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Pegasus

Wfp? No Thanks!

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Pegasus

Used backpack for first exposure to wfp for last 2 months. Generally very good results and only one complaint on results but now happy enough. Then today get thanks but no thanks from 3 customers.

1. Doesn't like all excess water.

2. Wants me to squeegee water off - she is 90!

3. Decorater husband doesn't like brush potentially damaging paintwork.

 

Told them still have ladders but all poor excuses to say no to wfp.

 

How do others deal with wfp rejection?

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All Round Cleaning

Dump and replace lol simple .

Why trad a house when you could wfp 2 houses in the same time ???

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bluemonkey

say ok, no probs and walk away, if they want you to squeegee off then this is different, but if some one wants trad, just say don't do it H and S, wont allow it

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Posh

I still don't understand why people do not want to trad. What is the problem with it. You must have so much work to be able to just dump & carry on. As for H & S won't allow it??? I'd rather get on me ladders & earn £30-40 then just not do em just coz I won't climb a ladder. Just my opinion.

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bluemonkey

H and S wont allow it, the law states that the safest method must be used, if you have a accident on a custys property you will get done and so will they for allowing you to work with ladders, unless there is no other safer alternative

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Posh

So how come we all still use ladders & no one say owt. There's 100s of traders out there?

Why is there saftey equipment for ladders out there?

What your saying then is every window cleaner should be wfp?

 

He's gonna look silly telling people your not aloud to use ladders no more & then she/he walks down the road & sees 2-3 windows cleaning on ladders.

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bluemonkey

because there is a very small percentage of accidents compare to ladder use, and a even smaller amount of these are fatal, I didn't say they would all I said is what the law states, there was a court case that went to court over a builder a few years ago, a worker fell off a ladder, so sued the house owner and employer, all where found guilt of breaking h and s, each 33%, worker for using the ladder, employer for not supplying scaffolding, and the home owner for allowing them to work on there property with ladders

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Tuffers
Used backpack for first exposure to wfp for last 2 months. Generally very good results and only one complaint on results but now happy enough. Then today get thanks but no thanks from 3 customers.

1. Doesn't like all excess water.

2. Wants me to squeegee water off - she is 90!

3. Decorater husband doesn't like brush potentially damaging paintwork.

Told them still have ladders but all poor excuses to say no to wfp.

How do others deal with wfp rejection?

I think I've only got 2 that said no to wfp from the start. I couldn't convince them at all (both old and set in their ways). I trad them both £15 and £25 per month. Any new jobs are wfp apart from one who insisted on trad which I don't mind.

 

I personally prefer wfp, but if people want trad then give them trad if it suites you.

 

If the three jobs are worth keeping, offer trad again. Money is money, I don't understand this dumping syndrome myself.

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Tuffers
because there is a very small percentage of accidents compare to ladder use, and a even smaller amount of these are fatal, I didn't say they would all I said is what the law states, there was a court case that went to court over a builder a few years ago, a worker fell off a ladder, so sued the house owner and employer, all where found guilt of breaking h and s, each 33%, worker for using the ladder, employer for not supplying scaffolding, and the home owner for allowing them to work on there property with ladders

How often do we see painters use scaffolding? If we're not supposed to use ladders, why are they allowed to make and sell them?

 

Not having a pop BTW, just pointing stuff out.

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Guest OoO

It's up to you if you go back to trad or not.

 

Me personally no way.

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bluemonkey

I didn't say ladders where banned, I personally wont do a job where they are need or the custy wants trad, I just said h and s wont allow it, which if you read the law says they can be used, but only in certain circumstances

 

if a wc wants to use ladders, let them,

 

council workers have to use scaffolding when painting or putting in new windows, but lots don't, as its not a problem till there is an accident and some one trys to claim, and this is how h and s work all ok, till a accident and then the law comes in

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petehughesy

Ladders are not banned, but the customers who moan at why I don't use them anymore I tell them they are ;-)

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steve32

I can have i little input in this, because this was my game. The use of ladders is not banned..... BUT everything is risk assessed. Depending on where you are working or who for.

 

ie on a commercial property under an employer who has a duty of care or a sole trader who makes his own risk assessment. When entering a commercial site the employer who has a duty of care has to do several things before you start work, but ill only mention 2 of them as its only 2 that really matter is this convo. Its RAMS risk assessment and method statement, he has to go and look at the job and decide how its going to be done, the obvious way forward is a ladder. But is it the safest way ?? Now he is assessing the risk, can we get four points of contact with the ladder ( basically as mentioned above with painter etc ) purpose built ladders specifically designed for four point contact to the ground and fit for its purpose. Can we use a mobile scaffold and a harness and lanyard, what about a cherry picker ? He has to decide the safest way forward, then issue you with two documents ( rams) to sign, you sign to say you fully understand the risks involved and understand how you are going to go about completing the job. Now you as the employee also has a duty of care and you do your own point to work risk assessment before commencing work.

 

At this point you say hang on a second that ladder is a bit dodgy, why don't we use a water fed pole ??? it would be much safer! He says we ain't got one you will have to use the ladder. Now 9 times out of 10 the ladder is used and everyone goes home safe and well. But 1 time out of 10 he falls off a ladder and breaks his neck and dies, the case goes to court and the employer is hung drawn and quartered. Simply because he didn't assess the risks correctly and use the safest possible method. And the death of this window cleaner would go down as a PREVENTABLE accident. Same goes for a sole trader, who does his own point to work risk assessment, when something happens and it goes to court your a ****** basically because they was a safer way of doing the job and the accident was preventable should you of taken the correct measures.

 

This law is shite really! Its put together to cover their own arses, its like banning a ladder without actually banning the ladder. Everyone can use a ladder, but when **** hits the fan and you have an accident YOU ARE at fault because you didnt adopt a safer way of doing the job.

 

In other words use the ladder at your own risk, we have written this law in such a way that our arses are completely covered and we have a get out of jail free card, you on the other hand are ******.

 

Id like to say that ladders within window cleaning will eventually be banned all together, but i doubt it very much, while the law is worded like it is, they is no need to change it because when it actually matters ( in a court of law ) ladders might as well be banned because they is always a safer way of doing it and that is the WATER FED POLE

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bluemonkey

 

 

 

This law is ***** really! Its put together to cover their own arses, its like banning a ladder without actually banning the ladder. Everyone can use a ladder, but when **** hits the fan and you have an accident YOU ARE at fault because you didnt adopt a safer way of doing the job.

 

In other words use the ladder at your own risk, we have written this law in such a way that our arses are completely covered and we have a get out of jail free card, you on the other hand are ******.

 

Id like to say that ladders within window cleaning will eventually be banned all together, but i doubt it very much, while the law is worded like it is, they is no need to change it because when it actually matters ( in a court of law ) ladders might as well be banned because they is always a safer way of doing it and that is the WATER FED POLE

 

 

exactly

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Guest OoO

I can have i little input in this, because this was my game. The use of ladders is not banned..... BUT everything is risk assessed. Depending on where you are working or who for.

 

ie on a commercial property under an employer who has a duty of care or a sole trader who makes his own risk assessment. When entering a commercial site the employer who has a duty of care has to do several things before you start work, but ill only mention 2 of them as its only 2 that really matter is this convo. Its RAMS risk assessment and method statement, he has to go and look at the job and decide how its going to be done, the obvious way forward is a ladder. But is it the safest way ?? Now he is assessing the risk, can we get four points of contact with the ladder ( basically as mentioned above with painter etc ) purpose built ladders specifically designed for four point contact to the ground and fit for its purpose. Can we use a mobile scaffold and a harness and lanyard, what about a cherry picker ? He has to decide the safest way forward, then issue you with two documents ( rams) to sign, you sign to say you fully understand the risks involved and understand how you are going to go about completing the job. Now you as the employee also has a duty of care and you do your own point to work risk assessment before commencing work.

 

At this point you say hang on a second that ladder is a bit dodgy, why don't we use a water fed pole ??? it would be much safer! He says we ain't got one you will have to use the ladder. Now 9 times out of 10 the ladder is used and everyone goes home safe and well. But 1 time out of 10 he falls off a ladder and breaks his neck and dies, the case goes to court and the employer is hung drawn and quartered. Simply because he didn't assess the risks correctly and use the safest possible method. And the death of this window cleaner would go down as a PREVENTABLE accident. Same goes for a sole trader, who does his own point to work risk assessment, when something happens and it goes to court your a ****** basically because they was a safer way of doing the job and the accident was preventable should you of taken the correct measures.

 

This law is ***** really! Its put together to cover their own arses, its like banning a ladder without actually banning the ladder. Everyone can use a ladder, but when **** hits the fan and you have an accident YOU ARE at fault because you didnt adopt a safer way of doing the job.

 

In other words use the ladder at your own risk, we have written this law in such a way that our arses are completely covered and we have a get out of jail free card, you on the other hand are ******.

 

Id like to say that ladders within window cleaning will eventually be banned all together, but i doubt it very much, while the law is worded like it is, they is no need to change it because when it actually matters ( in a court of law ) ladders might as well be banned because they is always a safer way of doing it and that is the WATER FED POLE

You beat me to it. Was just about to post that :P

 

Thanks. - explains alot.

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HotWash Window Cleaners

Charge twice the price for the traditional method of cleaning see if that helps. Either you will double your earning potential for the house or keep using wfp.

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Smurf

At the bottom of this leaflet I posted

 

Safety in window cleaning using portable ladders

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/misc613.pdf

 

It reads the following

 

This leaflet contains notes on good practice which are not compulsory but which you may find helpful in considering what you need to do.

© Crown copyright This publication may be freely reproduced, except for advertising, endorsement or commercial purposes. First published 09/03. Please acknowledge the source as HSE.

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