had mostly worn away. The last hose was over 5 years old when it was replaced a couple of years ago.

Sometimes it helps to try your system against a known good. Is there someone close to you who wouldn't mind you trying his hose reel and pole for example?

Edited by spruce
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h.a.s window cleaning
24 minutes ago, spruce said:

If 2 controllers are acting the same then that suggests the controller isn't a problem - not a total guarantee though.

Varistream controllers are set at C when they were manufactured. This works fine with a Shurflo 100psi 5.2 lpm pump.

You have removed the pressure switch from the circuit which is exactly what the instructions that come with the controller advise.

Now you need to focus your attention on the hose from your pump.

We have van ports and connect the hose reels up to them when window cleaning. Does the water flow freely from the pump to the hose reel. What about the Hozelok stop connectors. I had one that for some unknow reason decided to only partially open after it worked well for around 6 months, I never did understand why it failed.

But that wouldn't cause a problem like you suggest. If there is pressure building up inside the hose on the reel then I could see that slowly dissipate when you open your flow controller valve at the pole end.

We use Gardiner EZ Snap stop female connectors at the end of our hoses. The pole hose has male EZ Snap connectors.

If you remove the pole hose from your hose connector, do you get the water flowing freely? If not then are you able to remove the hose connector and check the flow. Its never happened to me but some have complained that their hose has delaminated inside due to cars running over it.

When problem solving you have to go through a logical process of finding faults. What changed immediately before the fault happened? Sometimes you don't know. In our case we would have to find the point where everything is working fine and then go from there.

It does beg the question though! Why has replacing the hose solved the problem before? I've had hoses last until the outer sheath had mostly worn away. The last hose was over 5 years old when it was replaced a couple of years ago.

Sometimes it helps to try your system against a known good. Is there someone close to you who wouldn't mind you trying his hose reel and pole for example?

My reel is fixed in the van so the hose end I use to Conny to the reel is one without a stopper in it. The pipe from the tank to the pump is 1 inch and goes over the fitting on the pump so again no stopper used and the pipe has a straight run to the pump no bends what so every it dose however go up by about 20cm to the pump but the pump is still massively below the water line if the tank. Pipe comeing off the pump is again over the fitting so no stopper. If I unplug the reel the water flows freely with no issue. As a test I used a old bit of hose witch I ran out the van straight to the pole so bypassing the reel completely. Same issue again. Water flows freely pump switch's off almost instantly but takes it time to kick back in once tap is reopened.. IV also replaced the mini filter before the pump and all the pipe work from tank to pump and pump to reel. 

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h.a.s window cleaning
3 minutes ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

My reel is fixed in the van so the hose end I use to Conny to the reel is one without a stopper in it. The pipe from the tank to the pump is 1 inch and goes over the fitting on the pump so again no stopper used and the pipe has a straight run to the pump no bends what so every it dose however go up by about 20cm to the pump but the pump is still massively below the water line if the tank. Pipe comeing off the pump is again over the fitting so no stopper. If I unplug the reel the water flows freely with no issue. As a test I used a old bit of hose witch I ran out the van straight to the pole so bypassing the reel completely. Same issue again. Water flows freely pump switch's off almost instantly but takes it time to kick back in once tap is reopened.. IV also replaced the mini filter before the pump and all the pipe work from tank to pump and pump to reel. 

Also the problem has been there since u set the van up. And has never gone no matter what IV changed.. the only thing that has never been changed is the tank.

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16 hours ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

Also the problem has been there since u set the van up. And has never gone no matter what IV changed.. the only thing that has never been changed is the tank.

Are you talking to yourself in a 3rd person 🙊😅

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h.a.s window cleaning
1 hour ago, Iron Giant said:

Are you talking to yourself in a 3rd person 🙊😅

Lol haha I noticed that myself. My auto correct always changes I to u for some reason lol

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Posibble things to check. 

1, your spelling, for everyone's benefit please for the love of God check your spelling. 

2. Like doug asked, does your tank have a breather (allows air flow in and out of tank) fitted, if not its going to be like drinking a big bottle of water but never letting any air back in, it will try to crush itself. 

3. I would seriously check all your connectors and hoses one by one, if you have good flow, move to the next and check that.

4. account for all rubber washers, sounds daft but if you tighten a fitting up too tight this can cause the rubber washer to push into the actual hose sometimes. 

5. your pump doesn't have to be below the waterline, it can sit above as diaphragm pumps like most can pull water under from a source and doesn't rely on gravity feeding it. 

6. If all else fails, set you pump up with just an infeed and just a short pipe as an output, if everything is still acting the same then it's probably the controller or how you have it set, if not then again its something in your hose/connections/joints

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h.a.s window cleaning
7 hours ago, Baldmonkey said:

Posibble things to check. 

1, your spelling, for everyone's benefit please for the love of God check your spelling. 

2. Like doug asked, does your tank have a breather (allows air flow in and out of tank) fitted, if not its going to be like drinking a big bottle of water but never letting any air back in, it will try to crush itself. 

3. I would seriously check all your connectors and hoses one by one, if you have good flow, move to the next and check that.

4. account for all rubber washers, sounds daft but if you tighten a fitting up too tight this can cause the rubber washer to push into the actual hose sometimes. 

5. your pump doesn't have to be below the waterline, it can sit above as diaphragm pumps like most can pull water under from a source and doesn't rely on gravity feeding it. 

6. If all else fails, set you pump up with just an infeed and just a short pipe as an output, if everything is still acting the same then it's probably the controller or how you have it set, if not then again its something in your hose/connections/joints

1. I have learning difficulties due to a brain injury I suffered as a child but given that we live in a  more understand world of disabilities I just fort that people within this forum would also be of the same mind set. but now I no that my spelling in a problem and in the benefit of all others I will not bother reaching out for some help. I mean for the  love of God the fort people would have to take 20/30 sec longer to read my post that you can seely I struggling to rite is completely out of order. What was I thinking. 

2. I have already done everything that u have mentioned. I have no found the problem and as I fort it was something I could not get my head around. But another window cleaner in my area took the time to come take a look. 

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33 minutes ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

1. I have learning difficulties due to a brain injury I suffered as a child but given that we live in a  more understand world of disabilities I just fort that people within this forum would also be of the same mind set. but now I no that my spelling in a problem and in the benefit of all others I will not bother reaching out for some help. I mean for the  love of God the fort people would have to take 20/30 sec longer to read my post that you can seely I struggling to rite is completely out of order. What was I thinking. 

2. I have already done everything that u have mentioned. I have no found the problem and as I fort it was something I could not get my head around. But another window cleaner in my area took the time to come take a look. 

That's a tough doing for you @h.a.s. Most of my similar problems have been caused by air. Beyond that I have a lot less knowledge than many on here. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be able to help.

Good luck. 👍

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I think there are a few guys on here with problems that we need to be accommodating of, and respect is due for getting on with your lives despite the extra challenges.

We are experiencing problems with one of our systems at the moment, it has a new v16 controller and a new pump but we can't get consistent pressure out of it. We can't see any obvious issues with the "wet" side of things so that leaves electrical connections as the suspects. I'm planning to strip ours out over the holiday and re-install it from scratch.

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2 hours ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

1. I have learning difficulties due to a brain injury I suffered as a child but given that we live in a  more understand world of disabilities I just fort that people within this forum would also be of the same mind set. but now I no that my spelling in a problem and in the benefit of all others I will not bother reaching out for some help. I mean for the  love of God the fort people would have to take 20/30 sec longer to read my post that you can seely I struggling to rite is completely out of order. What was I thinking. 

2. I have already done everything that u have mentioned. I have no found the problem and as I fort it was something I could not get my head around. But another window cleaner in my area took the time to come take a look. 

I don't believe @Baldmonkey was trying to insult you. It's quite difficult if not impossible to understand from a post or 2 if someone has a reason for typing the way they have or are just being lazy. 

This is the most friendly and helpful forum I have ever been a member of. I hope you will understand that no one would try and discriminate against you based on disability. 

The above is just my opinion as I don't speak for the forum as a whole. 

Back to your issue. While I believe you have carried out a very thorough investigation of your issues there is obviously something not right. As far as I am aware most controllers measure the current the pump is pulling to determine if there is a Dead End. i.e. The current increases when the pump is trying to pump against a closed pipe.

So if you are getting no flow then it sounds like the controller is seeing it as a dead end. This could be due to poor connections. If you are using bullets or choc blocks it might be worth re making all the connections as sometimes it's difficult to see an issue. I seem to remember that with Spring controllers there can be a startup delay of 20-30 seconds if they are shut down in a dead end situation as they don't know the status of the pump - that's a general recollection. So I assume your controller isn't being switched off some how i.e. is your battery voltage dropping too low when the DE is detected then the controller reboots? Do you have a multimeter? If you do then check the input voltage to your controller when the issue happens.

Hope the above helps, if not let us know and we may be able to help.

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3 hours ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

1. I have learning difficulties due to a brain injury I suffered as a child but given that we live in a  more understand world of disabilities I just fort that people within this forum would also be of the same mind set. but now I no that my spelling in a problem and in the benefit of all others I will not bother reaching out for some help. I mean for the  love of God the fort people would have to take 20/30 sec longer to read my post that you can seely I struggling to rite is completely out of order. What was I thinking. 

2. I have already done everything that u have mentioned. I have no found the problem and as I fort it was something I could not get my head around. But another window cleaner in my area took the time to come take a look. 

Try not to take things too personally, some things don't come across so well in written text, although some of us can have an off day and some have a hissy fit for no reason 

 

Hopefully you will stick around I know off some members on here who aren't the best spellers for different reasons and people shouldn't judge or have a go at other members at all. 

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3 hours ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

1. I have learning difficulties due to a brain injury I suffered as a child but given that we live in a  more understand world of disabilities I just fort that people within this forum would also be of the same mind set. but now I no that my spelling in a problem and in the benefit of all others I will not bother reaching out for some help. I mean for the  love of God the fort people would have to take 20/30 sec longer to read my post that you can seely I struggling to rite is completely out of order. What was I thinking. 

2. I have already done everything that u have mentioned. I have no found the problem and as I fort it was something I could not get my head around. But another window cleaner in my area took the time to come take a look. 

Don’t worry about your spelling mine isn’t great either and I don’t have a brain injury , I don’t think anyone meant to be rude to you just didn’t realise your situation , don’t let this put you off asking any questions we are more than happy to try and help , well  done for having the courage to come on hear and ask 👍

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11 minutes ago, Pjj said:

Don’t worry about your spelling mine isn’t great either and I don’t have a brain injury , I don’t think anyone meant to be rude to you just didn’t realise your situation , don’t let this put you off asking any questions we are more than happy to try and help , well  done for having the courage to come on hear and ask 👍

A member saying for the love of God check your spelling is some what rude, me thinks 

 

How's Evan by the way? 😅

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1 hour ago, ched999uk said:

I don't believe @Baldmonkey was trying to insult you. It's quite difficult if not impossible to understand from a post or 2 if someone has a reason for typing the way they have or are just being lazy. 

This is the most friendly and helpful forum I have ever been a member of. I hope you will understand that no one would try and discriminate against you based on disability. 

The above is just my opinion as I don't speak for the forum as a whole. 

Back to your issue. While I believe you have carried out a very thorough investigation of your issues there is obviously something not right. As far as I am aware most controllers measure the current the pump is pulling to determine if there is a Dead End. i.e. The current increases when the pump is trying to pump against a closed pipe.

So if you are getting no flow then it sounds like the controller is seeing it as a dead end. This could be due to poor connections. If you are using bullets or choc blocks it might be worth re making all the connections as sometimes it's difficult to see an issue. I seem to remember that with Spring controllers there can be a startup delay of 20-30 seconds if they are shut down in a dead end situation as they don't know the status of the pump - that's a general recollection. So I assume your controller isn't being switched off some how i.e. is your battery voltage dropping too low when the DE is detected then the controller reboots? Do you have a multimeter? If you do then check the input voltage to your controller when the issue happens.

Hope the above helps, if not let us know and we may be able to help.

I was thinking about this. I would like the O/P to watch what happens to the controller while it taking its time to reactivate.

Varistreams have a LED light which is green when the pump is working away doing its job. When we switch the tap/Univalve/Aquadapter off the Varistream pulses the motor with a current to check to see if the flow controller has been activated. It sends this pulse every 3 or 4 seconds to test the current status. The LED grows red when this pulse happens and the pump isn't activated. When the pulse is finished the LED goes off.

Spring controllers also have this delay. I think its every 3 seconds that it sends a pulse to check status.

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h.a.s window cleaning

Thank your all for the support ppl. I just get my back up when ppl find it helpful to pull me done. Wouldn't even mind aswell but he jump straight in with possible things to check and he didn't even spell that correct himself

 

Anyways back to the problem I was haveing it turns out it was a wiring issue. I assumed it can't of been that as when the water was flowing it was spot on. But yeah I rewired the system yesterday and boom all works great now. Thanks for all the help though ppl much appreciated

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1 minute ago, Iron Giant said:

A member saying for the love of God check your spelling is some what rude, me thinks 

 

How's Evan by the way? 😅

I have had a person criticise my spelling on more than one occasion, sometimes it’s when I post without having my glasses on , sometimes it’s me cannot spell , and sometimes it’s predictive txt , 😂😬😂😬 , but it’s water off a ducks back with me I don’t really care it doesn’t offend me , some words like for I keep hitting the wrong key and put fir now my predictive txt now puts fir when I put for 😂😂😂😂😂 , ime glad that it gives some a rye smile hopefully makes there day a bit better 😎😎😎

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1 minute ago, h.a.s window cleaning said:

Thank your all for the support ppl. I just get my back up when ppl find it helpful to pull me done. Wouldn't even mind aswell but he jump straight in with possible things to check and he didn't even spell that correct himself

 

Anyways back to the problem I was haveing it turns out it was a wiring issue. I assumed it can't of been that as when the water was flowing it was spot on. But yeah I rewired the system yesterday and boom all works great now. Thanks for all the help though ppl much appreciated

Glad to hear it's all sorted. Have a great Christmas and come and chat soon.

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