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Flat tank with or without frame?


Mark i-clean

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I have brought a new van and do not want to drill into the floor to fit my old 650ltr upright Tank.

If i was to switch to a flat tank being more stable with a low center of gravity, would i still need a frame and need to be bolted to the floor? The van has 6 very good anchor points.

Thanks

Mark

 

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3 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

I have brought a new van and do not want to drill into the floor to fit my old 650ltr upright Tank.

If i was to switch to a flat tank being more stable with a low center of gravity, would i still need a frame and need to be bolted to the floor? The van has 6 very good anchor points.

Thanks

Mark

 

It depends who you listen to!!

Safest is to do it properly but depends on the shape etc.

  • Like 1
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4 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

I have brought a new van and do not want to drill into the floor to fit my old 650ltr upright Tank.

If i was to switch to a flat tank being more stable with a low center of gravity, would i still need a frame and need to be bolted to the floor? The van has 6 very good anchor points.

Thanks

Mark

 

My best advice is to do what you think is best for you.

We can tell you yay or nay but it's down to your budget, setup requirements and your life

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4 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

I have brought a new van and do not want to drill into the floor to fit my old 650ltr upright Tank.

If i was to switch to a flat tank being more stable with a low center of gravity, would i still need a frame and need to be bolted to the floor? The van has 6 very good anchor points.

Thanks

Mark

 

As it's a flat tank I suppose if you're unfortunately involved in a head on crash the chance of you being speared on the steering column is very very slightly reduced.

Personally wouldn't use anchor points on anything with inertia.

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I use a 650ltr Wyedale flat tank. It has no frame.
The anchor rings are in just the right place for the size and shape of the tank (Merc Vito). They seem quite substantial but who knows? 

Important in my opinion.. I strapped across the front of the tank from diagonally opposite corners. My main priority is not to hold the tank down in the event of a crash. It is to hold it back. To achieve this I say again, I made sure to bring both straps across the front of the tank before crossing over the top to the diagonally opposite rings. I used proper heavy duty lorry ratchet straps and I have a very substantial original bulkhead with three robust seats in front of it in the cab.

I do drive with extreme care. That's the same whatever I'm driving.

Edited by Davy G
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Bolting a tank in with spreader plates is always the safest.

One thing you could do is to attach spreader plates under the current lashing eyes to give them a bit more support. You could even replace the lashing eyes with some decent eye bolts the same thread diameter and add spreader plates underneath. I am not saying it's the safest but might best without drilling any holes in the floor. Plus use decent branded 10 ton or more ratchet straps (not ebay or amazon as they could be fake) , they are not that expensive at about £40 inc vat each but they have a lashing capacity of about 5 ton. 

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50 minutes ago, Davy G said:

I use a 650ltr Wyedale flat tank. It has no frame.
The anchor rings are in just the right place for the size and shape of the tank (Merc Vito). They seem quite substantial but who knows? 

Important in my opinion.. I strapped across the front of the tank from diagonally opposite corners. My main priority is not to hold the tank down in the event of a crash. It is to hold it back. To achieve this I say again, I made sure to bring both straps across the front of the tank before crossing over the top to the diagonally opposite rings. I used proper heavy duty lorry ratchet straps and I have a very substantial original bulkhead with three robust seats in front of it in the cab.

I do drive with extreme care. That's the same whatever I'm driving.

I'm no conformist however I replaced all the 6 anchor points in my van with heavy duty M12 D rings and spent 4 days prepping and welding 10mm plates under all the captive fixings

My tank is secured with two 5 ton straps and a steel band

I've driven Daf T244's with much heavier loads secured with far less anchoring points so I appreciate the risks and mitigate them with knowledge respect and awareness

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19 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

I have brought a new van and do not want to drill into the floor to fit my old 650ltr upright Tank.

If i was to switch to a flat tank being more stable with a low center of gravity, would i still need a frame and need to be bolted to the floor? The van has 6 very good anchor points.

Thanks

Mark

 

Define very good anchor points, below are the ones I took out of my van, I thought they were quite substantial until I took them out and saw just how much they weren't 

20200202_115541.jpg

20200202_115500.jpg

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20 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

I have brought a new van and do not want to drill into the floor to fit my old 650ltr upright Tank.

If i was to switch to a flat tank being more stable with a low center of gravity, would i still need a frame and need to be bolted to the floor? The van has 6 very good anchor points.

Thanks

Mark

 

I can understand your issue if the van is a lease vehicle - ie. not registered in your name and not yours at the end of the day.

But it's a work vehicle to earn you money. If your aren't alive then saving drilling holes in the floor was a high price to pay for your life.

It's part of your tool kit. If you buy a brand new hammer you are going to use it for the purpose it was designed for: hammering in nails, etc.

It's just a new bucket of bolts, not a Rolls Royce. It will depreciate in the same way as every other van does. I'm not saying don't look after it. Treat it well and it will treat you well back.

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2 hours ago, Iron Giant said:

Define very good anchor points, below are the ones I took out of my van, I thought they were quite substantial until I took them out and saw just how much they weren't 

20200202_115541.jpg

20200202_115500.jpg

So many van have these style, the shearing force to rip those out is around 100kgs as the D ring tears through the vehicle body like a knife through butter

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OK So drilling holes it is then.  I guess i always knew i would have to.

Should it be simply  bolted on to the floor with large  spreader  plates fitted underneath the vehicle or would i need to drill into the box section frame. Which would i guess would weaken the frame?

Thanks guys for all you responses. A very helpful  bunch you are

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2 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

OK So drilling holes it is then.  I guess i always knew i would have to.

Should it be simply  bolted on to the floor with large  spreader  plates fitted underneath the vehicle or would i need to drill into the box section frame. Which would i guess would weaken the frame?

Thanks guys for all you responses. A very helpful  bunch you are

My best advice for you is to ask a mechanic to bolt it in for you.

It's an easy job when it's done correctly but when you are not sure there's a high risk of error

Fuel lines, brake lines, electrical harness, Ad blue lines all need to be out of the way from any installation as damaging them will ruin your day

Edited by Apw1210
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21 hours ago, Apw1210 said:

So many van have these style, the shearing force to rip those out is around 100kgs as the D ring tears through the vehicle body like a knife through butter

I was just really shocked as to how inadequate they were and no doubt are 

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18 hours ago, Mark i-clean said:

OK So drilling holes it is then.  I guess i always knew i would have to.

Should it be simply  bolted on to the floor with large  spreader  plates fitted underneath the vehicle or would i need to drill into the box section frame. Which would i guess would weaken the frame?

Thanks guys for all you responses. A very helpful  bunch you are

This has always been a good question. Suppliers such as Grippatank and Purefreedom use spreader plates for underneath the van's floor. 

I would ask the question of bolting through your van's chassis of your future MOT inspector. At MOT this is a grey area which falls to each inspector to decide if drilling a hole though the chassis/box section will weaken the van's integrity. I say this because the inspector at what is now Kwikfit used to MOT my old van for years. He would fail the van if a hole was drilled through the chassis. Honestly, I can understand why he has a rigid approach to this.

However most others wouldn't. My current van has 5 holes drilled through the chassis rails and 4 spreader plates on the floor. The current MOT inspector hasn't flagged this up as an issue at all. (My old van was class 4 where this one is class 7. Kwikfit don't do class 7 in our area.)

But as my tank is now fitted width ways across my van in the middle of the cargo area, securing it better was very important to me.

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13 minutes ago, Iron Giant said:

I was just really shocked as to how inadequate they were and no doubt are 

I agree. There is no owners manual in any van sold that will indicate the shear strength of these cargo hooks, so owners just think they will hold anything and everything.

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25 minutes ago, spruce said:

I agree. There is no owners manual in any van sold that will indicate the shear strength of these cargo hooks, so owners just think they will hold anything and everything.

Bewildering why there has never been any guidance as to what they are capable of, but I would guess with smaller vans more so the weight of the loads we carry isn't the norm across the board I bet we are one of the only trades that carry such heavy loads on a daily basis.

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Shouldn't be difficult to test and publish a safe load rating if no corrosion present. And a minimum failure strain. They do it with lifting slings. The rate is lower if the sling is wet.

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3 hours ago, Iron Giant said:

I was just really shocked as to how inadequate they were and no doubt are 

The best most standard one's were older transits using M10 hardened hex bolts but that day has long gone.

Most newer vans are designed for carrying and securing sofas not bank heist safes

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9 hours ago, Davy G said:

Shouldn't be difficult to test and publish a safe load rating if no corrosion present. And a minimum failure strain. They do it with lifting slings. The rate is lower if the sling is wet.

I might build a testing jig. I have some RSJ and hydraulic ram in my porta power kit. All high tensile bolts have shearing force data. I could grab many OEM bolts and eyes from scrap yards and do a control to use as a starting reference

I know from experience that the floor mounted OEM captive welded nuts tear out of the floor like a tin opener

Edited by Apw1210
  • Like 2
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12 hours ago, spruce said:

This has always been a good question. Suppliers such as Grippatank and Purefreedom use spreader plates for underneath the van's floor. 

I would ask the question of bolting through your van's chassis of your future MOT inspector. At MOT this is a grey area which falls to each inspector to decide if drilling a hole though the chassis/box section will weaken the van's integrity. I say this because the inspector at what is now Kwikfit used to MOT my old van for years. He would fail the van if a hole was drilled through the chassis. Honestly, I can understand why he has a rigid approach to this.

However most others wouldn't. My current van has 5 holes drilled through the chassis rails and 4 spreader plates on the floor. The current MOT inspector hasn't flagged this up as an issue at all. (My old van was class 4 where this one is class 7. Kwikfit don't do class 7 in our area.)

But as my tank is now fitted width ways across my van in the middle of the cargo area, securing it better was very important to me.

Usually you can use an existing hole already in the chassis most vans have them the shale and swaging of the hole is supposed to make the chassis stronger 

  • Agree 2
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