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Which Van? Stick with diesel or go electric?


Edward Baskerville

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Hi guys, just wondering if there is anyone out there who has switched to an all electric van?

Looking to upgrade my small transit connect to a medium sized van I.e. custom or expert sort of size.

I'm also looking to install hot water system etc.

My only concern is payloads. Probably put 650l in. Do I just go for diesel van and wait longer until electric has improved... 

Just wondering if anyone out there has made the jump. 

Cheers.

 

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Electric vehicles are ok but at this time my major concern is the range per charge , my man tge if electric has a maximum range of 90 miles so in real world driving I would be lucky to get half that so for me it’s an easy decision it’s totally useless , I think it will be at least another 10 years before battery technology is up to giving decent ranges of a real world figures of 200 miles plus .

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I know what you mean. I find I don't travel far due to my round being really close knit together. Then I thought of a hybrid but are they really that worth it?

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27 minutes ago, Edward Baskerville said:

I know what you mean. I find I don't travel far due to my round being really close knit together. Then I thought of a hybrid but are they really that worth it?

I don't know if they have changed the way they rate hybrids but the mitsubishi outlander phev was a marketing ploy. It had stupid low miles on battery but the fuel economy figures gave it something like 200mpg!!! 

I have read that 1 or 2 windys have Nissan EV200 vans - one of the problems they had was trying to work out how to bolt a tank to the floor with the battery in the way!!!! So have a look under any prospective van to see where the battery is. That said I do believe 1 of the windys did get a system manufacturer to bolt in a system. It might be worth a search on here.

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Both Streamline & Ionics have managed to install systems in electric vans. Not sure about the others. If your seriously considering it give them a ring & find out their thoughts. As @Pjj said, real world range is going to be a big issue. It’s ok if your round is compact or if you can charge every night. I look forward to having a electric van but don’t think they’re ready yet for us. Though I hope to keep my van for another 5 years at least, so maybe by then 
 

https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTY4OTcwNDgyNDUwNjk1MDoyMzIwOTMzODM4MDUwNjk5

https://m.facebook.com/watch/?v=171227461671604

Edited by Master Jedi Alejandro
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Suppose it's figuring out how much I'd lose on the van in 5 years and if I could resell it for decent money, as electric will keep advancing. Lot of number crunching I guess!

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Right now I think it's all pie in the sky as far a as vans go, I'd be amazed if they actually manage to phase out the sale of new petrol and diesel motors by 2030 I just don't see it happening, also the thing with us windys we are quite unique in having bolted in systems we won't even have been considered, just like when architects designed houses years ago with inaccessible windows before wfp 

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3 hours ago, Iron Giant said:

Right now I think it's all pie in the sky as far a as vans go, I'd be amazed if they actually manage to phase out the sale of new petrol and diesel motors by 2030 I just don't see it happening, also the thing with us windys we are quite unique in having bolted in systems we won't even have been considered, just like when architects designed houses years ago with inaccessible windows before wfp 

If you look at the videos above, they’ve successfully installed systems into battery vans, as the chassis was still accessible. 

I see 2030 being no problem for electric cars, every week another one is announced. The biggest bottleneck I think will be making sure there is enough chargers, but that needs investment to sort it out. 
 

As far as vans & heavier goods, I’m not quite sure as it seems to be harder to get decent range. 

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13 hours ago, Edward Baskerville said:

Suppose it's figuring out how much I'd lose on the van in 5 years and if I could resell it for decent money, as electric will keep advancing. Lot of number crunching I guess!

I asked my mechanic about sell on value. He said that some of the earlier electric cars had little sell on value, because the newer ones were much more advanced. I think I'm right in saying that the manufacturer insists on you using their dealerships for service and repair etc, leading to eye watering service bills. I'm hoping to make the shift in about 8years or so...

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2 hours ago, Jonny 67 said:

I asked my mechanic about sell on value. He said that some of the earlier electric cars had little sell on value, because the newer ones were much more advanced. I think I'm right in saying that the manufacturer insists on you using their dealerships for service and repair etc, leading to eye watering service bills. I'm hoping to make the shift in about 8years or so...

One possible way to give you an idea on residual values is to look at electric cars like the Nissan leaf as they have been around for a good few years and also had a battery capacity increase from the early ones. 

As for servicing I'm not sure that a manufacturer can do that. While in warranty you would be stupid not to get it serviced by the main dealer. After that then any garage should be fine to service the cars.

If you look up Nissan leafs on youtube there are so many modifications, battery swaps etc it's just amazing what can be done and what 'accessories' 3rd parties bring out to modify things. While technology marches on so has the 'hobby' of tweaking things and learning how things work. Hobby electronics have advances at an unbelievable rate - I trained as an electronics engineer back in late 80's and the kit that is now available for a few £ would have only been possible by spending literally millions of £. 

If the costs were not as high I would be very interested in an electric van as my round is very compact and I do very few miles plus I have off street parking so easy to recharge. The Nissan ENV200 about 5 years old are still commanding £15K but they do have nice spec with heated windscreens, steering wheels and seats, plus air con etc.

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9 minutes ago, ched999uk said:

One possible way to give you an idea on residual values is to look at electric cars like the Nissan leaf as they have been around for a good few years and also had a battery capacity increase from the early ones. 

As for servicing I'm not sure that a manufacturer can do that. While in warranty you would be stupid not to get it serviced by the main dealer. After that then any garage should be fine to service the cars.

If you look up Nissan leafs on youtube there are so many modifications, battery swaps etc it's just amazing what can be done and what 'accessories' 3rd parties bring out to modify things. While technology marches on so has the 'hobby' of tweaking things and learning how things work. Hobby electronics have advances at an unbelievable rate - I trained as an electronics engineer back in late 80's and the kit that is now available for a few £ would have only been possible by spending literally millions of £. 

If the costs were not as high I would be very interested in an electric van as my round is very compact and I do very few miles plus I have off street parking so easy to recharge. The Nissan ENV200 about 5 years old are still commanding £15K but they do have nice spec with heated windscreens, steering wheels and seats, plus air con etc.

I've just bought a low mileage diesel, and will look at my options in 5 years, as to whether stick or twist. You only have to look at the advancement of mobile phone technology to see what is achievable in a short space of time...

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On 12/09/2021 at 10:10, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

If you look at the videos above, they’ve successfully installed systems into battery vans, as the chassis was still accessible. 

I see 2030 being no problem for electric cars, every week another one is announced. The biggest bottleneck I think will be making sure there is enough chargers, but that needs investment to sort it out. 
 

As far as vans & heavier goods, I’m not quite sure as it seems to be harder to get decent range. 

Firstly sorry for not replying sooner and I had completely missed your previous reply, only time will tell as always 

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Bigger problem is electricity generation and distribution. I have not read much about actually building new power stations! The gov are trying to switch us all to electric cars, banning gas boilers, but each time a new power station is announced before it's started they get cancelled!!! They have also suggested that by default chargers wont charge between 6pm and 9pm!!

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On 14/09/2021 at 17:15, Iron Giant said:

Firstly sorry for not replying sooner and I had completely missed your previous reply, only time will tell as always 

True. I also can't see battery driven as the future for the whole world. I appreciate that the UK is more compact than say the USA. In the States people travel long distances. If you look at some Youtube videos people have mega miles on the clocks of vehicles coming into a garage for repairs. I've seen some ranging from 150 to 250k. Electric vehicles aren't going to be the sole answer in that country. What about Australia? Those who live outside the main centres couldn't survive on electric vehicles. 

Interestingly that Toyota is also working on developing the hydrogen combustion engine as they believe that hydrogen is going to be the long term future.

Just because Volvo and others have announced that petrol and diesel driven engines will no longer be manufactured by 2030 doesn't mean that they will not change that commitment closer to the time, any more than the Tories telling us they won't raise taxes in their election manifesto.

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6 hours ago, spruce said:

True. I also can't see battery driven as the future for the whole world. I appreciate that the UK is more compact than say the USA. In the States people travel long distances. If you look at some Youtube videos people have mega miles on the clocks of vehicles coming into a garage for repairs. I've seen some ranging from 150 to 250k. Electric vehicles aren't going to be the sole answer in that country. What about Australia? Those who live outside the main centres couldn't survive on electric vehicles. 

Interestingly that Toyota is also working on developing the hydrogen combustion engine as they believe that hydrogen is going to be the long term future.

Just because Volvo and others have announced that petrol and diesel driven engines will no longer be manufactured by 2030 doesn't mean that they will not change that commitment closer to the time, any more than the Tories telling us they won't raise taxes in their election manifesto.

I like the idea of Hydrogen powered cars as we already have the infrastructure in place the waste gas is water so no CO or NI emissions. Then there is no need to have heavy battery packs in a vehicle . There would also need to be a big Improvement in recycling of worn batteries do deal with the Cobalt, Nickel and Lithium. Nickel is already in short supply and is a rare earth metal. For electric cars to be effective in the future they will also be a need to scale up recycling of worn batteries

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7 hours ago, spruce said:

True. I also can't see battery driven as the future for the whole world. I appreciate that the UK is more compact than say the USA. In the States people travel long distances. If you look at some Youtube videos people have mega miles on the clocks of vehicles coming into a garage for repairs. I've seen some ranging from 150 to 250k. Electric vehicles aren't going to be the sole answer in that country. What about Australia? Those who live outside the main centres couldn't survive on electric vehicles. 

Interestingly that Toyota is also working on developing the hydrogen combustion engine as they believe that hydrogen is going to be the long term future.

Just because Volvo and others have announced that petrol and diesel driven engines will no longer be manufactured by 2030 doesn't mean that they will not change that commitment closer to the time, any more than the Tories telling us they won't raise taxes in their election manifesto.

Ford back in the 1980 developed hydrogen engines and had production vehicles out there but the American government paid them off to shelve it and not mass produce them , not sure why , I think it would be the perfect answer rather than electric or fossil fuels , talking to my plumber the other day he said as of now all  mains gas boilers have to be able to run on hydrogen so when the switch over comes they can still work 

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7 hours ago, spruce said:

any more than the Tories telling us they won't raise taxes in their election manifesto.

Exactly this, it's just words they are just spouting words and laying it at the door of others 

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1 hour ago, Ian Sheppard said:

I like the idea of Hydrogen powered cars as we already have the infrastructure in place the waste gas is water so no CO or NI emissions. Then there is no need to have heavy battery packs in a vehicle . There would also need to be a big Improvement in recycling of worn batteries do deal with the Cobalt, Nickel and Lithium. Nickel is already in short supply and is a rare earth metal. For electric cars to be effective in the future they will also be a need to scale up recycling of worn batteries

I was reading the plan with the batteries is to use them in other capacities. So when a battery only has, say 60% of its original capacity, it’s no use in a car but is still perfect for us in a power storage application (storing excess power generated by solar, hydro etc) when room is no issue (and they can be stacked). The plan is to take older batteries and continue to use them in this way. Would be good if they could pull something like that off!

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2 minutes ago, Master Jedi Alejandro said:

I was reading the plan with the batteries is to use them in other capacities. So when a battery only has, say 60% of its original capacity, it’s no use in a car but is still perfect for us in a power storage application (storing excess power generated by solar, hydro etc) when room is no issue (and they can be stacked). The plan is to take older batteries and continue to use them in this way. Would be good if they could pull something like that off!

That was my understanding too this will extend the life of ex electric car batteries for a while, They will reach a point where they are not able to hold the current and need to be scrapped/recycled. There will be a need for proper recycling facilities Lithium is highly combustible ( why they wont let you out laptops in the hold of a plane)

Found this link that suggests there will be a shortage of materials to make batteries unless there is a series effort to recycle https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/battery-recycling-efforts-pick-up-as-cobalt-lithium-face-potential-deficit-64847803

The Nickel is a rare metal that has to be mined as does the cobolt. There is a limited supply of these. In part its why so many companies are now looking at exploiting meteors and even the moon at some point.

The battery packs for a car a quite large as there are multiple batteries connected together. Hydrogen fuel vehicles is well understood and as PJJ commented has been around for 40 years. It would have need a lot less investment and new infrastructure.

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2 hours ago, Pjj said:

Ford back in the 1980 developed hydrogen engines and had production vehicles out there but the American government paid them off to shelve it and not mass produce them , not sure why , I think it would be the perfect answer rather than electric or fossil fuels , talking to my plumber the other day he said as of now all  mains gas boilers have to be able to run on hydrogen so when the switch over comes they can still work 

The problem with hydrogen is storing and distributing it in a way that it can be taxed.

All new electric vehicle charging points at home have to be connected to a smart meter. They say that its so they can trigger the car to charge during the wee hours of the night, when electricity is in least demand. They also have the ability to put a tariff on electric vehicle charging at some point in the future.

Many years ago the electric grid in South Africa could switch our electric geysers off at peak current draw times and switch them back on when electricity draw reduced later in the evening. We often had to reset our geysers when the hot water ran cold as they failed to switch them back on. I can see something similar happening in future here when the electric vehicle failed to charge overnight and the owner left stranded.

Experience has left me rather dubious I'm afraid.

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