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Question for Immersion heater users.


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After a bit of research all the 2kw heaters I have seen are 27cm what I can’t work out is that just the element or the element and the thermostat?

After watching Squeaky clean Dave’s video on the install there was a question he answer stating that there wasn’t  much thread on the inside to screw the flange on? I could be totally wrong here but the wydale tank looks like it could be thinner than my facelift compact? Just a little worried that if I cut the hole the heater might not have enough thread for the flange to bite? 

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Photos and measurements 👍 the inner flange thread is 15mm  flange washer is 2mm  maxium gap between inner and outer flange is 12mm  this mechanical flange gives approx 5mm more thr

Pretend the sparkly coaster is the tank wall 

My old best mate today installed my immersion went smoothly no hiccups have got it on switched on for a few hours a little trial run, just got to insulate tank now. 

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1 hour ago, Den said:

After a bit of research all the 2kw heaters I have seen are 27cm what I can’t work out is that just the element or the element and the thermostat?

After watching Squeaky clean Dave’s video on the install there was a question he answer stating that there wasn’t  much thread on the inside to screw the flange on? I could be totally wrong here but the wydale tank looks like it could be thinner than my facelift compact? Just a little worried that if I cut the hole the heater might not have enough thread for the flange to bite? 

I'm not sure of the thickness of my Wyedale. I'd guess 8~10mm. The length quoted for an immersion is probably the length of the element. The threaded boss on mine was only just deep enough to allow me to get the inner flange ring started on the thread. You would probably be able to get the exact tank thicknesses from the tank makers.

Edited by Davy G
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4 minutes ago, Davy G said:

I'm not sure of the thickness of my Wyedale. I'd guess 8~10mm. The length quoted for an immersion is probably the length of the element. The threaded boss on mine was only just deep enough to allow me to get the inner flange ring started on the thread. You would probably be able to get the exact tank thicknesses from the tank makers.

Thanks Davy that’s great info until I can get the info regarding thickness of my tank I will give it a miss for the time being. 

as very unscientific observation I have previously made is my tank looks thicker/more solid than the wyedale tanks but off course could be completely wrong 🤪 lol 

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9 minutes ago, Davy G said:

I'm not sure of the thickness of my Wyedale. I'd guess 8~10mm. The length quoted for an immersion is probably the length of the element. The threaded boss on mine was only just deep enough to allow me to get the inner flange ring started on the thread. You would probably be able to get the exact tank thicknesses from the tank makers.

I don’t have a lot of experience with theses tanks but the ones I have seen aren't very consistent with there thickness they vary a lot one bit is a lot thinner or thicker than the next bit , I think they are blown into a mould to form  them this is why they are not a consistent thickness 

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4 minutes ago, Den said:

Thanks Davy that’s great info until I can get the info regarding thickness of my tank I will give it a miss for the time being. 

as very unscientific observation I have previously made is my tank looks thicker/more solid than the wyedale tanks but off course could be completely wrong 🤪 lol 

Welcome, Den. You're right. You want to be as certain as possible before cutting out holes. 😁👍

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2 hours ago, Den said:

After a bit of research all the 2kw heaters I have seen are 27cm what I can’t work out is that just the element or the element and the thermostat?

After watching Squeaky clean Dave’s video on the install there was a question he answer stating that there wasn’t  much thread on the inside to screw the flange on? I could be totally wrong here but the wydale tank looks like it could be thinner than my facelift compact? Just a little worried that if I cut the hole the heater might not have enough thread for the flange to bite? 

The length quoted is the overall length of the element. The thermostat goes inside the hollow centre ‘tube’, It usually just pushes in and is a loose fit (it’s not treaded) the thermostat is slightly shorter than the overall length of the immersion elements. With regards to drilling and fitting. My first tank was an old un-baffled Ionics tank - similar to a Wydale. When I drilled the hole I hadn’t taken in to account the wall thickness, I brought a thin nut to attach the immersion to on the inside. This wasn’t possible BUT luckily the hole saw I used was the perfect size - I was able to thread the immersion element directly into the hole (which worked like I was tapping a hole) I applied a bit of Fernox LS-X sealant and it was as solid as a rock. It unthreaded when I needed to replace it and sealed up and was watertight when I replaced it. 
The alternative is to fit an Immersion flange/boss - which is like a bulkhead connector which stays in place and you thread the immersion into the thread that is inside that, they are soldered on to copper cylinders to enable the immersion to just screw in. I’m sure I’ve seen them for sale with quite a long threaded section. 
I was recommended a company that manufactures Industrial elements (with bespoke outputs and lengths depending on your specific tank dimensions) I would imagine they could manufacture one with a longer threaded section (or even a bulkhead connector like I mentioned above). 

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5 minutes ago, AGlassAct said:

The length quoted is the overall length of the element. The thermostat goes inside the hollow centre ‘tube’, It usually just pushes in and is a loose fit (it’s not treaded) the thermostat is slightly shorter than the overall length of the immersion elements. With regards to drilling and fitting. My first tank was an old un-baffled Ionics tank - similar to a Wydale. When I drilled the hole I hadn’t taken in to account the wall thickness, I brought a thin nut to attach the immersion to on the inside. This wasn’t possible BUT luckily the hole saw I used was the perfect size - I was able to thread the immersion element directly into the hole (which worked like I was tapping a hole) I applied a bit of Fernox LS-X sealant and it was as solid as a rock. It unthreaded when I needed to replace it and sealed up and was watertight when I replaced it. 
The alternative is to fit an Immersion flange/boss - which is like a bulkhead connector which stays in place and you thread the immersion into the thread that is inside that, they are soldered on to copper cylinders to enable the immersion to just screw in. I’m sure I’ve seen them for sale with quite a long threaded section. 
I was recommended a company that manufactures Industrial elements (with bespoke outputs and lengths depending on your specific tank dimensions) I would imagine they could manufacture one with a longer threaded section (or even a bulkhead connector like I mentioned above). 

Cheers mate that’s a good insight and more food for thought for obvious reason want to get it right first time, would be so much easier if like you said having a longer threaded boss to attach to the flange would be ideal.

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4 minutes ago, Den said:

Cheers mate that’s a good insight and more food for thought for obvious reason want to get it right first time, would be so much easier if like you said having a longer threaded boss to attach to the flange would be ideal.

This is what I remember seeing - it’s a two piece nut that you attach to the tank and it stays in place. Might be worth looking around to see if anyone can provide what thickness material it will fit....

F4D8BB62-A628-40CA-AC9F-8846EC398647.png

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30 minutes ago, AGlassAct said:

This is what I remember seeing - it’s a two piece nut that you attach to the tank and it stays in place. Might be worth looking around to see if anyone can provide what thickness material it will fit....

F4D8BB62-A628-40CA-AC9F-8846EC398647.png

Cheer again mate it’s appreciated will have a look into I have just emailed the place where Squeaky clean Dave purchased his and ask it they can manufacture the 2kw with a slightly longer threaded boss 👍 thanks again.

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if The tank walls are a little too thick to screw the normal immersion heater thread into the mechanical flange do you think this would do the trick seems the same apart from female thread can go into the tank wall and the immersion Male thread into it obviously can’t get a flange spanner on it. 

Peoples views please.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Immersion-Heater-Element-Solder-Flange-2-1-4-BSP/111808697517?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item1a085154ad:g:wXUAAOSw9mFWMPCh&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%2Fn%2BzU5L90Z278x5ickkAgU0umhwUTmgTFbE5cu7zYr2E8gW78QV9cjufPJSXk7iat1r9Yx21mYKCMi4CqlZCY%2B91%2FaSBhqeTt7cZWGJpcc%2B97OOLwnM4SWUSGYUee3J4uPxsQiDgytJYhv7TTP2R%2FvKaR7cH%2BsDPgiRTF695xyJgIZGotPUM%2FbYPrQ8QN6YrAGqaWqYWfDc06Vd0SxCoUvpl0N%2BZlK6RVJ%2Bg93KIZbERn9FpaR4iTSB4EkjDmEIQiFtPmIxeHUECc3qjV5X2Do8lc9x2WAvH4Mpa%2Fh0H80knk1NZ5Iv8kfV%2FBhBy2Kyr5VjF15RvHcaeM2c1u%2FA21mrluOtAAdf3%2FD3iHfzUjPYFtjRa3M2uh1e9bZT4MfBQtqZ740aZsoHq%2FlzYBitrcTwI%2FzAF%2Fjk3lWQ2UxsENyIGB%2FmZBlfv8XiV8u%2F13EacQf3EfXoRUOSk2cRpvc4QurxcFL%2F4%2Blv%2Fijdw7bH%2Bjqr6tIuSiohmFhluxZpS1MPdaxYpBUmovzkN6i5iHvVqX%2FASOKsH%2BLYiU35pYN%2F%2F8zWHJ1YcysWMd387jMdkMvseFXqzwO7BnxVU8MzpBP5FzPmDjmegF6Uu2zJccy2zQoHmXCn9TQURci7IwFA6XUhMOamVH2LVRX4SoyO%2FbNWKXrHMQXWfzfGR30fZu8BgAddlcyCzLI1jFptNuutVlpHI8%2FvwCHyyti8FDDnCGlDEZZlxHZ%2BTLLzAbGK7msI6dAu1J%2B5D0oBD8EZhUzljW18YdAc1Do4wsw8hc8FtAr34yOcyajmU08ruu7UwbktkPUXO96a5uqHCRRrSl2q2cE%3D|cksum%3A111808697517f6df48d2cfac44fb89da763c2a496dbd|ampid%3APL_CLK|clp%3A2334524

Edited by Den
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This has recently been discussed on a Facebook page.

The guy transferred his element from an old tank to a new one using the equipment you suggested.

I asked if he’s ever used the ‘bid nut’ that goes on the inside of the tank. He replied no and has never had an issue 

Edited by steve garwood
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7 minutes ago, steve garwood said:

This has recently been discussed on a Facebook page.

The guy transferred his element from an old tank to a new one using the equipment you suggested.

I asked if he’s ever used the ‘bid nut’ that goes on the inside of the tank. He replied no and has never had an issue 

Thanks Steve 👍

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20 hours ago, Den said:

If you were able to flatten the two opposing sides to make a bit (and make a spanner to fit) it could be an option. The kit I posted a picture of is the same principle but if you put sealant on the threads it would (hopefully) stay in situ and you could screw the element directly in to it without having to gain access to the inside of the tank in the future. 

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1 hour ago, AGlassAct said:

If you were able to flatten the two opposing sides to make a bit (and make a spanner to fit) it could be an option. The kit I posted a picture of is the same principle but if you put sealant on the threads it would (hopefully) stay in situ and you could screw the element directly in to it without having to gain access to the inside of the tank in the future. 

I recently spoke to couple of guys on FB, one used the mechanical flange set that you posted and he also explained that there wasn’t much thread to screw on, the other guy done the same as yourself only screwed into the tank with no flange whatsoever I don’t think he used  any adhesive silicone either. 

I cant see why it wouldn’t work the flange I posted going into the wall collar first with a washer on it then screw the immersion into that? 

Or I may be lucky and the tank wall not too thick and screw the flange on as @Squeaky Clean Daveand @Mark Munro

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Have ordered the 2kw heater and a mechanical flange, after talking to couple of guys on FB and one of them showing a photos of the normal flange compared to the mechanical flange the difference is quite a bit more thread with the mechanical flange just got to wait for lockdown to finish then get my mate to install it 😄

thanks guys who contributed to this thread 👍

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Hi Den, As far as I know the critical issue is whether the length of the threaded portion of the immersion heater is long enough to go through the wall thickness of the tank. My understanding is that the mechanical flange sits on the inside with the immersion tightened into it, in which case the thread on the immersion needs to be long enough to reach it.  That's what I did anyway. I didn't use any sealant as the O ring that came with the Grasshopper Liesure 2kw immersion provided the seal. Things to be aware of : Make sure that you fit it as low as you can while still being able to get at it on the inside. Make sure you use a 13 amp rated flex cable with enough length to go comfortably to your extension cable plug in point. Make sure your extension cable is rated 13 amp. Most aren't, I made my own.

Another very important thing is to insulate the tank very well. I have about four or five layers of foil backed bubble - wrap around and on top of mine. Rubber matting under the tank and an offcut of 18mm hard rubber, cow/stable mat on top of the tank as a false floor for the side reel. I also have some red tank quilt lagging on the one side of the tank I can still get to. The tank is so well insulated that a couple of weeks back the water froze in my back reel overnight even though the water in the tank was heated to 60~65c and the roof, floor and sides of the van are all insulated to some degree.

My water gets hotter at the brush through the day as the level in the tank lowers. Reaching its maximum temperature after 3 or four hours work. By that time we usually have most of our work done.

Maybe your plumber contact could fit it for you sooner rather than later. This Chinese plague may go on for months or even years.

 

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7 minutes ago, Davy G said:

Hi Den, As far as I know the critical issue is whether the length of the threaded portion of the immersion heater is long enough to go through the wall thickness of the tank. My understanding is that the mechanical flange sits on the inside with the immersion tightened into it, in which case the thread on the immersion needs to be long enough to reach it.  That's what I did anyway. I didn't use any sealant as the O ring that came with the Grasshopper Liesure 2kw immersion provided the seal. Things to be aware of : Make sure that you fit it as low as you can while still being able to get at it on the inside. Make sure you use a 13 amp rated flex cable with enough length to go comfortably to your extension cable plug in point. Make sure your extension cable is rated 13 amp. Most aren't, I made my own.

Another very important thing is to insulate the tank very well. I have about four or five layers of foil backed bubble - wrap around and on top of mine. Rubber matting under the tank and an offcut of 18mm hard rubber, cow/stable mat on top of the tank as a false floor for the side reel. I also have some red tank quilt lagging on the one side of the tank I can still get to. The tank is so well insulated that a couple of weeks back the water froze in my back reel overnight even though the water in the tank was heated to 60~65c and the roof, floor and sides of the van are all insulated to some degree.

My water gets hotter at the brush through the day as the level in the tank lowers. Reaching its maximum temperature after 3 or four hours work. By that time we usually have most of our work done.

Maybe your plumber contact could fit it for you sooner rather than later. This Chinese plague may go on for months or even years.

 

Will pm you with some photos 👍

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