Facelift hot water system

[scottish cleaning service]

Why not save up and get a Webasto heater, well worth the money.

 

[ched999uk]

Why not save up and get a Webasto heater, well worth the money.

Simple at the moment the numbers just don't stack up. The payback period would be way beyond my retirement! £100 for electric heating is an easier cost to justify.
PS I wouldn't need to save up.

 

[kevinc250]

The thermo pro 90 is the best Wabasto heater for our application that’s what I have in my vans. Be careful with the Chinese water and air heaters we have been out to several camper van fires caused by using theses things the wiring is very poor and thin and they aren’t kite marked so it they do burn out a vehicle you might have insurance issues .

but saying that i've had my cheap chinese air heater for maybe four years now, i am a members of the many air heater groups on facebook but have yet to see anyone over all these four years post anything about vans setting on fire because of these heaters or any other matter concerning a fire caused by these heaters sometimes, you have to consider the person that fitted the said item and their thinking and diy skills before you blame the product.

 

[ched999uk]

Didn't squeaky clean dave have something very similar on his channel that you just drop into the tank?
It would work like you say you would need a 2K version and need a way of circulating the water using the pump and without drilling holes in the tank would be the adavantage

I think Squeaky Clean Daves was a Chinese heater that didn't have any safety certification, that just dropped into the tank.
This external Willis immersion heater holder would be mounted outside the tank. So it could easily use an adapter to connect reel to the input of the Willis unit then output back to the tank. It just needs a pressure sensor to check there is water in there connected to a relay to cut immersion heater power if there is no flow. In theory it should work but I have not tested one yet

 

[Pjj]

but saying that i've had my cheap chinese air heater for maybe four years now, i am a members of the many air heater groups on facebook but have yet to see anyone over all these four years post anything about vans setting on fire because of these heaters or any other matter concerning a fire caused by these heaters sometimes, you have to consider the person that fitted the said item and their thinking and diy skills before you blame the product.

Hi Kevin
We have had 4 camper vans over several years that have caught fire over the years using them , trading standard got involved as one of the owners tried to claim off the importers for faulty goods trading standards said that if the product didn’t have a kite mark then it shouldn’t be used as it’s not considered safe , they had one tested and it failed on the wiring they said it wasn’t heavy enough for the current draw , not sure what happened with the owners legal action , but all theses fires were proven to be linked to the heaters , no idea if they have altered the design now ? But doubt any Chinese manufacturer will listen to uk trading standards , I don’t know but suspect if we have had this many fires with them there must be more over the uk

 

[kevinc250]

Hi Kevin
We have had 4 camper vans over several years that have caught fire over the years using them , trading standard got involved as one of the owners tried to claim off the importers for faulty goods trading standards said that if the product didn’t have a kite mark then it shouldn’t be used as it’s not considered safe , they had one tested and it failed on the wiring they said it wasn’t heavy enough for the current draw , not sure what happened with the owners legal action , but all theses fires were proven to be linked to the heaters , no idea if they have altered the design now ? But doubt any Chinese manufacturer will listen to uk trading standards , I don’t know but suspect if we have had this many fires with them there must be more over the uk

i understand paul, but a couple of points, the kite mark applies only to business's trading within themselves in the uk, not europe that's the ce mark but we are not in europe anymore thankfully the biggest markets for the chinese are within their country and russia and canada/north america
many many thousands of these "cheap chinese heaters" are bought every year from people in the uk and worldwide to heat outside office spaces or workshops and garages notwithstanding the likes of the window cleaners,the mobile mechanics, the mobile car valeters, carpet cleaners infact, anyone who needs to ensure that their equipment is kept from freezing overnight slots into this category.
i do understand the point about the thin wires, that being said i am currently re-wiring or making a new loom up for a 1960 velocette motor cycle the original wires are like ropes compared to the newer modern day wires which in comparison is so thin i do have difficulty in trusting them but, i am not the expert here but i trust the company who have supplied me the wires knowing full well the intended use,
when you say several years, lets take that as say, three years and, you've had four van fires over that time in your county with the heaters thats something like around 1.3 fires per year, it pails into signifience with the e cig charger fires or the tumble dryers, or the gas fires portable or not.are these heaters safe? probably more safer than the humble tumble dryer.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

i understand paul, but a couple of points, the kite mark applies only to business's trading within themselves in the uk, not europe that's the ce mark but we are not in europe anymore thankfully the biggest markets for the chinese are within their country and russia and canada/north america
many many thousands of these "cheap chinese heaters" are bought every year from people in the uk and worldwide to heat outside office spaces or workshops and garages notwithstanding the likes of the window cleaners,the mobile mechanics, the mobile car valeters, carpet cleaners infact, anyone who needs to ensure that their equipment is kept from freezing overnight slots into this category.
i do understand the point about the thin wires, that being said i am currently re-wiring or making a new loom up for a 1960 velocette motor cycle the original wires are like ropes compared to the newer modern day wires which in comparison is so thin i do have difficulty in trusting them but, i am not the expert here but i trust the company who have supplied me the wires knowing full well the intended use,
when you say several years, lets take that as say, three years and, you've had four van fires over that time in your county with the heaters thats something like around 1.3 fires per year, it pails into comparison with the e cig charger fires or the tumble dryers, or the gas fires portable or not.are these heaters safe? probably more safer than the humble tumble dryer.

The tumble dryer fires arrive because of the build up of fluff. Not many folk take the time to remove it.

 

[kevinc250]

for once scottish i do agree with you, it is the fluff etc that causes the heat build up, i should have maybe worded that portion of the post better or have chosen a better example but, as both you and paul are hardened hot water users any other method is just not thinkable other than the froststat option,

 

[ched999uk]

it is the fluff etc that causes the heat build up, i should have maybe worded that portion of the post better or have chosen a better example

A lot of the tumble driers that caught fire were not due to customers not clearing fluff away. There was a major design fault that allowed the fluff to bypass the 'fluff catcher'. So no matter how often you cleaned the fluff out it was accumulating unseen in a non accessible place.

That said poorly made products are regularly sold, with and without CE, kite or other 'quality standards' and have caused many fires, we should all be vigilant.

 

[Pjj]

i understand paul, but a couple of points, the kite mark applies only to business's trading within themselves in the uk, not europe that's the ce mark but we are not in europe anymore thankfully the biggest markets for the chinese are within their country and russia and canada/north america
many many thousands of these "cheap chinese heaters" are bought every year from people in the uk and worldwide to heat outside office spaces or workshops and garages notwithstanding the likes of the window cleaners,the mobile mechanics, the mobile car valeters, carpet cleaners infact, anyone who needs to ensure that their equipment is kept from freezing overnight slots into this category.
i do understand the point about the thin wires, that being said i am currently re-wiring or making a new loom up for a 1960 velocette motor cycle the original wires are like ropes compared to the newer modern day wires which in comparison is so thin i do have difficulty in trusting them but, i am not the expert here but i trust the company who have supplied me the wires knowing full well the intended use,
when you say several years, lets take that as say, three years and, you've had four van fires over that time in your county with the heaters thats something like around 1.3 fires per year, it pails into signifience with the e cig charger fires or the tumble dryers, or the gas fires portable or not.are these heaters safe? probably more safer than the humble tumble dryer.

Yes I accept the numbers are low at 4 but it still shows there is a problem with them we have never gone out to a Wabasto or eiberspatcher on fire and there are many times more of them in the uk than theses Chinese things . My understanding from trading standards is that the kite mark and ce approval shows stuff is safe ,been tested and meets eu standards , most of the problems that happen with cheap products originate from china , they also do make stuff out there that is built to our standards and some well know brands have stuff made in china but a lot of electrical stuff from there is very unsafe and so many things have been taken off the shelves as they have been proven to be unsafe , I think something like that that sells for £200 is never going to be as well made or reliable as the well known brands , I certainly wouldn’t want to put one in any vehicle I owned I would be afraid it would catch fire and destroy the whole vehicle , one of the guys at our fire station has just converted an old Renault master into a camper van and he has a Chinese's heater he said he’s happy with it for what it cost but admits it’s no Wabasto , we keep ribbing him about coming out to it with the fire truck when it catches fire ????. Ime no electrician but a friend of mine who is looked at one and he the wiring isn’t suitable for the current draw and the heat that it’s exposed to he wouldn’t fit them as wouldn’t want to be held responsible if it caught fire , I must admit the wiring looks more suited to a child’s electric toy car than a heater. They are very cheap but again the old adage buy cheap buy twice always comes to mind , each to there own but I would rather have a proven quality product , look at that Wabasto that I bought from you and compare that to the Chinese heater no comparison. Buy the way it’s still running sweet as a nut and it’s been running practically every working day since we had it off you .

i understand paul, but a couple of points, the kite mark applies only to business's trading within themselves in the uk, not europe that's the ce mark but we are not in europe anymore thankfully the biggest markets for the chinese are within their country and russia and canada/north america
many many thousands of these "cheap chinese heaters" are bought every year from people in the uk and worldwide to heat outside office spaces or workshops and garages notwithstanding the likes of the window cleaners,the mobile mechanics, the mobile car valeters, carpet cleaners infact, anyone who needs to ensure that their equipment is kept from freezing overnight slots into this category.
i do understand the point about the thin wires, that being said i am currently re-wiring or making a new loom up for a 1960 velocette motor cycle the original wires are like ropes compared to the newer modern day wires which in comparison is so thin i do have difficulty in trusting them but, i am not the expert here but i trust the company who have supplied me the wires knowing full well the intended use,
when you say several years, lets take that as say, three years and, you've had four van fires over that time in your county with the heaters thats something like around 1.3 fires per year, it pails into signifience with the e cig charger fires or the tumble dryers, or the gas fires portable or not.are these heaters safe? probably more safer than the humble tumble dryer.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

The way the war is going I believe our days of cheap stuff from China will slowly die out. Seems to be going back to cold war but with China the main player. Even talking about banning tock tick or tick tock or something like that. ?

 

[Iron Giant]

A lot of the tumble driers that caught fire were not due to customers not clearing fluff away. There was a major design fault that allowed the fluff to bypass the 'fluff catcher'. So no matter how often you cleaned the fluff out it was accumulating unseen in a non accessible place.

Was this with condensing driers? ours is well over 10 years old so maybe a tad different to the more modern ones but we have a condensing unit which gets clogged up and has to be cleaned by putting it in the bath and giving it a good rinse out with a shower attachment or using the spray gun on the garden hose also I have to lay down on the floor a scrape the build-up off the area with my fingers behind were the condenser unit sits when inside the dryer if it was left to my wife neither the fluff catcher nor the condensing unit would ever be cleaned but I do periodically based on how often it gets used.

I accept in the fire cases it was a design fault, but how often do people really do what they should and maintain appliances as per the manufactures instructions, my wife looks at me like I'm daft when I go around our house doing certain jobs which she has no clue would need doing.

 

[spruce]

Was this with condensing driers? ours is well over 10 years old so maybe a tad different to the more modern ones but we have a condensing unit which gets clogged up and has to be cleaned by putting it in the bath and giving it a good rinse out with a shower attachment or using the spray gun on the garden hose also I have to lay down on the floor a scrape the build-up off the area with my fingers behind were the condenser unit sits when inside the dryer if it was left to my wife neither the fluff catcher nor the condensing unit would ever be cleaned but I do periodically based on how often it gets used.

I accept in the fire cases it was a design fault, but how often do people really do what they should and maintain appliances as per the manufactures instructions, my wife looks at me like I'm daft when I go around our house doing certain jobs which she has no clue would need doing.

It's part of maintenance. The more appliances we have the more time we need to spend maintaining them.

Unfortunately, most people no longer bother with maintenance. Attend to it when it stops working which usually means buying a new one.

 

[Part Timer]

It's part of maintenance. The more appliances we have the more time we need to spend maintaining them.

Unfortunately, most people no longer bother with maintenance. Attend to it when it stops working which usually means buying a new one.

The problem is unless you have the knowledge and skill to repair and maintain them yourself it's cheaper, in many cases, to buy a new one.

 

[spruce]

The problem is unless you have the knowledge and skill to repair and maintain them yourself it's cheaper, in many cases, to buy a new one.

True, but we are talking basic stuff here.

We bought 2 Bosch condensing driers, one for my son and the other for my daughter. My daughter's is still working fine, as she cleans the lint filter every time she uses the tumble drier. My son and his wife don't bother to clean theirs like they should. I had to strip it down once to clean the whole system out to get it working again.
They have gone through 2 more tumble driers since, one new and the other nearly new. Same problem of not cleaning the filter out. They have been told, so it's not my problem any longer.

 

[scottish cleaning service]

True, but we are talking basic stuff here.

We bought 2 Bosch condensing driers, one for my son and the other for my daughter. My daughter's is still working fine, as she cleans the lint filter every time she uses the tumble drier. My son and his wife don't bother to clean theirs like they should. I had to strip it down once to clean the whole system out to get it working again.
They have gone through 2 more tumble driers since, one new and the other nearly new. Same problem of not cleaning the filter out. They have been told, so it's not my problem any longer.

No pain no gain, springs to mind.

 

[Iron Giant]

The problem is unless you have the knowledge and skill to repair and maintain them yourself it's cheaper, in many cases, to buy a new one.

I don't believe that's always the case, we have two local repair firms near us that do the basic repairs on appliances oven washing machine etc, the odd repairs we have had on older appliances have always been less than £70 with parts and labour

Some like @spruce says will just go off and buy a new one, these small family run firms know there stuff and they will usually know what's wrong before they come out and if the repair cost won't be financially viable they tell us, my mam used the same firm when I was a kid over 30 years ago.

 

[ched999uk]

I don't believe that's always the case, we have two local repair firms near us that do the basic repairs on appliances oven washing machine etc, the odd repairs we have had on older appliances have always been less than £70 with parts and labour

Some like @spruce says will just go off and buy a new one, these small family run firms know there stuff and they will usually know what's wrong before they come out and if the repair cost won't be financially viable they tell us, my mam used the same firm when I was a kid over 30 years ago.

That is good if you can find such a company. Older stuff is much easier to fix, i.e. upto about 5 years ago most fridges and freezers had a very simple thermostat unless they where self defrosting. These thermostats could be replaced for about £15. Unfortunately as companies have been push into ever more efficient appliances they have had to make them more and more complex - so they have very specialised parts and even though the EU mandated parts should be available they 'forgot' to put any controls on prices!
It's a bit like when my van's charging system started playing up. As it's 'smart' unless you have the correct software system you can't find out if it's alternator or control system at fault. Then the main dealer says 3 weeks before they can even look at it!
That went on a bit, sorry ?

 

[Part Timer]

I don't believe that's always the case, we have two local repair firms near us that do the basic repairs on appliances oven washing machine etc, the odd repairs we have had on older appliances have always been less than £70 with parts and labour

Some like @spruce says will just go off and buy a new one, these small family run firms know there stuff and they will usually know what's wrong before they come out and if the repair cost won't be financially viable they tell us, my mam used the same firm when I was a kid over 30 years ago.

Have you priced up a new pump for a washing machine or tried to get your integrated fridge freezer repaired. The extended insurance, which I doubt very many take out, is usually more than half the price of a new appliance. That is because they're so costly to repair. My philosophy has always been, when they start to cost you money, and down time, it's time to get rid.
It's cheaper nowadays to buy extra clothes then it is to operate a tumble dryer so I doubt half the people that have them now will replace them when their current one is knackered.

 

[JEM]

Our Electrolux washing machine died after 7yrs the bearing went as it made a right racket when it went and you could feel the play in the drum I wanted to repair it, nope the bearing was incorporated into the drum so you had to buy a whole new drum it was only £50 more to buy a new washing machine! so apart from the bearing, it was a good machine but it had to go to the recycling center

 

[JEM]

I think Squeaky Clean Daves was a Chinese heater that didn't have any safety certification, that just dropped into the tank.
This external Willis immersion heater holder would be mounted outside the tank. So it could easily use an adapter to connect reel to the input of the Willis unit then output back to the tank. It just needs a pressure sensor to check there is water in there connected to a relay to cut immersion heater power if there is no flow. In theory it should work but I have not tested one yet

Ahh I see, I miss understood how that one works so the water passes through the element, so you could have the controller set on low so the water passes slowly wonder how long it would take to heat a 400ltr tank though