Faulty Thermopure System (Ionic System)

[Phill DFR]

Hi, i am in need of some assistance please ....

Here goes ....

A year ago i purchased, brand new, a 800lt Thermopure delivery system from Ionic Systems, Swindon to the total of £12,624 and a bit of shrapnel, i fancied an upgrade and thought that having hot water may benefit my business, i've been in the game for 20 years or so.

Since day 1 of having this system it has failed to produce hot water when the van engine is turned off, the system simply begins its start up process then shortly after the voltage drops, a warning light comes on and thats the end of that, no hot water!  i have been back and forth to Ionics on 3 separate occasions and they have failed on all accounts to rectify the problem, ive even asked for a full refund and the system be removed which is causing us to now be at logger heads!  i am heading to their Swindon depot yet again for them to have another go at fixing it?

Has anyone out there experienced any ongoing issues with the Thermopure system?

Mine has been fitted into a new 18 plate Ford Transit which i thought would compliment my business, but its having the opposite effect.

I will add that if i have the van engine running all the time then the voltage increases and i actually get hot water to work with but i cant afford to keep the van running especially if im working away from it around the back of a premises.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as i have had enough of Ionics and their 'bullshit' middle management babble.

Thanks in advance

Phill

 

[Razersharp]

Hi, It points towards the batteries not holding charge possibly caused by not getting a regular charge, running the engine indicates that it has some form of charging system is fitted but is it suitable? The Webasto unit they use is power hungry on start up so are the batteries a suitable size? Get them to put new batteries on and assure you that it has an intelligent form of battery charging.

 

[doug atkinson]

I have a funny feeling it’s to do with the fuel system in the Ford. Give Oliver at Grippa a ring as they found a problem with the type of vans fuel systems cutting off when the engine stopped.

 

[Pjj]

I have had several over the years , if the boiler stops working it could be the battery voltage is too low ionics have a habit of not putting batteries on there systems with a  highenough amp hour I have 2x 180 amp batteries on mine and never have a problem . 

Point 2 it could be a fuel starvation as they might have connected the fuel line in the wrong pipe and this will also cause it not to run I think this maybe your problem I think @dazmond had this issue with his Grippatank one hopefully he will see this and be able to comment , hope you get it sorted out 

 

[Part Timer]

It started to happen to mine, 9kw Pure Freedom, after a few years due to the batteries. Just had 2 new batteries in and don't get the problem. 

Is your fuel feed directly out of van tank or from a Jerry Can? I would also start putting in writing that you're seriously out of pocket and don't believe that the system is fit for purpose.  

 

[Phill DFR]

Hi Part Timer,

thanks for your responce, I believe the system draws off my vehicle fuel tank as it’s a brand new system & van!

ive had 2 new batteries fitted by Ionics and they’ve tried fixing it 4 times!!

i have a years worth of emails and messages from them so if all this fails I am hopefully building a case against them for faulty goods unfit for purpose.

 

[Part Timer]

I have been told that it is now illegal to tap directly into the vans fuel system, some EU Law, something to do with safety, I think @sprucedug it out. 

I'm about to transfer my hot water system to a new Dispatch and Pure Freedom won't do it, I will have to carry a Jerry Can around. 

A lot of people make the mistake of just communicating by phone, always best when it's a fault to do it by emails or even text so you have a paper trail

 

[Phill DFR]

Hi Part Timer,

thanks for your responce, I believe the system draws off my vehicle fuel tank as it’s a brand new system & van!

ive had 2 new batteries fitted by Ionics and they’ve tried fixing it 4 times!!

i have a years worth of emails and messages from them so if all this fails I am hopefully building a case against them for faulty goods unfit for purpose.

With all this being said I can only assume Ionics have tapped into the van fuel system as I only fill the van with diesel via the normal fill up point?

 

[Davy G]

I personally would be leaving the responsibility for the problem entirely in the hands of the company who built, supplied and fitted it. They were the ones you exchanged contracts with, in the form of your money for their professional quality goods and fitting, setting up services. What I think gives you a very strong case is: you provided a new commercial vehicle which should be well up to the task you purchased it for (if it wasn't they should have told you). The equipment was built, supplied and fitted by the one, professional company at their premises, so I can't see how they can find a way to pass you from pillar to post blaming other people, they may do if you don't leave the problem entirely with them. If you get other people involved, or try to fix it yourself you may invalidate your warranty. As I see it the problem is entirely their responsibility and I would make sure that you make that perfectly clear to them. I would also at this stage be creating a paper record of all events and problems from first fitting, who you spoke with, what was said, and when, what work time you've lost, what fuel and time you've wasted travelling to get it fixed. I would speak to them politely but firmly. I'll share with you a quote I read years ago. "if you're argument is weak shout loudly. If your argument is strong talk quietly...but carry a big stick" Your big stick on this occasion being ; if they don't get it sorted you'll be left with no alternative but to contact Trading Standards. 

Good luck and please keep us informed. 

 

[Phill DFR]

Hi Dave,

thanks for the reply.

i have kept every email and text message send and received thus creating a paper trail, I have been firm as a firm thing when speaking with them but I feel they are still treating me unfairly.

I've been onto TS as well as speaking to a solicitor, Trading Standards said I would have to seek legal advise? A solicitor said it would be an expensive undertaking at £250 per hour + VAT and there would be a lot of letters sent to and from!

The firm

ate having another repair attempt tomorrow so this will be number 4 out of 6 ( they failed to turn up on 2 other occasions)

 

[Davy G]

As usual everything is against the decent hard working man. Just chatting with my wife. She said it might be worth the expense of a solicitors letter to show them you mean business. I don't know. I think you have no alternative but to keep up the pressure even without the expense of going the legal route. 

Very best best of luck. We're all rooting for you, I'm sure. 

 

[Pjj]

Seeing theses further reply’s ,it has to be a fuel issue I’ll put money on that , probably connected into the wrong fuel line !!! 

 

[Part Timer]

Seeing theses further reply’s ,it has to be a fuel issue I’ll put money on that , probably connected into the wrong fuel line !!! 

They should tap straight into tank and heater pump should draw it. It runs when van running so can't see how it's fuel, got to be power related, says a bloke that panics over wiring a plug ?

.

 

[kevinc250]

its not a faulty stystem mate, its the user that can't quite get the hang of it

 

[Pjj]

They should tap straight into tank and heater pump should draw it. It runs when van running so can't see how it's fuel, got to be power related, says a bloke that panics over wiring a plug ?

.

Not sure which way round it works but if you connect into the return to tank fuel line there is no fuel in it when the engine is switched off and there is a non return valve on the end of the line so it cannot draw fuel , but it will draw fuel when the engin is running as fuel is returning g to tank . 

 

[Lennie]

I have a couple of transit customs with webasto hot water systems fitted.

The one was professionally fitted with the fuel tapped into the vans fuel tank. The van doesn’t need to be running to produce hot water. This vehicle also has a split charger fitted, this I found was a waste of time as it wasn’t charging the batteries sufficiently and before long it ruined the batteries. I now charge overnight and all is good. 

The other van system draws fuel from 3 x 10ltr clear fuel approved containers. I now prefer this method as the van tank doesn’t need to be full and I can monitor and see and cost how much fuel I am using to heat water. The batteries in this van are stand alone and get charged overnight with no problems. 

If if they don’t sort it for you this time, try and locate the fuel filter (if it has one, should have) it may be under the van. Connect a new short fuel pipe from the filter to a container of fuel and see if that produces hot water. This should tell you if it is a problem with the vans fuel system. 

With the voltage issue, I found that my one system still produced hot water with the voltage as low as 10.5 volts. 

For the the cost of a solicitor you could probably get it sorted independently, shouldn’t have to but may be easier. Hopefully ionics will lose out in the long run from bad word of mouth. 

Good on luck getting it sorted. 

 

[Part Timer]

Mine is tapped directly into van fuel tank. I wonder if to bypass EU rules they are using fuel lines. 

 

[Pjj]

I stand to be corrected but motor homes still tee into fuel lines or the tank it’s on all sprinters have extra connections built into the fuel tanks exactly for this reason , I think the problem is when teeing into the fuel lines that the pressure is so high it can blow the fuel line off the tee or affect the engine management system as it detects a drop in fuel pressure 

 

[Phill DFR]

its not a faulty stystem mate, its the user that can't quite get the hang of it

Yeah must be ...

And it’s spelt system not stystem!

Thanks for your help.

 

[doug atkinson]

On your system their should be a small red light. This will give off flashes when their is a problem in a sequence code which will tell what the error is.

When going in make sure they connect it to the software on the laptop. When it kicks in and stops the software program should diagnose the problem.

The heater when kicking in goes through a program checking air intake, fuel etc.. If it detects something wrong it shuts down.

The program should pick up on this.

 

[dazmond]

Hi, i am in need of some assistance please ....

Here goes ....

A year ago i purchased, brand new, a 800lt Thermopure delivery system from Ionic Systems, Swindon to the total of £12,624 and a bit of shrapnel, i fancied an upgrade and thought that having hot water may benefit my business, i've been in the game for 20 years or so.

Since day 1 of having this system it has failed to produce hot water when the van engine is turned off, the system simply begins its start up process then shortly after the voltage drops, a warning light comes on and thats the end of that, no hot water!  i have been back and forth to Ionics on 3 separate occasions and they have failed on all accounts to rectify the problem, ive even asked for a full refund and the system be removed which is causing us to now be at logger heads!  i am heading to their Swindon depot yet again for them to have another go at fixing it?

Has anyone out there experienced any ongoing issues with the Thermopure system?

Mine has been fitted into a new 18 plate Ford Transit which i thought would compliment my business, but its having the opposite effect.

I will add that if i have the van engine running all the time then the voltage increases and i actually get hot water to work with but i cant afford to keep the van running especially if im working away from it around the back of a premises.

Any help would be greatly appreciated as i have had enough of Ionics and their 'bullshit' middle management babble.

Thanks in advance

Phill

i had the same problem with a hot water system fitted by grippatank,the system would stop working with the engine off,they fixed it within 2 days of fitting(driving over 300 miles with a courtesy van so i could keep working).....great customer service....

it was a fuel issue.......they basically had to tap into the fuel sender on top of the diesel tank rather than the return to tank fuel line......that solved the problem......?