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Gardiner Backpack Issues


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Josh Lucas

Hi guys.

Just wanted to see if there was an easy solve to the backpack issues that I've had this week. 

The Gardiner Backpack I use is about 9 months old. Im 90% trad, but it gets used about every other day for a little bit. Always keep charged and everything. Would have thought it woild have lasted longer than this. Obviously the warranty is 6 months. 

At about 2 or 3 months new I had a problem with a broken spade connector, replaced it and it was fine. When backpack wouldnt fire up on Monday thought it might be the same issue. Opened her up and noticed that the other mental spade connector had split some, so replaced that and also replaced the blown fuse. 

Then when I went to test fuse blew instantly again. Have rechecked the battery connectors and put a new fuse in. Now when I run recommended test of II power first then I power, nothing happens, no sign of life. Fuse remains intact. 

Please let me know what I'm missing here as it's driving me a bit crazy. Have had to push back a couple of hundred pounds worth of work this week and wonder if I should just bite the bullet and purchase a different backpack. 

Has anyone else had similar problems with Gardiners backpack in such a short period of time? Would it be better to get water genie? I notice that at least their warranty is for a year. 

Let me know.

Appreciate any help

Josh

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Josh In that your fuse is blowing it is unlikely to be the battery at fault - if the battery was dead there would be no power to blow a fuse. Therefore if there are no shorted wires, whic

I know what you are thinking and here's a solution ill do asap.  When available I'll buy my first ever backpack, rip it down on video and rebuild one using my methods and skills in a simple step

We have used Gardiners back packs for years not for window cleaning but for chemical application mainly hypo mixes and have never had pump issues they always last around 3 years then start getting wir

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15 hours ago, Josh Lucas said:

Hi guys.

Just wanted to see if there was an easy solve to the backpack issues that I've had this week. 

The Gardiner Backpack I use is about 9 months old. Im 90% trad, but it gets used about every other day for a little bit. Always keep charged and everything. Would have thought it woild have lasted longer than this. Obviously the warranty is 6 months. 

At about 2 or 3 months new I had a problem with a broken spade connector, replaced it and it was fine. When backpack wouldnt fire up on Monday thought it might be the same issue. Opened her up and noticed that the other mental spade connector had split some, so replaced that and also replaced the blown fuse. 

Then when I went to test fuse blew instantly again. Have rechecked the battery connectors and put a new fuse in. Now when I run recommended test of II power first then I power, nothing happens, no sign of life. Fuse remains intact. 

Please let me know what I'm missing here as it's driving me a bit crazy. Have had to push back a couple of hundred pounds worth of work this week and wonder if I should just bite the bullet and purchase a different backpack. 

Has anyone else had similar problems with Gardiners backpack in such a short period of time? Would it be better to get water genie? I notice that at least their warranty is for a year. 

Let me know.

Appreciate any help

Josh

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never Hurd of this happening are you sure you have connected it up right and not got a live wire going to earth , maybe @Alex Gardiner could advise 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Josh Lucas said:

Hi guys.

Just wanted to see if there was an easy solve to the backpack issues that I've had this week. 

The Gardiner Backpack I use is about 9 months old. Im 90% trad, but it gets used about every other day for a little bit. Always keep charged and everything. Would have thought it woild have lasted longer than this. Obviously the warranty is 6 months. 

At about 2 or 3 months new I had a problem with a broken spade connector, replaced it and it was fine. When backpack wouldnt fire up on Monday thought it might be the same issue. Opened her up and noticed that the other mental spade connector had split some, so replaced that and also replaced the blown fuse. 

Then when I went to test fuse blew instantly again. Have rechecked the battery connectors and put a new fuse in. Now when I run recommended test of II power first then I power, nothing happens, no sign of life. Fuse remains intact. 

Please let me know what I'm missing here as it's driving me a bit crazy. Have had to push back a couple of hundred pounds worth of work this week and wonder if I should just bite the bullet and purchase a different backpack. 

Has anyone else had similar problems with Gardiners backpack in such a short period of time? Would it be better to get water genie? I notice that at least their warranty is for a year. 

Let me know.

Appreciate any help

Josh

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll be Frank with you, they are just your average cheap Chineseium mass produced backpack.

Ideally they need redesigning due to the shoddy wiring components and setup.

They don't handle humidity well as with any backpack with water in close proximity to electronics there is always condensation and the most exposed connections fail due to exposure.

 

The positive

Nearly all makes of the most common backpack systems can be fully rebuilt with better off the shelve parts and adding silica gel sachets inside of the bottom panel and preventative maintenance will increase their life span.

Identity the parts that have failed and replace. Its not a bank breaker.

 

Austin 

Ps, @Iron Giantmany thanks for tagging me 

Edited by Apw1210
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As @Apw1210 said the backpacks are not built to a high standard. That said you have to remember they are only £100. Understanding the basics of how they work will help you. So it's worth investing a bit of time to learn how they work.

Backpacks are in short supply at the moment so best to try and fix it.  

The wiring uses naff twist connectors but they don't need tools to use. The wiring is fairly straight forward if a little bit of a birds nest. Here is the wiring diagram:

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/Backpack_Wiring_Post_May_2020.pdf

First thing I would say is that strangely they have used the 0v line as the control line (has the switches, controller and fuse in). If you have limited experience and no multimeter then I would tackle fault finding by eliminating components. So first thing to do is charge battery. Does the voltmeter show a good voltage (you will need the switch in pos 1 or 2 to see voltage)? Now set the switch to position 1 as this is a straight connection from battery - fuse - switch (pos 1) - pump. If the pump works on position 1 (make sure the hose is open to flow) then fundamentally battery and pump is working. In pos 2 the speed controller is in between the switch and the pump, if the pump doesn't run and change speed when you rotate the **** then it looks like an issue with the speed controller or the extra cabling for the controller.

Using the wiring diagram you can follow the wires and make sure they are all connected where they should be. Maybe even fit better quality connectors. 

Connectors and water is never a good mix but the backpacks are fairly simple so with a bit of time I am sure we can get you up and running. 

Hope the above gives you some ideas on how to find the issue? If not tell us where you got  to and what you found.

Cheers @Iron Giant for the tag.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, ched999uk said:

As @Apw1210 said the backpacks are not built to a high standard. That said you have to remember they are only £100. Understanding the basics of how they work will help you. So it's worth investing a bit of time to learn how they work.

Backpacks are in short supply at the moment so best to try and fix it.  

The wiring uses naff twist connectors but they don't need tools to use. The wiring is fairly straight forward if a little bit of a birds nest. Here is the wiring diagram:

https://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/Backpack_Wiring_Post_May_2020.pdf

First thing I would say is that strangely they have used the 0v line as the control line (has the switches, controller and fuse in). If you have limited experience and no multimeter then I would tackle fault finding by eliminating components. So first thing to do is charge battery. Does the voltmeter show a good voltage (you will need the switch in pos 1 or 2 to see voltage)? Now set the switch to position 1 as this is a straight connection from battery - fuse - switch (pos 1) - pump. If the pump works on position 1 (make sure the hose is open to flow) then fundamentally battery and pump is working. In pos 2 the speed controller is in between the switch and the pump, if the pump doesn't run and change speed when you rotate the **** then it looks like an issue with the speed controller or the extra cabling for the controller.

Using the wiring diagram you can follow the wires and make sure they are all connected where they should be. Maybe even fit better quality connectors. 

Connectors and water is never a good mix but the backpacks are fairly simple so with a bit of time I am sure we can get you up and running. 

Hope the above gives you some ideas on how to find the issue? If not tell us where you got  to and what you found.

Cheers @Iron Giant for the tag.

I know what you are thinking and here's a solution ill do asap. 

When available I'll buy my first ever backpack, rip it down on video and rebuild one using my methods and skills in a simple step by step guide to assist anyone with expired warranty systems 

Edited by Apw1210
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6 minutes ago, Apw1210 said:

I know what you are thinking and he's a solution ill do asap. 

When available I'll buy my first ever backpack, rip it down on video and rebuild one using my methods and skills in a simple step by step guide to assist anyone with expired warranty systems 

To be honest I wasn't thinking that you would make a vid as I know you build your own decent 'backpacks/trolley system'. Gardiners backpacks are due in about 3 weeks. I am waiting to order a second one as a backup/chemical (just ubix type) applicator 🙂 

To be fair a backpack is the same as any van mount system really. It consists of the same components just squished under a little tank. To save the cost of buying a backpack, that you really don't need, would it be better to demo fault finding on 'standard' van mount components, say mounted on a board? That way you are not trying to film in an enclosed box under the backpack. Plus you are also helping people fault find a van system. Maybe have both backpack and van mount in the vid title so you hit both types of searches?

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I have always found that they last around 3 years or so then start becoming unreliable, I don’t like throwing things away but after that amount of use that’s what I do I cannot afford to turn up at a job and spend hours fiddling trying to get something to work it’s false economy when they cost £115 , they are cheap and nasty but a very useful thing to have and one job and it’s paid for and you are in profit 

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Josh Lucas

@ched999uk

@Apw1210

Thanks to you all for the responses.

"So first thing to do is charge battery. Does the voltmeter show a good voltage (you will need the switch in pos 1 or 2 to see voltage)?" 

No lights appear on the voltmeter at anytime. When plugged into charger, the powerpack shows a full charge (green). If I switch power on when plugged into charger the orange voltmeter light flickers and the charger goes from green to dim flickering green. 

Position 1&2. Atm inserting new fuse and switching to either position does nothing. 

Its a bit of a pain as I've had to spend a hour each evening trying to fix and seem to be getting further away from when I need to be. When I first replaced the fuse the voltmeter lite up for a second and then fuse blew. Not sure what position I went to though. All I've done since then is climp on another connector and then put a new fuse in. 

Part of me feels it's the battery, part feels it's the pump. Last time I opened her up I noticed a darkened patch below the pump, so maybe thats the issue?

Outside of buying all the parts and replacing I don't really know what to do. 

As @Pjj mentions the labour of having to try and fix almost doesn't seem worth it. Time that could be spent earning. 

Im just not very impressed that a product I purchased last July has already packed up with not a lot of use during that time.  

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Josh Lucas

I'm no electrician, part of me doubts if I've put the spade connector on right, but I replace the red wire one last September and that went fine. Im not sure if there's some basic wire technique than I'm screwing up on!

Ill attach photos below. 

1) dark mark below casing where the pump is. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it but it smells a little burnt. 

2) Initially replaced black wire connector with the yellow crimp. This was the stage when I replaced the fuse the battery blew. 

3) Crimps brought from electronic store. An electrician I no said they might be too big? I sent him above photo. They slide onto battery pretty tight though. Only thought is if I haven't attached to wire correctly, so Gardiner provided another spade connector and fuse. Since switching those I get no signs of life from the unit. 

IMG_20210430_171915640_HDR.jpg

IMG_20210426_201552745.jpg

IMG_20210426_161916838_HDR.jpg

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Iron Giant
2 hours ago, ched999uk said:

Gardiners backpacks are due in about 3 weeks

I've got one sat collecting dust in my garage hardly used £100 cash on collection 🙃

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28 minutes ago, Josh Lucas said:

I'm no electrician, part of me doubts if I've put the spade connector on right, but I replace the red wire one last September and that went fine. Im not sure if there's some basic wire technique than I'm screwing up on!

Ill attach photos below. 

1) dark mark below casing where the pump is. I'm not sure if I'm imagining it but it smells a little burnt. 

2) Initially replaced black wire connector with the yellow crimp. This was the stage when I replaced the fuse the battery blew. 

3) Crimps brought from electronic store. An electrician I no said they might be too big? I sent him above photo. They slide onto battery pretty tight though. Only thought is if I haven't attached to wire correctly, so Gardiner provided another spade connector and fuse. Since switching those I get no signs of life from the unit. 

IMG_20210430_171915640_HDR.jpg

IMG_20210426_201552745.jpg

IMG_20210426_161916838_HDR.jpg

The colour of the Crimps denote cable size that they take. I would guess red ones would be perfect for the sort of cable size in the backpack, maybe blue but yellow way too big. 

Red Terminals - 0.25mm² – 1.5mm²

Blue Terminals - 1.1mm² – 2.5mm²

Yellow Terminals - 2.7mm² – 6.0mm²

My first test would be to see if the yellow crimp is actually attached to the conductor, not just the wire insulation. I would be inclined to remove the yellow and test wire temporarily to battery and see if it works in switch position 1 or 2.

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Sorry not to reply sooner, watching f1. 

You can test motor by directly attaching it to battery, ideally with fuse. Only do it briefly as running pump dry isn't good. 

It is a bit annoying when kit doesn't last as long as you expect to say least. 

£100 isn't a small amount but compared to £400 to £500 for a pure freedom trolley the backpack is cheap! That said lots of people do use them regularly without issue. 

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Josh Lucas

@ched999uk

Thanks appreciate the tips. 

So I'll disconnect the connector and just lay the wire on the battery? Or touch wire to battery when turned on?

I have been running my test with water in backpack, but can take it out to test as described

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1 minute ago, Josh Lucas said:

@ched999uk

Thanks appreciate the tips. 

So I'll disconnect the connector and just lay the wire on the battery? Or touch wire to battery when turned on?

I have been running my test with water in backpack, but can take it out to test as described

Either way to prove that the wire is actually making a good connection. Test with water in if you want. I just assumed it was empty and uoi had turned it on its side as easier to work on. 

If touching the wire on batt with switch in pos and then rest pos 2 doesn't get the pump running, as long as hose has open end for water to get out, otherwise pump might not run as too much pressure, then try directly connecting pump to battery but just briefly as no fuse! 

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Josh Lucas

I've taken the hose connector off so that should be fine. 

For the second stage of directly trying pump on battery, would I need to disconnect the pump wires from the twist connectors and then touch to battery? 

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Josh Lucas

Sorry if these are really basic questions. I'm a bit useless at DIY! 

I really appreciate the help. I had to clean these facia boards by hand in the week, so would do anything to not have to repeat that!

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2 minutes ago, Josh Lucas said:

I've taken the hose connector off so that should be fine. 

For the second stage of directly trying pump on battery, would I need to disconnect the pump wires from the twist connectors and then touch to battery? 

Yes you would need to disconnect. Might be worth using some masking tape and marking wires before taking them apart so you can put it back together same way. 

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Josh Lucas

@ched999uk

So ran both tests and nothing. For pump direct to battery I tried the below. 

How'd will I know if its the battery or the pump that needs replacing though?

IMG_20210501_165940908.jpg

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1 minute ago, Josh Lucas said:

@ched999uk

So ran both tests and nothing. For pump direct to battery I tried the below. 

How'd will I know if its the battery or the pump that needs replacing though?

IMG_20210501_165940908.jpg

One way you could test the pump is to attach the wires to your car battery as that is 12v. At least that would show if it's the pump. 

Testing the batter either needs a multimeter or something that runs off 12v to test. Do you have anything that works off a car cigarette lighter you could temp use batter to power?

There is another potential twist, is the battery charger working?

A multimeter is quite cheap at about £8 even from screwfix: https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mas830b-digital-multimeter-600v/75337 or Amazon at £5 https://amzn.to/3aQObHx.  They are quite easy to use, just select a DC voltage above 12v say 20v then press the probes one on each better terminal and it will tell you the voltage, it's that simple. Then you could wire the battery back up as normal, test voltage then plug in charger and voltage should go up a little showing charger is supplying voltage to charge battery. 

I am trying to think of things that you could use to test battery but it's a bit tricky - you don't have a 12v car inspection lamp or something like that?

If it is the battery the screwfix sell smaller capacity ones for about £20 but they are 7Amp hrs as opposed to Gardiners ones that are 12Amp hrs so they would give you about half the running hrs a 12Amp hr would!  Toolstation have the correct voltage and capacity but I have no idea if it would fit you would have to measure current one https://www.toolstation.com/sealed-lead-acid-battery/p69745 at £26. 

Best to test pump on your car/van battery and see if that's the problem.

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