Welcome to the UK Window Cleaning Forums

Starting or own a window cleaning business? We're a network of window cleaners sharing advice, tips & experience. Rounds for sale & more. Join us today!

Undervaluing our work

It is an interesting read, for sure. Real food for thought. I've worked in several different, mostly working class careers since leaving school at 14 years of age in about 1970, just over 50 years ago. Each career quite different to the others, different chapters in the same book :
Mobile burger/chip van trader at 14 years of age, delivery van driver, night watchman with Major, my beefy German Shepherd, motorway construction labourer, pipeline labourer, utility contractors labourer (water, gas, fibre optical cable, and sewage treatment works construction) ; later, fusion welder on polyethylene water mains, specialist assistance and show dog breeder (Labradoodles and Bullmasiffs), smallholder, garden maintenance, artic bulk haulage driver.

One of the most important decisions I made at a very young age was that I was not going to be the same as everyone else just to fit in. I was quiet and conscientious but I refused to be mediocre. I saught modest adventures: night surf sea angling, rock-hopping wave dodging sea angling, white water kayaking, surf kayaking, sea kayaking and coaching, wild camping.

At work, I would ask respectfully for and usually get a pay increase when others, often the gobby ones, would be afraid to ask. I made it known, I was paying a mortgage, running a nice though old car and was trying to build and improve my life.  

This is a tip I give to everyone starting out : Have vision and imagination. Stand out whether as a professional or, when new in business, strive to be professional in whatever we do. Respect ourselves and charge a fair (but higher end of) rate for our work. Don't price cheaper than necessary for fear of not getting work. Quality and professionalism goes a long way towards selling itself. The courage to be firm and tenacious is a crucial ingredient in building a thriving and vibrant  business.

I still see some of the same windys trading that I was seeing 7 years ago. Some are still driving tatty old bangers with bits of rope holding the ladders on the car roof (surviving). Happy with their lot, I guess. Good for them.  Others, who came across as professional at the time have built up busy and prosperous looking rounds and noticibly improved their businesses in the same area and the same roads (thriving) . Which one would a serious type of customer rather see parked outside and working on their property? Which one would they rather the neighbours to see parked and working at their house? Several other windys have come and gone in my seven years trading. I have seen more different traders in the last few weeks than I have seen in a long time but I won't be changing tack unless it's absolutely forced upon me by sheer numbers of undercutting competition. I'm quietly confident in the strength and stability of my business.

"Hold the line and refuse to be mediocre." We'll be alright. ??

 
Last edited by a moderator:
We used to run holiday apartments and in the first year just priced as previous owners. We took over in November (effectively closed season) and carried out a fair bit of work over the winter. Were worried that we needed income so needed every booking. We were booked up within the first week of January for kids holidays! The phone would continue to ring and we didn't have any vacancies. Some of the people were not the best and we had a few 'issues'. So the following year we raised our prices by 100%, we received fewer bookings but they were the people willing to pay for decent accommodation and much more respectable! Plus we had about half the work for the same money so more profit! 

Work smarter not harder!!!!

 
I still see some of the same windys trading that I was seeing 7 years ago. Some are still driving tatty old bangers with bits of rope holding the ladders on the car roof (surviving). Happy with their lot, I guess. Good for them.  Others, who came across as professional at the time have built up busy and prosperous looking rounds and noticibly improved their businesses in the same area and the same roads (thriving) . Which one would a serious type of customer rather see parked outside and working on their property? Which one would they rather the neighbours to see parked and working at their house? Several other windys have come and gone in my seven years trading. I have seen more different traders in the last few weeks than I have seen in a long time but I won't be changing tack unless it's absolutely forced upon me by sheer numbers of undercutting competition. I'm quietly confident in the strength and stability of my business.

"Hold the line and refuse to be mediocre." We'll be alright. ??
I completely respect all your advice on here and agree with most of the things you say, however the idea that a shiny new van is going to provide more work is false.  My van is old, a bit tatty and I rarely wash it.  The inside is always a mess.  It's not that I like it that way, but it's just how I am.  However it's not held me back from getting more work.  My rates are getting ridiculous now, so this perception that a new van or even just a clean shiny van will make a difference is just false.

I liken it to a bloke going into a bar with the best shoes, expensive watch, nice expensive clothes and expecting to get women fall at his feet.  You then get some scruffy git stroll in like he doesn't give a **** and he pulls a hot looking woman, how?

The answer to both is confidence, confidence in your own self is what sells.  When you believe in yourself you can almost do what you like, it's like you're invincible and the more success you get the more invincible you feel so you ask for more, you get more, you feel more and more invincible.  It's like a snowball effect.

If you believe a new van will give you success it will give you confidence in a way but the first no you get will knock you.  If you have pretty much nothing fancy to show [i operate from a trolley as well] but are getting lots of yes' then that gives you so much confidence as you know it's purely you're own self that is getting it right.

I'm not saying get a tatty van for ultimate success, but the idea a new van separates the successful from the unsuccessful is false.  I'm close to earning 50 an hour now on new work and I drive one of those bangers.

End of the day people want good service, that's turning up regular, doing as good a job as you reasonably can, being friendly, looking washed shaven and smart, communicating well and being friendly.  The ones that fail can't get these basics right, I hear it all the time.

 
I completely respect all your advice on here and agree with most of the things you say, however the idea that a shiny new van is going to provide more work is false.  My van is old, a bit tatty and I rarely wash it.  The inside is always a mess.  It's not that I like it that way, but it's just how I am.  However it's not held me back from getting more work.  My rates are getting ridiculous now, so this perception that a new van or even just a clean shiny van will make a difference is just false.

I liken it to a bloke going into a bar with the best shoes, expensive watch, nice expensive clothes and expecting to get women fall at his feet.  You then get some scruffy git stroll in like he doesn't give a **** and he pulls a hot looking woman, how?

The answer to both is confidence, confidence in your own self is what sells.  When you believe in yourself you can almost do what you like, it's like you're invincible and the more success you get the more invincible you feel so you ask for more, you get more, you feel more and more invincible.  It's like a snowball effect.

If you believe a new van will give you success it will give you confidence in a way but the first no you get will knock you.  If you have pretty much nothing fancy to show [i operate from a trolley as well] but are getting lots of yes' then that gives you so much confidence as you know it's purely you're own self that is getting it right.

I'm not saying get a tatty van for ultimate success, but the idea a new van separates the successful from the unsuccessful is false.  I'm close to earning 50 an hour now on new work and I drive one of those bangers.

End of the day people want good service, that's turning up regular, doing as good a job as you reasonably can, being friendly, looking washed shaven and smart, communicating well and being friendly.  The ones that fail can't get these basics right, I hear it all the time.
Well said and very well done

A new van won't make we should all know that well enough as plenty spending money on new vans and systems but can't run a business

although I'm sure @Davy G wasn't really meaning a new van makes it all as I know his van has a few years on it, mine is 6 years old but could look better with some alloys on a polish etc it would give a better outward appearance.

As for the undervaluing this industry could be one of the worst offenders, but the service has to warrant the price no point offering a 3 star service and trying to charge a 5 star price

 
I don't see where I said anything about a shiny new van. I'm not knocking anyone, just telling it as I know it to be. I believe in confidence but I also believe in presentation. My work van, by the way is far from new. It's nearly fifteen years old. I've never had or felt the need for a new or nearly new vehicle. It is smartly sign written and well presented. My observations locally are exactly as I described and 100 percent accurate. I wouldn't wish to insult anyone. Some might be fine with tatty presentation, especially once well established but It's not for me and I wouldn't advise it for anyone starting out. Only one chance to make a first impression. If I didn't have a presentable van I wouldn't have the confidence I have in my business and my pricing.

An example on presentation : years ago when I went for an interview for work on a cross country pipeline. I didn't turn up in a suit (not a suit and tie type job). I didn't turn up in wellies. I turned up dressed more like a Canadian rigger or logger. I wasn't built like a logger but I looked and spoke like a professional. I was hired and respected as a serious, reliable looking individual from first impression at the interview.

Makes no difference to me if folk want to go to work with a bad bicycle and sidecar but I would advise against it. ??

 
I don't see where I said anything about a shiny new van. I'm not knocking anyone, just telling it as I know it to be. I believe in confidence but I also believe in presentation. My work van, by the way is far from new. It's nearly fifteen years old. I've never had or felt the need for a new or nearly new vehicle. It is smartly sign written and well presented. My observations locally are exactly as I described and 100 percent accurate. I wouldn't wish to insult anyone. Some might be fine with tatty presentation, especially once well established but It's not for me and I wouldn't advise it for anyone starting out. Only one chance to make a first impression. If I didn't have a presentable van I wouldn't have the confidence I have in my business and my pricing.

An example on presentation : years ago when I went for an interview for work on a cross country pipeline. I didn't turn up in a suit (not a suit and tie type job). I didn't turn up in wellies. I turned up dressed more like a Canadian rigger or logger. I wasn't built like a logger but I looked and spoke like a professional. I was hired and respected as a serious, reliable looking individual from first impression at the interview.

Makes no difference to me if folk want to go to work with a bad bicycle and sidecar but I would advise against it. ??
The problem is with the perception that a clean, newer looking van will make the difference.  It's wrong to think that, as I've proven it doesn't.  The problem is you will get people who are wondering why their business isn't getting the returns that they want / need and they will start thinking they need a new van and it will make a difference.  In reality they will just be spending money they haven't got and still get similar results.  It's not the van that makes the difference, it's the person.

To give you an example, I've done kart racing in the past.  The ones that win all the time tend to have new karts, new engines etc.  The ones that are mid pack have this common belief that they are not at the front because their kart is 2 years old, their engine hasn't just been rebuilt, their tyres are 20 laps older... etc.  However I've seen these guys at the front race older karts and still win races.  So it's not the kart that will win you the race, it's the guy driving the kart.  

It's the self limiting beliefs that it's something out of your control that is preventing an individuals success that is the main problem.  Self worth is the key ingredient to success. 

 
For the last 4 years it's been cheaper to buy a nice new shiny van then a 3 year old one. Both my vans are new and my newest one I can sell for more then I paid for it. My "old one" is selling for circa £18.5k and I paid £21k for it.

It's not always a vanity decision, for both my purchases I scoured the 2nd hand van market for 6 months and both times buying a new one was circa £3k more expensive then buying a 3 year old van with 40k miles on the clock so was a good business decision.

 
For the last 4 years it's been cheaper to buy a nice new shiny van then a 3 year old one. Both my vans are new and my newest one I can sell for more then I paid for it. My "old one" is selling for circa £18.5k and I paid £21k for it.

It's not always a vanity decision, for both my purchases I scoured the 2nd hand van market for 6 months and both times buying a new one was circa £3k more expensive then buying a 3 year old van with 40k miles on the clock so was a good business decision.
I have been keeping an eye on the market as hopefully in April I will be getting a van. I thought it was just the last year or so where used van prices have rocketed.

I have been looking at small vans Bipper/Doblo size and there is only a couple of £K between brand new with lots of kit and 3 year warranty vs a 3 year old 50K van! It's mad, who would save just a couple of £K to have virtually zero warranty, less kit and a van with 50k miles on the clock?

 
I have been keeping an eye on the market as hopefully in April I will be getting a van. I thought it was just the last year or so where used van prices have rocketed.

I have been looking at small vans Bipper/Doblo size and there is only a couple of £K between brand new with lots of kit and 3 year warranty vs a 3 year old 50K van! It's mad, who would save just a couple of £K to have virtually zero warranty, less kit and a van with 50k miles on the clock?
It's been like this since 2 years after Euro 6 came out. Most people that could afford a newish van wouldn't buy a Euro 5. Admittedly a fair bit worse at this present moment but even when the car / van production sorts itself out I think the difference will still mean a new van will be a better purchase.

Early part of this year when I started to look for another van a 3 year old Traffic / Vivaro with 40k on the clock was £15k + VAT, now £18k + VAT, when I paid £20.5k, Inc VAT, for a brand new one OTR, so just over £2k more. Absolute no brainer.

 
Most big companies lease their vehicles as it releases cash flow and is apparently the most tax efficient way to do it..
I was working for a company who had the Scottish Power contract. They leased new vans and even the AA changed our tyres when we had a puncture. It makes good sense when the contract doesn't get renewed because they can hand the vehicles back. Everything seems to be focused on short term now.

 
Early part of this year when I started to look for another van a 3 year old Traffic / Vivaro with 40k on the clock was £15k + VAT, now £18k + VAT, when I paid £20.5k, Inc VAT, for a brand new one OTR, so just over £2k more. Absolute no brainer.
The new van was actually cheaper then? Wasn't it £17K +vat = £20.5K? Or was it £18k used £20.5k new both + Vat? Either way new was no brainer.

 
As my accountant put it "You're just robbing Peter to pay Paul" either you pay the tax or you buy a new van either way it's a bill which has to be paid. 
My accountant said to me either you buy a new van and you benefit from the expense or you dont buy one and the tax man will benefit from your hard work .  This is a very emotive subject years ago I had a van that worked fine and was always kept clean and had nice sign writing on it , but it was rusty around wheel arches and bottoms of doors on a light blue van this did stand out , I had two of my large commercial clients say that the van was letting my business down and looked tatty and didn’t represent the standard that I worked to and I should get a new one , after a lot of thought I listened to them and bought a new van , and from that point on picked up far more lucrative work as people view you as more successful with a new van , I know many will poo poo this and disagree and that’s fine but that’s my personal fundings , and we are still picking up lots of nice jobs and many comment that they phoned us as our vehicles look good and kept nice and that gave them confidence that we would look after there properties the same , one evan said that he had two other firms quote for his hotel and they were a fair bit cheaper than my quote but they felt the other firms vans looked tatty And uncared for that they felt that if they couldn’t keep there van looking good they had no pride in themselves or their standard of work . I have had a meeting this evening with the regional manager of a very large firm we do a lot of work for and he commented on our vans in the car park saying they sold my services to there company he also stated that when selecting firms to do work for them that it is one of the things that they want is decent contractors with nice signed vans , so the customers do notice these  things 

Please note this isn’t a rant or saying you need a brand new 50k plus van to get work but in some cases it does help win contracts , as I found out tonight . 

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest Posts

Back
Top