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Booster Pump / How to run 12V on 230V


heyoh

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Hey guys,

 

Anyone has any idea how I could use my auto shut-off valve from mains? It's been connected onto a 12V battery, but I'd like to use it on a static system now. Do I just get a 12V adapter like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/390647563352?hlpht=true&ops=true&viphx=1&lpid=95&device=c&adtype=pla&crdt=0&ff3=1&ff11=ICEP3.0.0&ff12=67&ff13=80&ff14=95&ff19=0

just cut the wire and then, well what do I do then?

I would also like to use my shurflo pump as a booster pump but that's 12V too. (Can you run a shurflo pump for hours by the way?)

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I obviously don't know how much current your solenoid valve draws, but I see one on ebay draws 1.2amps. This power supply delivers 2 amps so if yours draws less than 2 amps, then it should work.

 

There must be a info plate on the valve which will tell you this.

 

What you need to do is cut the plug off and strip the wires back a bit. I'm not sure if 12v solenoid valves have a positive and negative feed or if than can be connected up either way. If you have a volt meter I would test which is the positive wire on the power supply and then connect it up as you would have done with using it with a battery. So your power supply replaces the battery.

 

Do connect this up using an RCD adaptor.

 

Your shurflo pump will draw up to 8 amps so your power supply isn't suitable. A Shurflo pump also isn't designed to run for hours. It has no internal cooling fan.

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Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. So the solenoid valve is the easier bit.

 

About the pump, I know it's not a dedicated booster pump, but I have nothing better at the moment, and I read in some older threads that some used it and it worked for them. I just don't have the cash for a proper one, the ones I saw on ebay go around 150 quid. I have this spare one, I thought I could use it, maybe in this cold weather it could run for 3-4 hours?

Is this any good?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBO-1-BOOSTER-PUMP-WZ250-24l-PRESSURE-TANK-electric-water-pump-/181253884348?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item2a3392c9bc

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Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. So the solenoid valve is the easier bit.

 

About the pump, I know it's not a dedicated booster pump, but I have nothing better at the moment, and I read in some older threads that some used it and it worked for them. I just don't have the cash for a proper one, the ones I saw on ebay go around 150 quid. I have this spare one, I thought I could use it, maybe in this cold weather it could run for 3-4 hours?

Is this any good?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBO-1-BOOSTER-PUMP-WZ250-24l-PRESSURE-TANK-electric-water-pump-/181253884348?pt=UK_HomeGarden_Garden_PondsWaterFeatures_UK&hash=item2a3392c9bc

 

I'm afraid I've little experience with booster pumps TBH. We initially started with a RoMan type r/o which was a 3 membrane 225 GPD unit. We were processing water directly into the tank on the trailer we had. Our water pressure was around 50 psi in those days. Those membranes failed within a year and I replaced them with 3 x 150 GPD membranes. With that water pressure and processing water into a 1000 liter IBC tank we had enough water to keep 2 of us supplied with water when son joined the business with his own van. We started with 2 full van tanks at the beginning of the week and a full IBC tank by Monday evening.

 

In those days our water was around 255 ppm and the r/o reduced that water to around 4 ppm before di.

 

With that experience I would never bother with a booster pump. Yes, water processing is slower, but once you fill that IBC tank and you have it on a controlled filling cycle, you should always have enough water even with the r/o processing slower in winter.

 

Unfortunately the 450GPD r/o couldn't keep up with 3 of us, so we replaced it with a 4040. Using an HF5 membrane we now have plenty of water even with a lower water pressure of 40psi. Yes, some process water twice as fast using a booster pump, but we are managing fine without one.

 

You will find that having an IBC static system is so much better than the way you were doing it before. Try running your system without a booster to start with and see how you go. Maybe you don't need to bother with one.

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The main reason why i was thinking about a booster pump was to reduce the waste output, basically using less water, as i'm on a meter. The other thing is my tds from tap is around 320, after ro its .45 with brand new membranes and prefilter. Something is definitely wrong with the housing it's and old merlin ~4 years old i think. But i don't have cash for a new ro, so im stuck with .45 which makes my resin last just a couple of weeks. I guess im just trying to make the best out of the situation with this booster bussiness.

I am planning on buying an IBC, at the moment im using water butts, so i can only fill 300L a time which is a pain, but hey spring is around the corner, isn't it :) no it's not... just trying to stay positive

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A Merlin was designed as an under kitchen sink water purifier. As such it was classed as an on demand r/o. When you switched on the kitchen tap it started to operate and when you switched off the tap, it switched off.

 

My friend has his Merlin connected to his IBC tank with a stop c ock. When the IBC tank is full the valve closes and his Merlin switches off. He doesn't need a solenoid valve. It operates on exactly the same principle as the toilet cistern does.

 

I'm sorry, but Merlins are rubbish with regard to waste water and efficiency.

 

I know of 2 cleaners (1 of them is my friend above) who have/had them. The first is on his second as frost killed his first one. His efficiency is around 90% which is the same as his first r/o.

So his r/o at 90% efficiency brings his tap water down from 115 to 12. He relies on resin to reduce it to zero. He is on his second bag of resin whilst I haven't replaced my resin in my 11 litre Di vessel yet.

 

He has a waste to pure ratio of 5 to 1. He isn't on a water meter.

 

The other cleaner I know sold his Merlin as he bought a house with a water meter already fitted. He now has a 4040 with a similar waste to pure ratio as I'm using - 55% waste to 45% pure.

Buying a booster pump won't reduce your water costs IMO as your r/o will be throwing 5000 litres down the drain to give you 1000 litres of pure - it may only just do it quicker.

 

Sorry to say this, but you can't afford not to replace your r/o with something more efficient. Even if you set up a 4040 with a 3 to 1 ratio waste to pure, you are saving 2000 litres for every 1000 litres of pure. Now find out what each cm of water costs.

 

I'm sure someone we be able to work out a cost of water per 1000 of pure for you on a meter with 5000 liters of waste. As I'm not on as meter, I can't help you with this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for the advice Spruce, since the last posts I bought an IBC tank as you said, it is a lot easier actually, I just leave the filling running, i have enough water everyday.

My problem is still the same, that is a huge water bill is coming, it is on its way i can feel it. I can fill about 200-300 in ~8hrs.

I've been looking at booster pumps, could anyone confirm that i would be saving water by using one of them?

In theory it would make my old ro unit more efficient, but until I know for sure it definitely would, i don't want to spend a 100 quid.

 

Am I right that all reverse osmosis system require around 60-80psi for best performance? So if I upgraded to a 4040 system, my 30 psi still wouldn't make a big difference, would it?

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What I would be inclined to do is to test it. You will have to manually control and time it. I would first of all take measurements of the amount of water I was using and compare it with the amount of water I was purifying.

 

Take 2 similar size empty wheelie bins, one to take your waste water and the other your pure water. Run the r/o and time how long it takes to fill the 1st wheelie bin with waste water. (You may decide to half fill it if it takes too long.). You should also be able to estimate what your pure to waste water ratio is as well. Mark (scratch) the relevant levelson the inside of the wheelie bin. Connect your Shurflo pump up with your controller and/or pressure switch and repeat the experiment. When the waste water reaches the mark switch every thing off.

 

You should then see how much quicker the water was produced from the timed results and you will see if a higher pressure will give you more pure.

 

I have never done this before, but my gut feeling is that the pure to waste ratio will be very much the same, the only difference being that the r/o processed the water quicker.

 

I personally would be interested in how this experiment turned out.

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I really want to do this experiment now, but we are back to square one then, what adapter should I get for my 12V shurflo?

 

On the label it says:

Amps: 8 max

Use 10 Amp time delay fuse

Could you give me links as to what bits to buy so I can hook it up to mains safely?

I am so interested in the results now! Fact is as I was searching on the forum I found at least one post which said someone used it with great satisfaction.

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This won't do as it only provides a max current of 5 amps. If your pump draws 8 amps then the power supply won't provide enough current.

 

Try the pump on a car battery to see if a booster pump will help you.

 

If this works, then you need a proper 230v set up. A Shurflo pump isn't designed to run continiously so will not be a suitable pump. Vyair do small booster pumps for r/o's but they use 24v pumps as they use less amps. They aren't continous running pumps either - they have to be rested for 10 - 15 minutes every 5 - 6 hours.

 

If using a booster pump doesn't reduce your waste, then its pointless spending any more money on fitting one. Yes, using a booster pump will process water quicker but I think the ratio of waste to pure will remain the same, especially if you are using a preset restrictor.

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ok i've got my plan:

as i don't have a spare battery, i will use the pump in the van which I use for work, even better that it has a controller so i can change flow rate (and pressure? im still confused about the connection between the two)

I will let you know about the results.

I need to change my prefilter at the moment, production really slowed down due to this, so I will wait until I get the replacement filter.

 

How often do you have to change your prefilter in your 4040 system, if i may ask? This merlin one is rated 19.000 litres, so basically i should change it after roughly 3000-4000L of 'pure' produced.

 

### I checked the official figure on the Gardiner website, it says 350.000L wow, now i understand the difference between professional and under the sink systems... I will definitely try to save up money for a hf4 kit with one membrane.

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ok i've got my plan:

as i don't have a spare battery, i will use the pump in the van which I use for work, even better that it has a controller so i can change flow rate (and pressure? im still confused about the connection between the two)

I will let you know about the results.

I need to change my prefilter at the moment, production really slowed down due to this, so I will wait until I get the replacement filter.

 

How often do you have to change your prefilter in your 4040 system, if i may ask? This merlin one is rated 19.000 litres, so basically i should change it after roughly 3000-4000L of 'pure' produced.

 

I would think this would be the way I would do it by using the stuff in your van. If your are using a 'proper' controller then you may have to increase the cutoff pressure.

 

Flow rate and pressure are related in application but are two totally different things.

Water flow refers to the amount of water coming out of a hose, tap or pipe in a certain amount of time. Water pressure refers to the amount of force that is put on the water to make it move from one place to another. So if you increase the pressure or force on the water, you will increase the flow rate of the water coming out of the tap/hose. You then reduce the flow by slowing your pump down but you retain the pressure level setting in the background.

 

When to change filters?

 

I have 2 x 20" prefilters on my 4040. We have a high sediment in our water so the first sediment filter gets replaced when I can see its starting to get dirty. I have clear bowls so I can see this at a glance. I also have a pressure gauge on the water inlet after the solenoid switch and a pressure gauge on the outlet of the carbon block filter before it goes to r/o. There is always a small pressure drop between the inlet and outlet gauges even when the filters are new. When that starts to become noticeably greater then its time to change the sediment filter. Sometimes that sediment filter can go 2 months, sometimes it lasts on a couple of weeks. It depends on what the water 'quality' is.

 

The chlorine block filter should be replaced as per manufacturers instructions. I use long life chlorine block filters. The current one I have in my r/o is Gardiner's Fiberdyne. A 20" CFB Plus - 20 has a filter life of 75700 litres. The 10" one is about half that figure if I remember correctly. It has long been an issue with me is that we don't change our C/B filters regularily enough. I think the rule of thumb some apply is every 6 months - we changed our 450GPD filters every 3 months and we got 7 years from the last membranes.

 

I am testing a water meter since fitting the last prefilter set. With three of us using water I honestly had no idea of how much water was being used a month. The c/b filter figures also includes the water going to waste, so this quickly adds up. (If you have a ratio of 3 waste to 1 pure, then the c/b filter has processed 4 litres to get 1 pure.

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Thank you for imparting your wisdom and experiences, installing pressure gauges before and after the prefilter is a great idea, I would never have come up with myself.

So you don't use the EZ-pure prefilter/sediment filter these kits come with. I found MarkM's youtube channel, and I can see he uses the same setup - sediment -> carbon -> hf4 membrane. He also uses a booster pump, which I can't find anywhere on the internet.

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Thank you for imparting your wisdom and experiences, installing pressure gauges before and after the prefilter is a great idea, I would never have come up with myself.

So you don't use the EZ-pure prefilter/sediment filter these kits come with. I found MarkM's youtube channel, and I can see he uses the same setup - sediment -> carbon -> hf4 membrane. He also uses a booster pump, which I can't find anywhere on the internet.

 

I haven't got the Gardiner EZ r/o system. I gave their system due consideration. I reasoned that a 4021 produces less water than I wanted whereas 2 x 4021's would produce what I wanted. The Gardiner system is much more compact but as the price of 4021 membranes is similar to 4040 membranes, membrane replacement would cost a lot more in having to replace 2 rather than 1 when the time came. For a single or twin user, the EZ 4021 system with 1 membrane is more than sufficient if processing water into an IBC tank with automatic controls (switch off when full and switch on when water is drawn off.) In fact, if we had 2 IBC tanks linked together, then a 4021 would have been more than sufficient, even with 3 of us. But I don't have room for a second IBC tank.

 

Whilst I knew my 450GPD membranes had lasted well, venturing into this world of fast water processing was like stepping into the unknown and much more costly.

 

I also have ruled out a Gardiner EZ combined sediment and c/b. Even although the c/b filter gives superb chlorine removal performance, our water supply quality (sediment) is the reason why I have stayed with the conventional 20" prefilters.

 

At low water pressure, the HF5 is definitely the way to go without the necessity of a booster pump in my experience with our water conditions.

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As I'm reading your post, I realize there is so much things I need to clear up in my head. I thought there was only 4040 with hf5. Didn't realize that on Gardiner website it's all 4021. I see now. So basically 4021 can produce around 1000GPD whereas 4040 does 2500GPD.

4021 it is then. The cheapest I could find for this setup is around 400 pounds which isn't a lot - 300 for the membrane and housing, and 100 for the prefilters. Atm I'm still going to use my old merlin though, i truly hate it, although i might find that with boosting the pressure it isnt that bad.

Sometimes I feel like I should just use twin-DIs and save all the hassle, but it would work out more expensive.. It would be so easy though.

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As I'm reading your post, I realize there is so much things I need to clear up in my head. I thought there was only 4040 with hf5. Didn't realize that on Gardiner website it's all 4021. I see now. So basically 4021 can produce around 1000GPD whereas 4040 does 2500GPD.

4021 it is then. The cheapest I could find for this setup is around 400 pounds which isn't a lot - 300 for the membrane and housing, and 100 for the prefilters. Atm I'm still going to use my old merlin though, i truly hate it, although i might find that with boosting the pressure it isnt that bad.

Sometimes I feel like I should just use twin-DIs and save all the hassle, but it would work out more expensive.. It would be so easy though.

 

 

Merlins are real water wasters so if you are on a meter, its going to be costly.

 

The first filter housing on a Merlin is the carbon block and the remaining two housings are membranes. We actually got my mate to fit a stand alone sediment filter as he was having problems with the chlorine filter blocking up. Works much better for him.

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