Anyone for new software?

[ched999uk]

I honestly don't need anything added to a round software program because cleaner planner does it all for me.I don't like to overcomplicate what is a simple window cleaning business to run.

To be honest you have just said that MTD is something you want to be able to do. So a new piece of software might be able to do all CP does and MTD. So that would simplify things!

 

[dazmond]

To be honest you have just said that MTD is something you want to be able to do. So a new piece of software might be able to do all CP does and MTD. So that would simplify things!

Yes of course but it doesn't need all these bells and whistle suggestions that some window cleaners are putting forward. Too much automation is not a good thing IMO but maybe I just like simplicity

 

[P4dstar]

Yes of course but it doesn't need all these bells and whistle suggestions that some window cleaners are putting forward. Too much automation is not a good thing IMO but maybe I just like simplicity

This thread has a wish list of features. When people did this to Squeegee the developers started making a load of changes at once which resulted in a lot of app issues.

One thing I will say, looking over the squeegee app today I can see it looks ridiculously complicated. In the top section, the bit that has the work and rounds, it has 7 sections that realistically could be 2. I imagine the app is daunting for a new person.

 

[Bonnie_Webb]

Evening folks,

I'll cut to it. A decade or so ago () I built a thing called CleanerPlanner. Seems it stood the test of time pretty well, but is now starting to show its age, and hasn't moved forward in years.

A couple of windies have reached out recently to ask if I have a new round management app in the pipeline. I don't - yet - though I'm starting to think it might not be the stupidest of ideas!

They mentioned features such as Xero integration, an API (to enable automations, e.g. with Zapier) as being missing from other apps, as well as reliability and reporting issues and limitations.

And look, if we were to build something new, it would be a blank canvas - I'd love to hear all the cool ideas you guys have for reinventing the game and taking WC software to the next level!

But, big but...

I only want to build something you guys actually want. So if you're happy with the options that are already on the market - honestly - just tell me to move on, you'll be doing me a favour

So what do you think - yay or nay?

If yay - I'd love to hear what features you have in mind! And/or even just little things that bug you about the other apps out there.

If nay - no hard feelings! Just looking for clarity either way.

Cheers,

Rob

Hi, Do you still own Cleanerplanner? Would it not be easier to add new things to the current app instead of making a new app?

Thank you

 

[ched999uk]

This thread has a wish list of features. When people did this to Squeegee the developers started making a load of changes at once which resulted in a lot of app issues.

One thing I will say, looking over the squeegee app today I can see it looks ridiculously complicated. In the top section, the bit that has the work and rounds, it has 7 sections that realistically could be 2. I imagine the app is daunting for a new person.

The do have a good training guide now, that helps. I think Squeegee are doing 30 free trial then 6 months at half price!

Software is a very tricky thing to build as people think they understand what we need but each of us works differently so trying to get something that caters for everyone's needs and is simple to use is the golden goose!

 

[robmorgan]

Good discussion this.

The thing about software, is sometimes it needs to be complicated under the hood, to make life simpler for you!

As @ched999uk points out, while software that doesn't help with MTD would be simpler, that would actually make your life more complicated!

I need to do a bit more research into MTD, but it sounds like it will require you to submit totals every 3 months, which you'll already be used to if you're VAT registered (though if you are, you probably use accounting software e.g. Xero).

So I think we'll need to cover two bases:

1. If you use accounting software, e.g. Xero, we need to integrate with that, posting totals across so they can be submitted to MTD (probably by your accountant, along with your VAT return if you're registered).

2. If you don't use accounting software, we either need to look at getting approved for a direct connection to HMRC (quite feasible I believe) or perhaps integrate with an app like Rhino as @dazmond mentioned.

Either way, I think being able to automate this, rather than have to copy/paste figures between two apps would make your lives simpler!

 

[robmorgan]

Yes of course but it doesn't need all these bells and whistle suggestions that some window cleaners are putting forward. Too much automation is not a good thing IMO but maybe I just like simplicity

Worth bearing in mind @dazmond that CP is far from simple. It might not be packed with as many shiny gizmos as a Squeegee, but it has a lot of little details you probably don't think about anymore but which make your life easier.

Tbh, I'd never go the "kitchen sink" route with a new app - not my style - as I get the impression not many people use all those gizmos, and it's hard to build and maintain a reliable, intuitive system when you've got so much going on.

I'm keen to get some "big-hitting" features in a new app of course, otherwise what's the point? But equally, I'm not going to ram stuff in for the heck of it. Everything has to make sense and be reliable and easy-to-use.

If you look back over this thread, and if I look back over the messages I've exchanged with people, so far the requests have been more around small to medium things - e.g. blocking out holidays, warning about moving a repeat job, multiple emails per customer - not stuff that's all that "exciting" but definitely stuff that could make your life easier.

And then some of the bigger-hitting ideas - MTD I think is essential, and texting through your phone (rather than Textlocal), possibly via WhatsApp would be a better experience for customers, and save you a fair chunk of cash!

So yeah, don't worry, it's not going to be some horrible complicated mess Far from it. And in any case, if it doesn't float your boat, stick with CP - it's all good! Though I'm fairly confident I can put something together that will tempt you

 

[P4dstar]

The do have a good training guide now, that helps. I think Squeegee are doing 30 free trial then 6 months at half price!

Software is a very tricky thing to build as people think they understand what we need but each of us works differently so trying to get something that caters for everyone's needs and is simple to use is the golden goose!

I’ve sat all of my chaps through the training. Genuinely none of them have ever found it helpful. It’s a complicated app when you break down all of the different functions. If half of those functions were in sub sections only to be used by people who need them it would be much easier to talk them through the basics. Following a route, closing jobs etc. you’ve got for example “expenses, expense categories, chart of accounts, payments & reporting” all under one category. I’m not suggesting taking this away (although I do think a couple of those belong in together also), im suggesting that could be under one sub heading and thus not confuse people who never use that section.

 

[robmorgan]

Hi, Do you still own Cleanerplanner? Would it not be easier to add new things to the current app instead of making a new app?

Thank you

Apologies @Bonnie_Webb only just spotted your reply as a few came through at the same time...

I don't own CP anymore. Sold it in 2019. Was a tough decision and one I wish I could have back if I'm honest. I was burned out at the time (5 years in) and Squeegee were being quite aggressive in pursuing CP customers. I was worried I would "lose it all" which in hindsight didn't make sense, as CP is a fundamentally different offering to Squeegee - seems you either get on with one or the other. What I did lose was a sense of purpose - cliche I know but true

Of course Squeegee's pricing, especially for multi-van is, I believe, one of the reasons many have stayed with CP (not the only reason). If I build a new app the pricing would be realistic for one-man bands right up to 20+ van operations.

Digressing but no. I would be starting 100% from scratch. This would be a good thing though, as I'm a much better developer than I was 10 years ago, and my skills are bang up to date, having been contracting for the last 5 years, working on some large, highly scalable systems, and having also built another app (for accountants) which hasn't been quite as commercially successful (or fun!) as CP (accountants are a tricky breed ) but it's a solid product nonetheless.

Not that you guys care what "tech stack" it's built on but CP is on a pretty antiquated stack at this point. If I build a new app it will be cutting edge, and you'll see that both in the look and feel, but also the speed and "snappiness" of it.

 

[robmorgan]

I’ve sat all of my chaps through the training. Genuinely none of them have ever found it helpful. It’s a complicated app when you break down all of the different functions. If half of those functions were in sub sections only to be used by people who need them it would be much easier to talk them through the basics. Following a route, closing jobs etc. you’ve got for example “expenses, expense categories, chart of accounts, payments & reporting” all under one category. I’m not suggesting taking this away (although I do think a couple of those belong in together also), im suggesting that could be under one sub heading and thus not confuse people who never use that section.

100% @P4dstar - I'm of the belief that good software should explain itself, not with words, but with how it works.

It should sort of unfold and reveal what it can do subtly as you use it, with a series of small "aha" moments, rather than ramming everything in your face from the get-go.

Needing training videos for everything is a sign that the software is too complicated IMO, as let's face it, no-one really wants to have to sit through all those videos!

While many consider CP to be simple (to use), and I think it is fairly self-explanatory for the most part, I think I still could have done better in some areas, e.g. the add customer screen is very busy.

I'm keen to really nail the simplicity thing in a new app. The user interface should be a literal joy to use, not a wind-up.

 

[Gadgetfox]

I think everything is probably said. The only thing I would like to see is the ability to use App in conjunction with a pc-based App - both doing the same thing and working together. I always use a pc to update cleaning done, customer paid etc, this is because I need a big screen - eyesight not what it used to be... I would also like the ability to export all the data. I used to be a data analyst/programmer so I like to use excel to integrate the data as I see fit.


Now if it integrated with the Basic PAYE Tools seen below, that would be useful...