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Trad cleaning ‘nose to glass’


Millie77

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Hi all,

I am a newbie and just trying to get some tips on how you would clean this window using trad? I will not be able to get ‘nose to glass’ will I? Extension pole? 

8906AFC6-69FE-4821-8D6B-81AC035DBDCE.jpeg

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I have no problem whatsoever with the traditional method. We are all working people and I have always said anyone that goes self employed has my upmost respect. All I said was he advised you to work u

I haven't read any following posts but I wanted to pick up on this analogy. It really annoys me as we used to see it all the time in Skydiving as well.  Yes driving is dangerous and there are mor

I don't need to, from your link.   Figure 3 Incorrect – overreaching and not maintaining three points of contact    Figure 4 Correct – use of a stand-off device to ensure a strong

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1 hour ago, Millie77 said:

Hi all,

I am a newbie and just trying to get some tips on how you would clean this window using trad? I will not be able to get ‘nose to glass’ will I? Extension pole? 

8906AFC6-69FE-4821-8D6B-81AC035DBDCE.jpeg

What kind of trad gear do you have...

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3 hours ago, Millie77 said:

Hi I have just bought the below:

C957E29B-65AF-471A-AE3B-FEE21C9A5626.png

@Millie77

You will need some different tools to get those windows cleaned properly with a pole doing trad work.

You'll want a longer pole to start with. (20-24ft) should do the trick .... slope of the drive, angle of the roof line and how far back those windows are.

An adjustable handle like a moerman excelerator 2.0 handle with the fliq pad and brass channel (you'll make quick work of those windows)

That's the simplest solution for trad work for that situation, in my opinion. 

Hope that helps.

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You can get an 8ft unger pole and a zero degree unger ergo tec handle for £50. 

Just lean your ladder against the gutter, and straight pull it.

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4 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

You can get an 8ft unger pole and a zero degree unger ergo tec handle for £50. 

Just lean your ladder against the gutter, and straight pull it.

Thankyou!

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8 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

You can get an 8ft unger pole and a zero degree unger ergo tec handle for £50. 

Just lean your ladder against the gutter, and straight pull it.

I might of suggested something of that sorts, but @Millie77is a newbie and working from a ladder adds a higher risk to her well being. 

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36 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

You can get an 8ft unger pole and a zero degree unger ergo tec handle for £50. 

Just lean your ladder against the gutter, and straight pull it.

You do realise you're actually advising someone to work in an unsafe manner

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11 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

You do realise you're actually advising someone to work in an unsafe manner

Did you notice his username???? LadderGarder

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14 hours ago, Part Timer said:

You do realise you're actually advising someone to work in an unsafe manner

Why is it unsafe?

I have been doing that for 14 years now. I know you guys love your wfps but there is nothing wrong with using a ladder. 🙄

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1 hour ago, laddergarder said:

Why is it unsafe?

I have been doing that for 14 years now. I know you guys love your wfps but there is nothing wrong with using a ladder. 🙄

I use ladders regularly on gutter work, I would never rest ladders on a very slippy UPVC gutter unless very well footed. You also advocate someone then extending a pole and stand with their feet on the ladder and clean windows. In this method you're learning a ladder on an unsafe surface, only having 2 points of contact and then moving your upper body. If you employ and god forbid your employee falls, using this method, and gets very badly injured. You as an employer will get a very big fine and if they died probably sent to jail.

Yes the majority on here have done, and still do borderline stuff, but it doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean we should be advising others to do it.

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43 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

I use ladders regularly on gutter work, I would never rest ladders on a very slippy UPVC gutter unless very well footed. You also advocate someone then extending a pole and stand with their feet on the ladder and clean windows. In this method you're learning a ladder on an unsafe surface, only having 2 points of contact and then moving your upper body. If you employ and god forbid your employee falls, using this method, and gets very badly injured. You as an employer will get a very big fine and if they died probably sent to jail.

Yes the majority on here have done, and still do borderline stuff, but it doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean we should be advising others to do it.

I hear your point, and I do employ and am more than comfortable with this method.

1. Our ladders have mitts, which reduce reduce the side ways slip.

2. We are only talking 10 foot up.

3. It much safer than walking on that roof.

4. Water fed poles extended latterally can cause back problems.

5. I work at heights all the time, and if I had a list of times when I didn't feel safe, this would be no where near the top.

6. If your really worried about three points of contact, which your absolutely correct on, you can use a 20ft pole and do it from ground.

7. A trad pole and squeegee is much lighter and easier to carry than a backpack and brush for the sake of two windows.

8. This is someone who is just starting out, likely with little funds. A zero degree squeegee, is cheap and easy, thats why I recomend it. Her pole would let her do it from ground if she has no ladder or doesnt want to use it.

If she has an outside tap, can fill a few barrells to chuck in the van, a Di Tank, a backpack, a water fed pole, then great. That a good method. Nothing wrong with it. Apart from everything will set her back nearly £700. She might not be able to get parked close, and have to lug that heavy backpack to the job.

Both methods have there plus and minus, the choice is hers.

 

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You never advised the OP to put ladder mitts on and even you admit it only reduces the dangers. I wouldn't like to fall from only 10'.  I'm only worried about 3 points of contact as it's a legal requirement and to advise someone to ignore a legal requirement is rather risky. I fully agree there is a place for both methods, we trad Care Home doorways to prevent slipping risks on wet floors but with the technology out there today to continue to work dangerously is really inexcusable, especially if the main reason is money. Very hard to justify a few hundred quid outlay when you're getting prosecuted by the HSE

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5 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

You never advised the OP to put ladder mitts on and even you admit it only reduces the dangers. I wouldn't like to fall from only 10'.  I'm only worried about 3 points of contact as it's a legal requirement and to advise someone to ignore a legal requirement is rather risky. I fully agree there is a place for both methods, we trad Care Home doorways to prevent slipping risks on wet floors but with the technology out there today to continue to work dangerously is really inexcusable, especially if the main reason is money. Very hard to justify a few hundred quid outlay when you're getting prosecuted by the HSE

Is not breaking HSE. 

You have to maintain three points of contact when climbing, and were possible at the work position.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg455.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLoaOm_bHuAhWKXsAKHVuHClEQFjAAegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2OCD6nJVuUMl1LrABz41-u

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39 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

Is not breaking HSE. 

You have to maintain three points of contact when climbing, and were possible at the work position.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg455.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjLoaOm_bHuAhWKXsAKHVuHClEQFjAAegQICxAB&usg=AOvVaw2OCD6nJVuUMl1LrABz41-u

Figures 3 and 4 are exactly what you advocate. Your link has shown your advice, and working practice, is both unsafe and therefore illegal. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to try and advise what is a safe way to work.

Edited by Part Timer
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1 hour ago, laddergarder said:

I hear your point, and I do employ and am more than comfortable with this method.

1. Our ladders have mitts, which reduce reduce the side ways slip.

2. We are only talking 10 foot up.

3. It much safer than walking on that roof.

4. Water fed poles extended latterally can cause back problems.

5. I work at heights all the time, and if I had a list of times when I didn't feel safe, this would be no where near the top.

6. If your really worried about three points of contact, which your absolutely correct on, you can use a 20ft pole and do it from ground.

7. A trad pole and squeegee is much lighter and easier to carry than a backpack and brush for the sake of two windows.

8. This is someone who is just starting out, likely with little funds. A zero degree squeegee, is cheap and easy, thats why I recomend it. Her pole would let her do it from ground if she has no ladder or doesnt want to use it.

If she has an outside tap, can fill a few barrells to chuck in the van, a Di Tank, a backpack, a water fed pole, then great. That a good method. Nothing wrong with it. Apart from everything will set her back nearly £700. She might not be able to get parked close, and have to lug that heavy backpack to the job.

Both methods have there plus and minus, the choice is hers.

 

Just to point out you mentioned it would cost around £700 for a backpack set up but below are some prices:

gardiner backpack £100+ vat

clx 22 £165 +vat including a brush head 

ready filled Di vessel (vyair eBay) £80

a quality sack truck £50

barrels are easy to get free on Facebook 

so your talking around £450 after VAT, that’s for brand new items other than barrels and a quality sack truck to put the backpack on wheels, barrels can be half filled to make them easy to move.. second hand products can be picked up even cheaper so it’s not a lot of money to be safe, I’ve known people have bad injuries from that height, doesn’t matter how experienced you are, the more experienced I was on ladders the safer I felt which is probably why I ended up falling.. 

obviously it’s up to each individual what they do but people need to be made aware of the risks involved in ladders, if someone reads that so and so has done this for years so it must be safe and then they try and do it with limited experience or on a windy day or without ladder mitts etc then their chances of falling are gonna be huge..

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11 minutes ago, Part Timer said:

Figures 3 and 4 are exactly what you advocate. Your link has shown your advice, and working practice, is both unsafe and therefore illegal. I'm not here to argue, I'm here to try and advise what is a safe way to work.

Go to that link and search the word 'point'. You'll see it in black and white.

Of course there is risk, but you can only mitigate it, you can never elimate all risk. You have to apply common sense. There is more danger driving to the job statisitically than the method I recomended, and as you can well see, its not breaking any law which you have said.

Its a prefectly safe, and legal way to clean those windows, and would only cost her a £20 squeegee, with the tools she already has. There is nothing wrong with using traditional methods.

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4 minutes ago, danzlfc said:

Just to point out you mentioned it would cost around £700 for a backpack set up but below are some prices:

gardiner backpack £100+ vat

clx 22 £165 +vat including a brush head 

ready filled Di vessel (vyair eBay) £80

a quality sack truck £50

barrels are easy to get free on Facebook 

so your talking around £450 after VAT, that’s for brand new items other than barrels and a quality sack truck to put the backpack on wheels, barrels can be half filled to make them easy to move.. second hand products can be picked up even cheaper so it’s not a lot of money to be safe, I’ve known people have bad injuries from that height, doesn’t matter how experienced you are, the more experienced I was on ladders the safer I felt which is probably why I ended up falling.. 

obviously it’s up to each individual what they do but people need to be made aware of the risks involved in ladders, if someone reads that so and so has done this for years so it must be safe and then they try and do it with limited experience or on a windy day or without ladder mitts etc then their chances of falling are gonna be huge..

I could say the same for the day you end up with back problems lifting barrels. They are not light even half filled. 

Your costs are the cheapest possible, and I was counting £15 for buying barrells and getting an outside tap fitted for filling. Either way its allot she might not have. 

Sometimes starting off with a cheaper option, until things get going, is the better business decission. I wouldn't be cleaning windows today if it wasnt for traditional methods. 

I am not saying wfp isn't an option, and who knows she might prefer to go that way, either way is perfectly fine to get those windows cleaned.

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7 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

Go to that link and search the word 'point'. You'll see it in black and white.

I don't need to, from your link.

 

Figure 3 Incorrect – overreaching and not maintaining three points of contact 

 

Figure 4 Correct – use of a stand-off device to ensure a strong resting point. Do not rest a ladder against weak upper surfaces such as glazing or plastic gutters. Follow the manufacturer’s instructions.

 

This is what you have suggested the OP to do. I have never said there is anything wrong with using traditional tools, I use them myself. All I have said is you have advised someone to work unsafely. The fact that you do so, and allow your employees to do so, is up to you, however in my opinion advising newbies to do so is incorrect advice.

 

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15 minutes ago, laddergarder said:

Go to that link and search the word 'point'. You'll see it in black and white.

Of course there is risk, but you can only mitigate it, you can never elimate all risk. You have to apply common sense. There is more danger driving to the job statisitically than the method I recomended, and as you can well see, its not breaking any law which you have said.

Its a prefectly safe, and legal way to clean those windows, and would only cost her a £20 squeegee, with the tools she already has. There is nothing wrong with using traditional methods.

The link you provided was for working with ladders. If you read that guide you will notice the link to https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg401.pdf Working at height a brief guide.

There it states, on page 1 'avoid work at height where it is reasonably practicable to do so'. It is practicable to use WFP so you and your employees should not be working off ladders.

Bottom line is it's up to you if you want to risk your own life working off a ladder but if your employee were to fall H&S would crucify you.

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