Split charge relay. Help.

Need some help if possible.

I have 2 water genie in a box lites in the van and I’m getting tired of keep having to charge them up.

I was wondering if I’ll need to get 2 separate split charge relays, from van battery, to each box?
Or can I get 1 split charge relay and connect it to a bigger leisure battery. Then connect the leisure battery to both smaller battery’s in the boxes, with some +- wires.

sorry if it’s a bit confusing, thanks for any help.

I would say 2 split charge relays would be better and simpler. No need to charge 1 leisure battery to then charge the other 2.

Just be aware that unless you do a fair few miles your batteries wont charge very well. If you can get mains to the van best to charge batteries up each night.

Deffo a question for the Electrics expert that is @spruce

Silly question but why not remove the batteries in the box and wire them up to a leisure battery? Then just a split charge relay. Again unless you do lots of miles a split charge relay wont put enough power back to maintain a full battery. So mains charging may be required!!

HWCS said:

Deffo a question for the Electrics expert that is @spruce

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@ched999uk is well clued up on electrics, I cant remember if he is former electrical engineer or similar 

ched999uk said:

Silly question but why not remove the batteries in the box and wire them up to a leisure battery? Then just a split charge relay. Again unless you do lots of miles a split charge relay wont put enough power back to maintain a full battery. So mains charging may be required!!

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I don't have any experience with these 'tiny' batteries. All I know is that my son once put my 12v 10 amp starter battery charger on his Honda motor cycle battery and end up destroying the battery.

The battery charger from our Gardiner backpack is 12v 1amp. My advice is to speak to the supplier and get them to confirm in writing that putting the system on charge via a split charge relay is ok. I doubt they will do that.

Personally @Kurtis no, I wouldn't do it. These guys have added to my doubt.

https://yamahaclub.com/forums/topic/32586-charging-motorcycle-battery-with-car-battery-charger/

Nearly all of us have charge our leisure batteries at night as well as do a multitude of other jobs such as filling the tank, doing paperwork, washing cloths and towels, and preparing for the next day's cleans. Its part of the job that earns you your living.

spruce said:

I don't have any experience with these 'tiny' batteries. All I know is that my son once put my 12v 10 amp starter battery charger on his Honda motor cycle battery and end up destroying the battery.

The battery charger from our Gardiner backpack is 12v 1amp. My advice is to speak to the supplier and get them to confirm in writing that putting the system on charge via a split charge relay is ok. I doubt they will do that.

Personally @Kurtis no, I wouldn't do it. These guys have added to my doubt.

https://yamahaclub.com/forums/topic/32586-charging-motorcycle-battery-with-car-battery-charger/

Nearly all of us have charge our leisure batteries at night as well as do a multitude of other jobs such as filling the tank, doing paperwork, washing cloths and towels, and preparing for the next day's cleans. Its part of the job that earns you your living.

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When I tried looking up the pump in a box here: https://www.thecleaningwarehouse.co.uk/genie-in-a-box---pump-box-by-the-water-genie-2277-p.asp it suggested that they needed 85Ah leisure batteries. So I was suggesting stuff on this basis.

If they are much smaller batteries then as you say it's a different matter.

ched999uk said:

When I tried looking up the pump in a box here: https://www.thecleaningwarehouse.co.uk/genie-in-a-box---pump-box-by-the-water-genie-2277-p.asp it suggested that they needed 85Ah leisure batteries. So I was suggesting stuff on this basis.

If they are much smaller batteries then as you say it's a different matter.

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I looked at the pump size and thought the battery was small. Of course i could be wrong as the photo could be misleading.

@Kurtisneeds to tell us what size battery is in the pump box.

spruce said:

I looked at the pump size and thought the battery was small. Of course i could be wrong as the photo could be misleading.

@Kurtisneeds to tell us what size battery is in the pump box.

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Actually @ched999uk I think you are right. They sell the basic box and pump for £234 and an optional 85 amp leisure battery.

If @Kurtishas the 85amp leisure battery then a split charge relay will work. But this depends on the vehicle and as you say, time traveling with the engine running. (10 miles at 60mph will charge the battery less than 10 miles at 10 mph average speed.)

Using a split charge relay doesn't mean he is never going to have to take the pump box out for recharging. 

Leisure battery suppliers will tell you that recharging your leisure battery immediately after use is best for battery longevity. Ideally that leisure battery should be fully charged every day after work.

I still have question marks about what battery is in the pump box. Those battery terminals look strange although they could have holes drilled in standard terminals for a screw and eyelet cable connector.

FItting a split charge relay should the vehicle be suitable would also mean the cables would need to be updated for the charging side.

That battery looks more like the type of battery you would have for a mobility scooter or similar, it doesn't look like a standard leisure battery at all. 

Iron Giant said:

That battery looks more like the type of battery you would have for a mobility scooter or similar, it doesn't look like a standard leisure battery at all. 

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That worried me as well tbh; hence my original post. The additional cost of the optional battery is cheaper than an 85 amph leisure battery commonly available.

@Kurtis. Please ask your supplier to confirm that this battery can be charged with a vehicle's alternator via a scr in writing.

Must admit looking at it it looks more like a sealed lead acid like this 33 Ah mobility battery like @Iron Giant suggested. Although I was going on the 85Ah battery being a standard lead acid leisure battery. 

Definitely need @Kurtis to come back with more info.

Thanks for replies.

So the box is from thecleaningwarehouse.com in Willenhall near where I live.

The small batteries they came with are: KW 12-26 12v 26ah/20hr

looking now at your comments I’m assuming this is very small/weak battery? It’s similar to the genie in box you linked earlier but I got sold the lite version.

Would I better off removing both batteries and connecting the pumps/controllers to a single large leisure battery, And then a split charge relay to charge it up?

In regards to using a split charge. I only do 1 day in the town that I live. Everything else is going back 30 mins to where I used to live. And then driving between jobs. Then 30 mins back home.

The van is also my sole vehicle, so I use it on evenings and weekends too, dog walks/ shopping etc. So I was hoping all this would be enough to charge the battery?

thanks again ?

12v 26Ah batteries are small for a normal van fit. Most use at least 100Ah leisure batteries. It's always difficult to estimate how much charge gets put back in a leisure battery as say 30 mins around town probably doesn't provide much charge but 30 mins on motorway is probably a lot more. Also to complicate matters more newer vehicles can have smart alternators which have very different voltages and charging patterns. 

At the moment you have 2 complete systems so if one fails you still have 1 working system. If you change to a single battery then if that goes flat you have no working system! So bear that in mind!

Personally if I had an older van I would go for a 100Ah leisure battery with a decent split charge relay like this Durite 6M split charge relay kit as that should have all the bits you need. If you have stop/start or a smart alternator then you need something like Sterling B2B battery charger to charge a leisure battery.

Hope that gives you some ideas?

spruce said:

That worried me as well tbh; hence my original post. The additional cost of the optional battery is cheaper than an 85 amph leisure battery commonly available.

@Kurtis. Please ask your supplier to confirm that this battery can be charged with a vehicle's alternator via a scr in writing.

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Seems odd why they have changed to such a battery, yes the larger battery makes the box more heavy to move about to get it bench charged on a night as I had the Streamline version years ago.

Kurtis said:

In regards to using a split charge. I only do 1 day in the town that I live. Everything else is going back 30 mins to where I used to live. And then driving between jobs. Then 30 mins back home.

The van is also my sole vehicle, so I use it on evenings and weekends too, dog walks/ shopping etc. So I was hoping all this would be enough to charge the battery?

thanks again ?

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If you are a 2 man op, then a 100ah battery would be getting run right down each day and you would still need to bench charge it each night.

Kurtis said:

Thanks for replies.

So the box is from thecleaningwarehouse.com in Willenhall near where I live.

The small batteries they came with are: KW 12-26 12v 26ah/20hr

looking now at your comments I’m assuming this is very small/weak battery? It’s similar to the genie in box you linked earlier but I got sold the lite version.

Would I better off removing both batteries and connecting the pumps/controllers to a single large leisure battery, And then a split charge relay to charge it up?

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Yes you are better off with a bigger leisure battery. You can't use a split charge relay on those existing batteries. If on your own with just the pump running an 85amp will do but a larger 100-110 amp would be better. If you are keeping the pump box then it would need to fit inside.

They use sealed golf cart type batteries as they theoretically be laid on their side. A  maintenance free leisure still had to be kept upright at all times and it's much heavier.

What vehicle are you using? This is important as you need to consider if a split charge relay will work with your vehicle or not. Later vehicles with smart alternators/regenerative braking could well need a battery 2 battery charger.

spruce said:

If you are keeping the pump box then it would need to fit inside.

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A big battery won't fit inside the those pump boxes, I think the biggest I got from Halfords was a 75ah possible this is due to the size available 

Iron Giant said:

A big battery won't fit inside the those pump boxes, I think the biggest I got from Halfords was a 75ah possible this is due to the size available 

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This is all going to depend on the type of vehicle he uses for window cleaning, won't it? If he is using the family car then battery size will be limited to what the box can hold.

spruce said:

This is all going to depend on the type of vehicle he uses for window cleaning, won't it? If he is using the family car then battery size will be limited to what the box can hold.

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I assume those boxes are the same size as the Stream-Line pump box I had years ago which due to the pump and the also the way The Cleaning Warehouse looked to have fitted the controller as well that has also limited the size of battery that will be able to fit in the available space inside the box, 

@Kurtis mentioned previously that he has a van.