The Messer Antenna

[Dino]

Rocked up to a semi and quoted the lady who requested the quote on facebook, gave me the story of the old cleaner was not going to get paid as they had not cleaned her windows properly.  I said to mrs when I got home,  that woman ain't gonna pay me and will mess me about.  So, being hungry for new work I went and did it anyway.  Day after, text "don't want windows doing anymore, not cleaned properly so don't ask for payment".  I need to start to listening to my inner voice.  Second messer in a week cost me diesel and time.  I checked my work before I left certainly no issues at my end.  I think this industry is rife with customers who think nothing of robbing you.  Just venting.  I know its part of the course!  Have a great weekend fellow doods.

 

[Part Timer]

You really need to go back and ask her where she isn't happy. If she can't show you anywhere then you need to insist on payment. You can't let customers to get away with doing this. 

 

[scottish cleaning service]

I'm finding a lot of customers can suffer from ocd. I have one who checks my work in minute detail after I leave. I just continue to play her game but if she cancels I would never have her back. You are better not taking them on from the start but we don't know till we begin to ask for payment but as you say we start to notice signals right from day one of meeting them.

 

[RyeCleanLiam]

Happens to us all especially at the beginning. I had one about 6 months after I started said she would leave the money out in a pot next to the door each time. First clean I couldn’t see a pot but she was in so cleaned the windows, knocked the door, ‘oh sorry I’ve no cash can I do a transfer’. Needless to say I never saw the money despite numerous reminders but in the end for the sake of £15 I gave up. I learnt my lesson and signed up to GoCardless a week later and now won’t take a customer on until they’ve registered their DD details. Customers who want to mess you about just won’t sign up it’s as simple as that.

 

[Jonnyavfc]

Rocked up to a semi and quoted the lady who requested the quote on facebook, gave me the story of the old cleaner was not going to get paid as they had not cleaned her windows properly.  I said to mrs when I got home,  that woman ain't gonna pay me and will mess me about.  So, being hungry for new work I went and did it anyway.  Day after, text "don't want windows doing anymore, not cleaned properly so don't ask for payment".  I need to start to listening to my inner voice.  Second messer in a week cost me diesel and time.  I checked my work before I left certainly no issues at my end.  I think this industry is rife with customers who think nothing of robbing you.  Just venting.  I know its part of the course!  Have a great weekend fellow doods.

I'd go and chuck the dirt back up her windows 

 

[Potta81]

It is weird, I’ve been cleaning windows for 19 years & I always know the customers that will be a problem & im seldom wrong. I tend to stick to the 3 strikes & your out rule now. To busy for messers!

 

[Ana]

It would be good to go back and see the "dirty" windows in, like @Part Timer has said if it's up to scratch (and the dirt is on the INSIDE of the frames!) then demand your money. Certainly wouldn't go back after ive stated my intent to be paid properly for my time and efforts.

i had a customer this week saying I left the windows "a real mess at the back". So I thought as I'd scrubbed the wooden painted frames the paint might of leached etc, got there, it's on the inside. Told her directly and nicely I think it's in the inside and needs doing........ "no I think it's on the outside!" 

Some people are just crazy. 

 

[Perryb91]

Just carry a super soaker of garden hose water for non payers ?

 

[Tango]

Day after, text "don't want windows doing anymore, not cleaned properly so don't ask for payment".

Tough!

Go back and ask to see what they're not happy with - armed with a premade invoice. If you can genuinely see something then accept it and handle it. If it's inside, point that out (and serve your invoice - stating 7 days to pay). If they cower on the spot you know they're just trying it on - serve your invoice.

£15 is over the threshold for a small claim, make sure you state on your invoice that you will pursue the money owed plus costs.

Oh and if you can record the whole thing (eg on your phone) all the better - you then have evidence of them not only admitting that you were there cleaning their windows (along with the text) but also evidence that you've been reasonable, respectable, polite and non-threatening (which they'll then see as their get out of jail card).

Might be a bit of a faff but don't give up, you grafted, you deserve to be paid or they'll move onto another window cleaner and do the same thing. If they encounter a windy who bites back then it'll make them think twice about doing it again.

 

[Potta81]

It would be good to go back and see the "dirty" windows in, like @Part Timer has said if it's up to scratch (and the dirt is on the INSIDE of the frames!) then demand your money. Certainly wouldn't go back after ive stated my intent to be paid properly for my time and efforts.

i had a customer this week saying I left the windows "a real mess at the back". So I thought as I'd scrubbed the wooden painted frames the paint might of leached etc, got there, it's on the inside. Told her directly and nicely I think it's in the inside and needs doing........ "no I think it's on the outside!" 

Some people are just crazy. 

I’m still trad atm & collected from a customer once who said the patio windows were all smeared. I said its impossible as id bladed the windows obviously. I asked to have a look. As soon as I entered the room I knew it was inside, smeared from top to bottom. She cleaned the inside after we did the outside. I walked up to the window called her over & ran my finger down the window, a big line appeared through the smears. She apologised paid & I left lol.

 

[Pjj]

Tough!

Go back and ask to see what they're not happy with - armed with a premade invoice. If you can genuinely see something then accept it and handle it. If it's inside, point that out (and serve your invoice - stating 7 days to pay). If they cower on the spot you know they're just trying it on - serve your invoice.

£15 is over the threshold for a small claim, make sure you state on your invoice that you will pursue the money owed plus costs.

Oh and if you can record the whole thing (eg on your phone) all the better - you then have evidence of them not only admitting that you were there cleaning their windows (along with the text) but also evidence that you've been reasonable, respectable, polite and non-threatening (which they'll then see as their get out of jail card).

Might be a bit of a faff but don't give up, you grafted, you deserve to be paid or they'll move onto another window cleaner and do the same thing. If they encounter a windy who bites back then it'll make them think twice about doing it again.

I agree with your sentiments but be careful, recording someone without them knowing is illegal and classed as entrapment  ,this would result in any court case being null and void , I am currently in the process of taking a customer to court and have a lot of evidence that I can not post on hear and unfortunately cannot be used in court either , the law unfortunately is on the side of the home owner not us as service providers . I already have a CCJs against this individual but I am one of 6 that have one out against him I doubt that I will ever see the money and it’s a reasonable amount , he knows the law and is using it to get out of paying , all 6 of us now are aware of each other’s situation and are trying to force the sale of his house to pay the debts between all 6 this guy owes well over 120k , the biggest firm supplied and fitted a conservatory on his house and he refuses to pay this company are a large firm and money is no object in trying to get paid they are happy to foot the legal expenses bill for the recovery of all funds for all of us , bailiffs cannot be sent in as he has moved out and the property is empty , he has temporarily moved abroad to try and get out of this situation , he is as slippery as an eel , but he will never get credit from anyone in this country , we have all lodged this with the courts so when he dies sell the money owed will come out of the sale price , the Soliciters are trying to force the sale of the property , time will tell wether we ever see the money , but getting a CCJs doesent mean payment will follow , they can make just one small payment then stop paying and you have to go through the hole process again . Nightmare situation .

 

[Iron Giant]

@Dino you should have arranged the job so she was into to pay once completed, yes you are hungry for work, but if unsure insist on payment on the day, either before or straight after the job is done. 

 

[spruce]

I agree with your sentiments but be careful, recording someone without them knowing is illegal and classed as entrapment  ,this would result in any court case being null and void , I am currently in the process of taking a customer to court and have a lot of evidence that I can not post on hear and unfortunately cannot be used in court either , the law unfortunately is on the side of the home owner not us as service providers . I already have a CCJs against this individual but I am one of 6 that have one out against him I doubt that I will ever see the money and it’s a reasonable amount , he knows the law and is using it to get out of paying , all 6 of us now are aware of each other’s situation and are trying to force the sale of his house to pay the debts between all 6 this guy owes well over 120k , the biggest firm supplied and fitted a conservatory on his house and he refuses to pay this company are a large firm and money is no object in trying to get paid they are happy to foot the legal expenses bill for the recovery of all funds for all of us , bailiffs cannot be sent in as he has moved out and the property is empty , he has temporarily moved abroad to try and get out of this situation , he is as slippery as an eel , but he will never get credit from anyone in this country , we have all lodged this with the courts so when he dies sell the money owed will come out of the sale price , the Soliciters are trying to force the sale of the property , time will tell wether we ever see the money , but getting a CCJs doesent mean payment will follow , they can make just one small payment then stop paying and you have to go through the hole process again . Nightmare situation .

Agree, its better to take someone else along as a witness. I would tend to ask the wife to go as the home owner can't say that she was scared and felt threatened with 2 blokes at her front door.

I'm intrigued with the conservatory company's situation. When we had some new windows installed the invoice that I signed clearly stated that the windows remained the property of the manufacturer until payment was received in full. If payment wasn't received then they retained the right to remove their property. I took this to mean that if I didn't pay for them after they were installed they would remove them.

I don't actually know what the legal side is. If he's moved abroad then they should just remove the conservatory.

Back to @Dino. We all get caught by unscrupulous homeowners from time to time. Just yesterday a fellow windie told me that he pitched up for payment for a regular job and she informed him she had put a cheque in the post the previous day. Next day she moved out and hasn't been seen since and nor has the cheque she supposedly put in the post.

 

[Dino]

You really need to go back and ask her where she isn't happy. If she can't show you anywhere then you need to insist on payment. You can't let customers to get away with doing this. 

Its a 60 mile round trip.  I asked her via text what the issue was and she just ignored me.

 

[Part Timer]

Its a 60 mile round trip.  I asked her via text what the issue was and she just ignored me.

Long way to travel for a residential job, I appreciate you're new at this, and you will learn from this but you've seemed to have accepted a non payment rather to easily in my opinion. At the end of the day it's your business and debt collections is a very big part of it. 

 

[Wind o kleen]

Its a 60 mile round trip.  I asked her via text what the issue was and she just ignored me.

How much was this job ?

 

[spruce]

Long way to travel for a residential job, I appreciate you're new at this, and you will learn from this but you've seemed to have accepted a non payment rather to easily in my opinion. At the end of the day it's your business and debt collections is a very big part of it. 

Sounds as though she an old hand at doing this. The very fact that she warned him that the previous cleaner didn't get paid because he didn't do a good job tells me that this is a game to her. She knows consumer rules work in her favour and is playing the game to her advantage. She has probably got a bet on somewhere that she can get 10 free window cleans, or this is a challenge like shoplifting is to some even although they can afford the stuff they are stealing. It might even get her a thrill and an adrenaline rush, who knows? She has also had to go further afield (60 miles) to catch her next window cleaning victim.

Yes @Dino could take legal action to get a response from her but the cost probably isn't worth the result.

I'm sure @Dino is now better prepared when quoting something out of area like this. Also, the next time a potential customer says that my previous window cleaner didn't do a good job and so didn't get paid would be an instant red flag. Another red flag is when a customer tells you that the previous windie stopped coming.

 

[Part Timer]

Yes @Dino could take legal action to get a response from her but the cost probably isn't worth the result.

I agree that ultimately if she's playing the game and knows the rules well then he probably won't get his money. What I don't understand is how quickly he's accepted it. A few texts and phone calls, even a letter, threatening court action might work and would be something I would be doing.

 

[Pjj]

Agree, its better to take someone else along as a witness. I would tend to ask the wife to go as the home owner can't say that she was scared and felt threatened with 2 blokes at her front door.

I'm intrigued with the conservatory company's situation. When we had some new windows installed the invoice that I signed clearly stated that the windows remained the property of the manufacturer until payment was received in full. If payment wasn't received then they retained the right to remove their property. I took this to mean that if I didn't pay for them after they were installed they would remove them.

I don't actually know what the legal side is. If he's moved abroad then they should just remove the conservatory.

Back to @Dino. We all get caught by unscrupulous homeowners from time to time. Just yesterday a fellow windie told me that he pitched up for payment for a regular job and she informed him she had put a cheque in the post the previous day. Next day she moved out and hasn't been seen since and nor has the cheque she supposedly put in the post.

This is interesting and a contentious subject , if you by a sofa and dont pay for it it can be repossessed or taken by the Bailiffs ,but anything that is fitted or attached the the property ie conservatory, windows ,heating system fitted kitchen etc is class as part of the property and cannot be removed or siezed , also if there are children in the home under 16 there are certain things that again cannot be taken or turned off fir non payment of bills due to causing them hardship water, electricity are two such things .

This legal wrangle has been going in fir over 12 months now and I see no end in site at the  moment . 

 

[spruce]

This is interesting and a contentious subject , if you by a sofa and dont pay for it it can be repossessed or taken by the Bailiffs ,but anything that is fitted or attached the the property ie conservatory, windows ,heating system fitted kitchen etc is class as part of the property and cannot be removed or siezed , also if there are children in the home under 16 there are certain things that again cannot be taken or turned off fir non payment of bills due to causing them hardship water, electricity are two such things .

This legal wrangle has been going in fir over 12 months now and I see no end in site at the  moment . 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-LqLU7CxeA

 

[NoName]

Hey Dino, that's annoying! K sera sera

I always tell my new custy's - that it can take a 2-3 cleans to achieve an optimal finish - I also say if you are ever less than delighted with anything - missed a window/finish not 100%? Just text/call and we'll return immediately and put it right.

I do this because I genuinely want the custy to be happy (so they stay my custy) and I'm only human! Just thinking that would act as a deterrent for your dodgy custy - if she knows you're prepared to return - then her 'objection' would be quickly de-dunked!

Have had quite a few false alarms' - typically blown double gazed units & dirt on insides and one absolute classic - I got a call from custy - I'd done earlierl - saying she got our invoice - but complained her windows were all still dusty! Her implied point - was I just posted the invoice through the letterbox. I returned and soon got the bottom - custy was a little red faced after I showed her only the windows at the front where dusty (others were spotless) and pointed out the roofer opposite caught red handed with his tile cutter creating billows of dusty smoke ? ...she profusely apologised. I recleaned her front windows any how since I was there..think I've earnt lifelong loyalty ?