Hot water stats good or bad.

[Den]

I have a facelift compact 325l tank if you guys know about these you will know that they are a odd shape. 

Have the immersion element installed under the lid for ease of installation it’s fitted at the bottom to give maximum coverage. 

Switched on for the first time as I’m trying to find the best setting, after 12hours it was 50 degree washed my own windows felt Luke warm, I then drove a 10mile   round trip to do a couple of quotes got back then washed my van it came out at brush end at 40 degrees does this sound right or do I need to up the thermostat? 

Early days yet as still getting used to it but think the usual shape of my tank is limiting water circulation.

Tank is not insulated yet but was little shocked how hot the external tank felt and was very warm  in the back van. 

 

[dazmond]

That's because you lose heat through 100m of hose.....using an 2kw immersion will only ever be a warm water system not a hot system unless you leave it on for 15 hours a day and put a ridiculous amount of insulation around the tank.... 

 

[Crystalalan]

Yeah I reckon things will improve vastly once insulated.

 

[Den]

That's because you lose heat through 100m of hose.....using an 2kw immersion will only ever be a warm water system not a hot system unless you leave it on for 15 hours a day and put a ridiculous amount of insulation around the tank.... 

I have just turned up the thermostat a touch will see what tomorrow brings my tank is smaller than the others windies I have spoken to on Facebook and here if more hours are needed it’s not problem have my own drive? I can still turn the thermostat up more just trying to find a optimum temperature that fits my needs. 

 

[Part Timer]

Switched on for the first time as I’m trying to find the best setting, after 12hours it was 50 degree washed my own windows felt Luke warm,

Once you have heated the reel hose you won't lose as much heat. On the flip side once the outer tank is warm you will be then warming the back of your van. If you run your water for 10 minutes at the start the temperature will be hotter at the brush then when you first started.

As you have said until you've insulated the tank any numbers now aren't really relevant. Once insulated you could always turn it up a notch or 2, just a learning curve mate.

 

[Den]

Once you have heated the reel hose you won't lose as much heat. On the flip side once the outer tank is warm you will be then warming the back of your van. If you run your water for 10 minutes at the start the temperature will be hotter at the brush then when you first started.

As you have said until you've insulated the tank any numbers now aren't really relevant. Once insulated you could always turn it up a notch or 2, just a learning curve mate.

Going to insulate next weekend, today doing quotes washed van and just about to change pre filters on the RO that’s enough for this weekend. 

 

[Pjj]

The problem is the hose reel is loosing heat between jobs you will just be finishing Ojibwa and it will be at maximum temperature get to the next job and it’s start all over again this is why diesel powers systems have return to tank feed to keep the boiler running and hose reels hot 

 

[Davy G]

I wouldn't bother with turning up the heat too much until you've got the insulation done. You will waste a lot of electricity heating an un-insulated tank. I know you said you can't insulate underneath because the tank is bolted down. I'm wondering if you could slacken the bolts and raise and support the tank one end at a time and get some rubber matting underneath. Even if you had to replace the bolts with longer ones of the right strength and quality. Insulate the life out of the tank. Why not? It doesn't eat or drink anything, costs pennies and takes up almost no room. Only when that's done I'd turn the thermostat up fully then back just a smidgen and let it rip!! Doesn't matter if you leave it heating for ages, it's small money on electricity and once the water reaches full temperature it will spend most of the time with the immersion switched off by the thermostat. You won't have any heat at the brush till probably the second job, after it's heated the reel. Then the water at brush will get hotter through the day. It might lose 10c by the end of the day. No great shakes. ??

 

[scottish cleaning service]

The problem is the hose reel is loosing heat between jobs you will just be finishing Ojibwa and it will be at maximum temperature get to the next job and it’s start all over again this is why diesel powers systems have return to tank feed to keep the boiler running and hose reels hot 

So that's why my tank heats up with the second reel plugged in. Hot water is returning to the tank. 

 

[Den]

I wouldn't bother with turning up the heat too much until you've got the insulation done. You will waste a lot of electricity heating an un-insulated tank. I know you said you can't insulate underneath because the tank is bolted down. I'm wondering if you could slacken the bolts and raise and support the tank one end at a time and get some rubber matting underneath. Even if you had to replace the bolts with longer ones of the right strength and quality. Insulate the life out of the tank. Why not? It doesn't eat or drink any thing, costs pennies and takes up almost no room. Only when that's done I'd turn the thermostat up fully then back just a smidgen and let it rip!! Doesn't matter if you leave it heating for ages, it's small money on electricity and once the water reaches full temperature it will spend most of the time with the immersion switched off by the thermostat. You won't have any heat at the brush till probably the second job, after it's heated the reel. Then the water at brush will get hotter through the day. It might lose 10c by the end of the day. No great shakes. ??

Cheers mate you have helped me a lot with this immersion malarkey ? next weekend I’m going to insulate my van roof and tank ?

 

[Davy G]

Cheers mate you have helped me a lot with this immersion malarkey ? next weekend I’m going to insulate my van roof and tank ?

Were all doing our best and we help each other along. ?

 

[Den]

Little update 10 hours on 62 degrees uninsulated tank and van still plenty of thermostat turning power up ?

once insulated probably wind back the thermostat a touch. 

Reckon the 2kw is plenty powerful for my 325l got good advise from @Davy G he has a 650l and only completed (so far half) of what he has 3xplained to me, insulation next weekend.

@dazmondlooks like your guess was wrong with the immersion times I’m getting much bigger temperature in a much shorter time than you stated. I know the temperature last night wasn’t extremely low but I haven’t insulated my van or tank yet to compensate. 

I did honestly think of getting a bigger van and diesel heater but for £50 looks like this is a no brainier for me.

still early days but got a good feeling this is exactly what I need ?thanks again to everyone that has either messaged me or contributed to both of my threads. 

 

[Daniel Perkins]

I have the same tank and setup as you but was never confident enough to go the immersion route incase I did damage.

 

[ched999uk]

Great to hear the 2Kw immersion is doing well.

I have been thinking about the insulation. This may be a bit unusual but I have been thinking to replace the bolts that go through the floor with studding. Then bolt then to sandwich the floor, nut either side, spreader plate under floor - no tank frame yet. Using either 50mm steel box section or 50mm timber make a frame to fit the tank frame so it goes over the floor studding (recesses in to cover the floor nuts). then add 50mm celotex to the space in the middle that the actual tank sits on (according to spec it looks like 50mm celotex can support 9000kg per square meter!!!!) so it should support any tank that you might use. Now put tank and frame back in and bolt down. 

Basically you raising the tank 50mm to add insulation under it.  

Any thoughts ? Good or bad?

 

[Den]

I have the same tank and setup as you but was never confident enough to go the immersion route incase I did damage.

Longest part of the install was slightly filing down the hole, my mate used a 64mm cutter but still had to file around the edges to fit the mechanical flange a 65mm hole cutter would have been spot on. 

Total install was probably 1 hour. 

Forgot to take my tds/temperature meter today to measure brush end but was 36 degrees at 3.15 pm when I got home. 

 

[Den]

Great to hear the 2Kw immersion is doing well.

I have been thinking about the insulation. This may be a bit unusual but I have been thinking to replace the bolts that go through the floor with studding. Then bolt then to sandwich the floor, nut either side, spreader plate under floor - no tank frame yet. Using either 50mm steel box section or 50mm timber make a frame to fit the tank frame so it goes over the floor studding (recesses in to cover the floor nuts). then add 50mm celotex to the space in the middle that the actual tank sits on (according to spec it looks like 50mm celotex can support 9000kg per square meter!!!!) so it should support any tank that you might use. Now put tank and frame back in and bolt down. 

Basically you raising the tank 50mm to add insulation under it.  

Any thoughts ? Good or bad?

Don’t know if it would work ? but I like people that can think out the box thats how things can be improved. 

 

[ched999uk]

Don’t know if it would work ? but I like people that can think out the box thats how things can be improved. 

It should work but not tried it yet so can't say for sure. I am a bit sceptical of celotex supporting 9000kg per square meter without being crushed. I could have been reading spec wrong!!!!! 

I'm also weighing up options on tank frames. Although I do have a decent mig welder it hasn't been used in about 17 years plus I would need new wire, mask and gloves as I have mislaid them over the years, oh and maybe more gas. Then do I trust my welding????

Alternatively I know a company who will build me a frame but not sure on cost yet as don't know what van and therefore what tank......

If I was making a frame or having one made then I might have it made to fit 50mm of insulation?

I have way too much time on my hands thinking about what to do when I am finally let out.....? :delusional: ?

 

[THL4KEL]

Den make an insulation cover around/underneath your reel to reduce heat loss and put double insulation on all delivery pipework in van.

 

[Davy G]

Great to hear the 2Kw immersion is doing well.

I have been thinking about the insulation. This may be a bit unusual but I have been thinking to replace the bolts that go through the floor with studding. Then bolt then to sandwich the floor, nut either side, spreader plate under floor - no tank frame yet. Using either 50mm steel box section or 50mm timber make a frame to fit the tank frame so it goes over the floor studding (recesses in to cover the floor nuts). then add 50mm celotex to the space in the middle that the actual tank sits on (according to spec it looks like 50mm celotex can support 9000kg per square meter!!!!) so it should support any tank that you might use. Now put tank and frame back in and bolt down. 

Basically you raising the tank 50mm to add insulation under it.  

Any thoughts ? Good or bad?

I can't see any reason your idea shouldn't work, though I would be more inclined to use strong steel framing than 2x2" timber. ?

I don't have much insulation under my tank. A treated plywood floor which was already fitted when it was a Canon Hygiene fleet van and on top of that some thin rubber play mat in the position of the tank that was also in there when I bought it. If I was doing it again I'd put slightly thicker rubber matting under the tank but with all the insulation on the top and sides it holds the heat very well. So well that on one of the really cold nights recently the back kit and the poles froze even though the tank was at full temperature from late evening. I like rubber matting for the friction and road sound damping as well as for the insulation properties.

I'm one of the few who doesn't have the tank bolted down. I use lorry ratchet straps crossing the front and the top of the tank and fastened down to the four factory fitted cargo-rings which luckily are in exactly the right position for the tank. My priority is more to hold the tank back than to hold it down. I have a very solid, strong steel bulkhead and triple seating arrangement and I drive carefully and steadily. We all have our own way of doing things. ?

 

[Den]

Den make an insulation cover around/underneath your reel to reduce heat loss and put double insulation on all delivery pipework in van.

Thanks will do ?

 

[Davy G]

It should work but not tried it yet so can't say for sure. I am a bit sceptical of celotex supporting 9000kg per square meter without being crushed. I could have been reading spec wrong!!!!! 

I'm also weighing up options on tank frames. Although I do have a decent mig welder it hasn't been used in about 17 years plus I would need new wire, mask and gloves as I have mislaid them over the years, oh and maybe more gas. Then do I trust my welding????

Alternatively I know a company who will build me a frame but not sure on cost yet as don't know what van and therefore what tank......

If I was making a frame or having one made then I might have it made to fit 50mm of insulation?

I have way too much time on my hands thinking about what to do when I am finally let out.....? :delusional: ?

Haha! You can't beat thinking things through. And thinking them through again. "Do it well, do it once and do it right."

My son used to say to me that I "Over think things."
With all the tweeks, mostly small enough ones that I've done, we're finished work about 2 hours earlier than we used to be, with at least as much work done and at least as much money earned. He doesn't say it now. ?