Decision time

[Jake]

Yeah I'm with you @daveyboy1 and other quick tradders, and we can concur that trad is a very cheap and fast way of making money,

Wfp is superb, I love my wfp, but I'm just simply saying trad is so easy and simple for part timers...

 

[iconicfranchise.co.uk]

I have to agree 100% with Jake WFP is a great tool to have . But ive been cleaning windows for over 30 years and if you are good with a squeegee its not the golden nugget some would have you believe. When you add the true cost of equipment and running costs especially if its a hot system . All this you will earn double is a load bull. you might earn more but there's more outlay. From my point of view wfp has just opened a lot more doors to people to start window cleaning who would have thought twice if they had to spend a couple of months learning to squeegee properly and getting up and down ladders.

You've just admitted that you earn more using WFP (even if there is more outlay), so why stay trad?

 

[spanish pete]

I have a hot water wfp van system, so I can see it from both points. But when I look in my van and add up all the kit including poles it would take a good few years to see a profit on the difference to what I would earn trad. Plus in my area more so on new builds there still is a suspicion about the wfp.

 

[Jake]

You've just admitted that you earn more using WFP (even if there is more outlay), so why stay trad?

We are saying that wfp is better, but for part time, not really much point...no doubt wfp will earn you more, but for a part timer, were saying there is probably more profit in the simplicity of trad.

 

[Dave B]

It all depends..if you have someone to buy water from it can be cheap..especially as he already has a backpack setup

Get 2nd backpack for worker

Cheap bayersan pole off ebay

Out working for couple hundred quid

The expense i have found is to set up producing pure..cheaper in the long run

But buying it for 4p a litre is a lot less grief

I was trad for 26 years and switched to trad for a grand total of £185

Made that back by day 2

Now i earn more (not double as i can trad quick without thinking about it) and safe and can do jobs i wouldn't have before like the flats i posted about yesterday

I definitely think the benefits outweigh the cost

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

I will concur with Jake that the profits margins are far superior when sticking to trad, I think we all know that.

I will also say I don't think we are talking of going full blown HOT WFP here Pete (I dont know for sure but I am assuming that's not on the list just yet)

However I think you have to agree that you can get a lot more done when using a decent WFP system competently.

Pete makes the point that WFP has created opportunities for those that would have not bothered if squeegee was the only option, but I also think quite a few of those, and I don't know how to put this so I will wing it, don't really understand window cleaning, if that makes any sense.

Even if you have a WFP set up you still need to have the ability and more importantly the experience in my opinion to truly understand window cleaning.

Now Jake has said 'would not go back to trad for anything' but I am pretty confident that Jake hass a varied enough round that it requires him to break out the squeegee once in a while, a shop front perhaps? Granny Smiths inside windows? we all have those jobs that can't be WFP.

Yes Pete perhaps double is optimistic but you know it can reduce your clean time quite dramatically. And I think even for a part time operator it could be a huge advantage.

But as always this is just my opinion, nothing more!

 

[Duncs]

just been reading the threads point dan has to remember

is he is only wanting to work two or three days per week

there is no way i would invest in WFP for two days graft

keep your cream work and get rid of the crap

take your mate on nice little earner happy days

 

[Danfire]

Spot on Duncs, just want to make the most out of those two or three days. I can't see the expense of running another vehicle with full set up will be justified for the additional income I can generate in those days. I suspect getting us both going with backpacks/carts could well end up being worth the outlay though. If I can find someone reliable and local (Petersfield/Havant/Portsmouth) that's happy to sell me pure that would be great. Anyone on here able to supply me?

 

[Dave B]

Backpack on a sack barrow works well

If no suppliers nearby get a cheap ro from ebay..cheapie payed peanuts for his and won't need much pure if you trad bottoms and whizz round tops wfp

A lot quicker than getting the ladders out

 

[Jake]

Of course I still trad @Green, but I'm saying I wouldn't go back to full time trad,

If I was part time though, it certainly think about it,

I'm judging the expense on a van system though, so perhaps a trolley is a totally different story, but I think I'd soon get fed up of a trolley system, but then that's because I started with a van mount,

If you can buy pure (I do) then that's a big help if your in a hard water area; but if not, then I think sticking with trad is great for part timers,

I suppose if he already has a backpack then of course go full out wfp as he must already be producing pure (perhaps I should have read all the thread!)

It starts getting expensive with poles and brushes, but being part time he can probably get away with a hybrid pole like a Clx and the like..

As soon as you go to carbon your looking at £220-1000 depending on size, which is why I was thinking trad is just so cheap and simple for maximum profit

 

[Danfire]

Of course I still trad @Green, but I'm saying I wouldn't go back to full time trad,
If I was part time though, it certainly think about it,

I'm judging the expense on a van system though, so perhaps a trolley is a totally different story, but I think I'd soon get fed up of a trolley system, but then that's because I started with a van mount,

If you can buy pure (I do) then that's a big help if your in a hard water area; but if not, then I think sticking with trad is great for part timers,

I suppose if he already has a backpack then of course go full out wfp as he must already be producing pure (perhaps I should have read all the thread!)

It starts getting expensive with poles and brushes, but being part time he can probably get away with a hybrid pole like a Clx and the like..

As soon as you go to carbon your looking at £220-1000 depending on size, which is why I was thinking trad is just so cheap and simple for maximum profit

I get my pure from a friend, he works for a company that manufactures cleaning fluids for jet engines, somewhere in the process thousands of litres of pure water gets produced. He has been great but I think I might strain our friendship if I kept dropping eight empty barrels on his doorstep every night. That's why I want to find someone that can supply or start producing myself so I can use it much more and quit hassling my buddy.

 

[Taxlossloz]

Why do you insist on asking impossible questions Danfire? And it's not just Danfire there are plenty that do it.
If you buy this if you buy that how much more money will you make? How long is that piece of string? Is today the day I win the Lottery? Who the hell knows?

You think you are now in a position to take someone on yet window cleaning is not yet you full time occupation, why oh why would you want to take on someone to do a task you are not yourself fully yet committed to?

What area do you live in? Is it a $hit hole where £4-5 per house is all you can expect or is it all footballers mansions where you can charge £100 per job?

I used to have a lad here called Micky, demonic tradder, he WILL NOT use WFP as he does not consider that true window cleaning, he will only trad on his ladder.

When working for me he would turn out an average of £32 per hour, 6 hours per day £192 per day, I paid him £10 per hour lets say we put aside a very generous £32 for petrol, vehicle costs replacement scrims and the likes and I still profited by £100 per day from Micky.

So in short if you hire Micky to work for you and buy a WFP set up you will make nothing cause he wont use it, if you give him a squeegee and ladder he will earn you £100 per day profit providing you can find the work for him.

At what point do you dip into your other jobs earnings to pay your lads a bit when the weather is so bad they cant work? Cause if they aint earning they aint eating and they aint staying!

Can you canvass enough work to warrant an extra lad? Even if you have him cheap, say £50 per day 4 days per week you need to pay him £200 per week, £800 per month (based on 4 week month) so including fuel tools etc he is probably costing you closer to £950. That's £11'400 per year just for a lad to help out a few days a week.

So at £10 per job that is 95 new customers you need to solicit on a monthly basis JUST TO PAY the new guy before you have earnt a penny.

Are you willing to take care of his taxes and NI payments every month, the law has changed, now even with just one part time employee you will have to have a pension plan for him.

I now truly believe for all the extra **** you have to go through just to get one lad on the books there is no point if you just want a little help, you may as well trim down so you can manage.

If you are going to take on one, you may as well plan to take on 50 cause at the end of it the paperwork is still about the same.

I once made a quip about why bother when chatting to a cleaning chap that told me his boss had 300 employees out there cleaning floors at £7.50 per hour, at the time minimum wage was £6.25 per hour, I made the point of why waste the effort for just £1.25 per hour? He replied he doesn't, he makes the effort for £375 per hour. That is when the light bulb went on in my head.

Well that's my advice for what it's worth.

You've got to love it when GREEN gets going

Why do you insist on asking impossible questions Danfire? And it's not just Danfire there are plenty that do it.
If you buy this if you buy that how much more money will you make? How long is that piece of string? Is today the day I win the Lottery? Who the hell knows?

You think you are now in a position to take someone on yet window cleaning is not yet you full time occupation, why oh why would you want to take on someone to do a task you are not yourself fully yet committed to?

What area do you live in? Is it a $hit hole where £4-5 per house is all you can expect or is it all footballers mansions where you can charge £100 per job?

I used to have a lad here called Micky, demonic tradder, he WILL NOT use WFP as he does not consider that true window cleaning, he will only trad on his ladder.

When working for me he would turn out an average of £32 per hour, 6 hours per day £192 per day, I paid him £10 per hour lets say we put aside a very generous £32 for petrol, vehicle costs replacement scrims and the likes and I still profited by £100 per day from Micky.

So in short if you hire Micky to work for you and buy a WFP set up you will make nothing cause he wont use it, if you give him a squeegee and ladder he will earn you £100 per day profit providing you can find the work for him.

At what point do you dip into your other jobs earnings to pay your lads a bit when the weather is so bad they cant work? Cause if they aint earning they aint eating and they aint staying!

Can you canvass enough work to warrant an extra lad? Even if you have him cheap, say £50 per day 4 days per week you need to pay him £200 per week, £800 per month (based on 4 week month) so including fuel tools etc he is probably costing you closer to £950. That's £11'400 per year just for a lad to help out a few days a week.

So at £10 per job that is 95 new customers you need to solicit on a monthly basis JUST TO PAY the new guy before you have earnt a penny.

Are you willing to take care of his taxes and NI payments every month, the law has changed, now even with just one part time employee you will have to have a pension plan for him.

I now truly believe for all the extra **** you have to go through just to get one lad on the books there is no point if you just want a little help, you may as well trim down so you can manage.

If you are going to take on one, you may as well plan to take on 50 cause at the end of it the paperwork is still about the same.

I once made a quip about why bother when chatting to a cleaning chap that told me his boss had 300 employees out there cleaning floors at £7.50 per hour, at the time minimum wage was £6.25 per hour, I made the point of why waste the effort for just £1.25 per hour? He replied he doesn't, he makes the effort for £375 per hour. That is when the light bulb went on in my head.

Well that's my advice for what it's worth.

I will concur with Jake that the profits margins are far superior when sticking to trad, I think we all know that.
I will also say I don't think we are talking of going full blown HOT WFP here Pete (I dont know for sure but I am assuming that's not on the list just yet)

However I think you have to agree that you can get a lot more done when using a decent WFP system competently.

Pete makes the point that WFP has created opportunities for those that would have not bothered if squeegee was the only option, but I also think quite a few of those, and I don't know how to put this so I will wing it, don't really understand window cleaning, if that makes any sense.

Even if you have a WFP set up you still need to have the ability and more importantly the experience in my opinion to truly understand window cleaning.

Now Jake has said 'would not go back to trad for anything' but I am pretty confident that Jake hass a varied enough round that it requires him to break out the squeegee once in a while, a shop front perhaps? Granny Smiths inside windows? we all have those jobs that can't be WFP.

Yes Pete perhaps double is optimistic but you know it can reduce your clean time quite dramatically. And I think even for a part time operator it could be a huge advantage.

But as always this is just my opinion, nothing more!

Green I admire your passion and enjoy your posts

Dont you need to get off here and get on with that MASSIVE job ( don't know how you cope with that good luck !)

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

Green I admire your passion and enjoy your postsDont you need to get off here and get on with that MASSIVE job

Yes as it is only day 4 and already had to sack 2 whiny little b**ches from the crew -- you wouldn't believe it if you hadn't been there to hear it...

I will name names and that's not my style but this pr!ck deserves it! MARCUS OF LEICESTER

His first day Friday, within an hour 'oh this aint for me, doing all this shop glass is too much 8 hours a day on builders clean no amount of money is worth my mental state blah blah effingg BS blah.........'

10 seconds past this he is collapsing his Unger Optiloc pole when he lets the top section shoot down and he gets 'the pinch' you all know what I mean where you pinch a bit of you finger between pole sections closing too fast.

So now he's doubled over yelling 'That's f**ked up my finger it's well mashed up' and crying like a girl scout that's lost her cookies! (All this is in front of many grown men and women contracting on the site)

Any how I calm him down he carrys on working, I phone him that night and he apologies for his behavior and he's well up for it now he's found his groove happy days.

I call him again last night just to ensure he's all good 'Yes mate, sound, looking forward to it, see you tomorrow'

So this morning I am seeing my super on the site whos giving me a brief of sectors and requirements for the day when Marcus turns in 15 minutes early, so I'm happy.

As we're heading from office to site he states 'I need a word'

'Whats up?' I ask

'This aint for me, I'm jacking it in' (now at this point you need to know I had just seen him in the car park getting on all his PPE clothing just to come and tell me he's jacking in)

'What the f***?' I say, 'Whats the issue? Last night you were up for it?'

(NOW WAIT FOR IT GUYS CAUSE IT'S A GOOD ONE!!)

'Yes but I need to go home' He says

'Why?' I say

(ARE YOU READY LADS? ARE YOU SURE)

'Because I've left my lunch at home!' He tells me!

'Are you F****ng serious?' I retort

'Oh you don't understand he says, I make all my own food as I am vegan vegetarian so I have to have my own lunches' He says

'For gods sake' I say 'Dont sweat lunch, I'll buy you a bloody lunch no worries'

'Oh no' he says, 'I cant eat shop bought lunches'

'Didn't I just see you eating a sandwich in the car when I walked past you 10 minutes ago mate?'

'Yes, I got it from the petrol station' he says.

'So, you can eat a sandwich from a Tesco petrol station but I cant buy you lunch at that health food shop over there?' I ask.

'Oh no that's different' he says.

'Fu** it, give me you security passes' and sacked them off.

Worst part is his mate is such a numpty that he chose to quit as well all cause Marcus left his chuffing sandwich at home.!!

I wish to god I were making this up!

I never had anyone quit cause they forgot their lunch before!

'

 

[Dave B]

KNOB HEADS:rofl:

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

It's almost a Monty Python sketch Davey!

 

[Dave B]

I don't have patience for jokers like that

Would be hard not to start shouting abuse at them

 

[Danfire]

My new bloke starts tomorrow...I'm sending him a text reminder not to forget his packed lunch...hope he lasts a bit longer than your workers Green.

 

[Diwrnach]

Backpack on a sack barrow works wellIf no suppliers nearby get a cheap ro from ebay..cheapie payed peanuts for his and won't need much pure if you trad bottoms and whizz round tops wfp

A lot quicker than getting the ladders out

This, I am the same as Cheapie, cost me about £400 to £500 to set up my full WFP system, I only work a couple of days a week though that may be increasing soon, I wouldn't swap back to ladders if you paid me, WFP doesn't have to be expensive, get second hand stuff off enay and could do it for half of what I paid.

In the year of using it I have easily made the cash back and so much better than bloody ladder on and off the roof rack, used to drive me nuts.