5 stage RO system help

[ks789]

Make sure the flow into the di vessel is the correct way. Its possible to accidentally put it the wrong way. it should say OUT  for where the final pipe goes into your storage tank. Id done it the wrong way once and it reduced the resins capabilities. Also, as doug said, is that set up right? I dont know, but it looks like theres a pipe going from one end of the membrane to one di vessel, and pipe going from the other end of the membrane to another di vessel. Prob my mistake, I do find it confusing trying to work out other set ups.

 

[doug atkinson]

Noooooo!!! 

So after flushing the RO, salt backwashing the softener and replacing all of the DI bead just a few days back and getting everything to the perfect 000 again............. I come home today to find it’s up to 008!?!? What the hell is going on??? 

A local windee thinks everything is fine up to my DI! He says he thinks it’s obvious that maybe the DI isn’t polishing it off (top might not be screwed on firmly or water is managing to somehow pass through the top of the vessel without passing through the bead?). It’s seems fine though! 

Somebody please help!!! 

Cannot tell but the hose going into the DI Vessel is that coming from the middle port or side port.

On your waste pipe what is setting your ratio pure to waste, I can see a check valve in line if I’m correct.

You need to measure a couple of things. What is the ppm going into the DI Vessel.

How long does it take to fill a litre jug from pure and waste.

 

[Hoops]

Cannot tell but the hose going into the DI Vessel is that coming from the middle port or side port.

On your waste pipe what is setting your ratio pure to waste, I can see a check valve in line if I’m correct.

You need to measure a couple of things. What is the ppm going into the DI Vessel.

How long does it take to fill a litre jug from pure and waste.

It’s from the side port of the RO to the DI vessel. 

I dont yet have an inline TDS meter before DI (having one installed in the new year).

Take roughly a minute and a half to fill a litre jug of pure and the same for waste.

Im just so confused as to how it’s jumped so high so quickly? Seems very odd to me!? 

 

[spruce]

Cannot tell but the hose going into the DI Vessel is that coming from the middle port or side port.

On your waste pipe what is setting your ratio pure to waste, I can see a check valve in line if I’m correct.

You need to measure a couple of things. What is the ppm going into the DI Vessel.

How long does it take to fill a litre jug from pure and waste.

 Well spotted Doug. BTW, have a good holiday.

@Lucas

Go back to that photo of the housing showing both ports.

The center port is your pure. This is the pipe that will go to your di vessel and from your di vessel to your storage tank.

It must not have any valves of restrictions on it apart from the inline tds meter sensor.

The outer port is your waste port. To start off with you just need a valve that to can adjust to throttle back all your water going to waste. I would go for the one you adjust with your screw driver.

I've added a terrible sketch to help.

 

[doug atkinson]

@spruce Cheers needing it

@Hoops See Spruces diagram as you’ve have it wrong. Unfortunately I think you have damaged your membrane 

 

[Hoops]

@spruce Cheers needing it

@Hoops See Spruces diagram as you’ve have it wrong. Unfortunately I think you have damaged your membrane 

Apologies, it’s all correct. It is coming from the centre port! Picture threw me! 

So now what? 

 

[doug atkinson]

You need to measure the ppm with your TDS meter going into DI.

 

[Guest]

 Well spotted Doug. BTW, have a good holiday.

@Lucas

Go back to that photo of the housing showing both ports.

The center port is your pure. This is the pipe that will go to your di vessel and from your di vessel to your storage tank.

It must not have any valves of restrictions on it apart from the inline tds meter sensor.

The outer port is your waste port. To start off with you just need a valve that to can adjust to throttle back all your water going to waste. I would go for the one you adjust with your screw driver.

I've added a terrible sketch to help.

View attachment 18590

Thank you Spruce! Great picture!

Ive follow your sketch, turn the water tap on plus booster pump.

Right now ppm is 54 but will let it settle.

The pressure gauge isn't showing anything.. if I may could you please show as a picture of your waste valve? I have the screw valve as well but not sure where exactly to leave.

Thank you very much.

 

[doug atkinson]

@LucasUnfortunately the way you have set that up you may have damaged the membrane. I know you’re trying to build your own but if you get it wrong that’s the membrane damaged.

From your filters which port is entry into the membrane housing centre or side

When you seated the membrane into the housing the white o ring which end is it, filter feed end or other end.

Centre is the pure which goes to the DI but you have a loop joining the waste with a tap. Doing that with the tap open it will damage the membrane sheeting.

That loop needs to be removed so Centre port direct into DI Vessel

Waste side port you have a valve in line not one I would use. Setting to 60% pure again damages your membrane.

You should go no more than 45% pure 55 % waste.

i have a feeling that you may have damaged your membrane.

Make those changes and flush for a good hour. Then set ratio and hopefully you have not damaged the membrane 

 

[spruce]

Thank you Spruce! Great picture!

Ive follow your sketch, turn the water tap on plus booster pump.

Right now ppm is 54 but will let it settle.

The pressure gauge isn't showing anything.. if I may could you please show as a picture of your waste valve? I have the screw valve as well but not sure where exactly to leave.

Thank you very much.

Here's my r/o.

Its different to yours as my end housings are different and I don't have a flush valve.

As you can see my main supply from my prefilters goes down to the housing at the bottom of my R/o housing. My housing has the inlet and the waste ports on the side of the housings. Yours will be the offset ports at each end.

If you look at the top of the 4040 housing the yellow hose is the pure and it goes directly to the DI vessel. That outlet port is in the center of the housing. In that yellow hose out of sight is my first inline tds sensor. After the di vessel the clear hose loops and then exits out of the top of the cabinet. You will see a second inline TDS sensor visible. That clear house then goes off to my IBC tank.

You will see a red gate valve on the waste port. I use that to restrict the water to waste. When I flush I open the gate valve fully and when I have done that I slowly close it. I have marked the gate valve so know when I have closed it enough. I then wait a few minutes and tweak the valve either slightly open of closed until I get the lowest tds reading on my inline tds meter.

 

[spruce]

Here's the r/o from the other side but it won't help you much.

What you are trying to achieve is a flush kit. This is a copy of the one on Ro-Man's website. In place of the fixed restrictor you have the adjustable one you need a screw driver to adjust. The lower valve is an on off valve. When you open the tap water rushes to waste which flushes the membrane. Close the tap and the preset setting takes over to where you set your pure to waste ratio.

 

[Guest]

@LucasUnfortunately the way you have set that up you may have damaged the membrane. I know you’re trying to build your own but if you get it wrong that’s the membrane damaged.

From your filters which port is entry into the membrane housing centre or side

When you seated the membrane into the housing the white o ring which end is it, filter feed end or other end.

Centre is the pure which goes to the DI but you have a loop joining the waste with a tap. Doing that with the tap open it will damage the membrane sheeting.

That loop needs to be removed so Centre port direct into DI Vessel

Waste side port you have a valve in line not one I would use. Setting to 60% pure again damages your membrane.

You should go no more than 45% pure 55 % waste.

i have a feeling that you may have damaged your membrane.

Make those changes and flush for a good hour. Then set ratio and hopefully you have not damaged the membrane 

Ok, when flushing pump on or off?

After flushing for how long the water pump can it stay on for? 

Thank you.

 

[Guest]

View attachment 18593

Here's the r/o from the other side but it won't help you much.

What you are trying to achieve is a flush kit. This is a copy of the one on Ro-Man's website. In place of the fixed restrictor you have the adjustable one you need a screw driver to adjust. The lower valve is an on off valve. When you open the tap water rushes to waste which flushes the membrane. Close the tap and the preset setting takes over to where you set your pure to waste ratio.View attachment 18594

Thank you Spruce,

I fully understand now, thank you for your help.

Im flashing now for over an hour and then set the ratio to 40pure 60waste and see what comes out.

I only produced 400L in the wrong way so hopefully it should be fine.

Thank you.

 

[Pjj]

Sorry guys I’m on holiday and trying to relax. Lucas has sent email but Lucus has emailed us about couple of issues. I can see his set up and can see things which are wrong and could damage his membrane. This forum is great with good advise with likes of Spruce etc.. Can I please ask members on this forum please try and not listen to the FB crowd who often give wrong advise. One customer has spent £600 + and I finally twigged the problem.

Flushing is key as it dislodges the solids that build up in your membrane.

Setting the correct ratio waste to pure is key as it will damage your membrane. Then that’s money down the drain . It’s not the manufacturer fault as they have guidelines but if you listen to some people     you’ve just been wasted your money.

Sorry having a rant but you have to listen to specifications.

I am chilling out as need it but sorry some set ups are wrong and it can be very expensive wasted money.

If I can will help but in break which I need cheers

I understand what you are saying but there is no dirt to dislodge with a new membrane, so why dies it need flushing for so long ?? I don’t want to disturb your holiday have a nice time and relax , no rush for an answer 

 

[spruce]

I understand what you are saying but there is no dirt to dislodge with a new membrane, so why dies it need flushing for so long ?? I don’t want to disturb your holiday have a nice time and relax , no rush for an answer 

Its to remove all the preserver chemicals the membrane is soaked with after manufacture.

 

[spruce]

Ok, when flushing pump on or off?

After flushing for how long the water pump can it stay on for? 

Thank you.

When flushing you should switch your booster pump off. Once you start producing water you switch the booster on. You will set your pure to waste ratio with the booster on.

Legally, the water authority states that your aren't permitted to 'draw' more than 12lpm of water from your mains using a booster. (This doesn't mean that without a booster you won't get more water. For example, our water pressure is 50psi and we get 13lpm of water through the tap.)

With the booster pump on you will draw much more than 12lpm of water from the mains when flushing. When you start drawing more than 12lpm you need to install a break tank according to the regulations.  With a standard 4040 setup correctly producing water you won't exceed 12lpm of water from the mains.

A shower booster pump is designed to never draw more than 12lpm from the mains to satisfy the regulations.

 

[Pjj]

Its to remove all the preserver chemicals the membrane is soaked with after manufacture.

Ok , not Hurd that before the membranes come in a sealed plastic bag type of thing , so why do they need preserving ? The membranes arnt made of a perishable substance are they ? Ime not trying to be awkward Ime genuinely interested ,I changed the membrane on my oldest van after 7 years champ 4040 , I put the new membrane in and flushed it for less than 10 muinits that membrane is still going strong and producing fine it’s now over 8 years old and I produce 650 ltr of pure with it 5 days a week , I very rarely flush it through full stop occasionally for 15-20 muinits , so surely treating it this way it should be knackered ?? But it’s not it produces pure at a reading of 003 . ,I don’t understand all the facts and figures like you do , but Ime surprised it’s still producing like it is . 

 

[doug atkinson]

Ok , not Hurd that before the membranes come in a sealed plastic bag type of thing , so why do they need preserving ? The membranes arnt made of a perishable substance are they ? Ime not trying to be awkward Ime genuinely interested ,I changed the membrane on my oldest van after 7 years champ 4040 , I put the new membrane in and flushed it for less than 10 muinits that membrane is still going strong and producing fine it’s now over 8 years old and I produce 650 ltr of pure with it 5 days a week , I very rarely flush it through full stop occasionally for 15-20 muinits , so surely treating it this way it should be knackered ?? But it’s not it produces pure at a reading of 003 . ,I don’t understand all the facts and figures like you do , but Ime surprised it’s still producing like it is . 

“003” ppm what is your Tap ppm

 

[Pjj]

“003” ppm what is your Tap ppm

Varies between 80-95 

 

[spruce]

Ok , not Hurd that before the membranes come in a sealed plastic bag type of thing , so why do they need preserving ? The membranes arnt made of a perishable substance are they ? Ime not trying to be awkward Ime genuinely interested ,I changed the membrane on my oldest van after 7 years champ 4040 , I put the new membrane in and flushed it for less than 10 muinits that membrane is still going strong and producing fine it’s now over 8 years old and I produce 650 ltr of pure with it 5 days a week , I very rarely flush it through full stop occasionally for 15-20 muinits , so surely treating it this way it should be knackered ?? But it’s not it produces pure at a reading of 003 . ,I don’t understand all the facts and figures like you do , but Ime surprised it’s still producing like it is . 

Me too. I flushed mine for 2 or 3 minutes. But the suppliers tell us to flush for quite a while.

Yes, they come soaked with preserver and in a sealed packet.

 

[doug atkinson]

Varies between 80-95 

Your water would be classed as med soft so it’s is not a major issue compared to someone who has ppm of 400 +. 

If someone who has hard water quality listened to someone in soft water area the information would be wrong. As the person who lives in very hard water area he needs to flush it longer.

The main issues I’ve seen where membranes fail is dirty water caused by burst water mains etc... 

Another problem is cheep filters where the carbon burns the membrane sheet.

Also I hard water areas where they are not flushing and there is calcium build up in the membrane which clogs it.