increasing pressure at the brush head.

[paul alan]

I bumped into a local window cleaner yesterday and bought a 14" ultimate gardiners brush off him that he had but hasn't used.

I sat down last night and added 4 more jets making it 6 in total and I have to say I love it, after using today its a different experience from the usual 12" 2 pencil jets jobbie. Great glass coverage when scrubbing and much more coverage with regards rinsing. I found it did speed things up a little but the problem is the flow, there isn't enough of it!

On hydrophilic it was no problem, on hydrophobic it just lacked that power to push the water down at a good speed. Shame really as if it had a bit more flow it would of been much quicker.

So how do I increase the flow?  

I use 100 meters of reel hose so if I cut that say....in half would that have much of an effect?

I also get the feeling that since I put an analogue flow controller on the pump it seems to restrict full flow a bit, has anyone else found this?

Is there a way to turn the pump up somehow?

 

[Green Pro Clean Ltd]

6 jets is your problem. 4 is more than sufficient. 

 

[paul alan]

6 jets is your problem. 4 is more than sufficient. 

I like the coverage I get from 6, on some windows you don't even have to do any side to side movement.

You get that "rinse bar" effect, I will disconnect two jets tomorrow and see what difference it makes.

 

[spruce]

My first response was to push down a bit harder on the pole, but then I realised you were talking about flow, not pressure. :1f603:

 

[paul alan]

My first response was to push down a bit harder on the pole, but then I realised your were talking about flow, not pressure. :1f603:

hahaha...whats your second response?

 

[Marko067]

The other thing you need to take into consideration when increasing the number of jets is to reduce the jet size say form 2mm to 1.4 or even 1mm. You are getting the same amount of water it's just that you are now sharing it out between 6 jets instead of two.

try these: http://gardinerpolesystems.co.uk/all-products/water-fed-poles/brushes/brush-fittings-jets-sockets-scrapers/brass-pencil-jets-half-jet-size-1-4mm-x2.html

 

[Iron Giant]

You would have to whack the flow right up , I tried 4 jets once with 0.9mm id jets and the flow was just to low for me and ultimately I would end up using quite a bit more water imo .

 

[spruce]

hahaha...whats your second response?

A 5.2 liter Shurflo pump will not deliver 5.2lpm of water at the brush head. It has to pump the water 100 meters down a hose, some of which is invariably coiled. Even if you replaced your pump with a higher output, it will still be restricted by the size of the hose and the resistance of the water flowing through that hose causing turbulence.

A microbore hose is half the volume of a minibore hose which also effects the end result. Cold water is also most difficult to push through the hose than warmer water due to its viscosity.

At 88psi a 15mm straight steel pipe will support a water flow of nearly 17lpm. An 8mm (minibore sized hose) pipe will support a flow of 4.26lpm at 88psi and 6mm pipe (minibore size) will only support 1.68lpm at 88psi. Of course the longer the hose the slower the flow of water through it.

The other point to understand is that water can flow freely through a straight pipe with a smooth inside water fairly quickly. But there comes a point when it starts to become turbulent due to friction. It starts at the sides and this turbulence interrupts the follow and creates a restriction. This can be overcome to a certain extent by increasing the pressure but that uses more energy and probably self defeating.

Replace that smooth pipe with coiled plastic reinforced hose and you will get turbulence much sooner.

A 6mm id hose is fractionally more than half the size of an 8mm hose.

A 3mm jet is a little more than twice the size of a 2mm jet.

A 1.4mm jet is half the size of a 2mm jet.

A 1mm jet is about 1/4 of the size of a 2mm jet.

So if you fitted 1mm jets you could have 8 of them and they would use roughly the same amount of water 2 x 2mm jets would.

.

 

[paul alan]

looks like 4 jets it is then.

 

[Dr Von Samstein]

I just changed from 4 x 1.4mm jets back to 4 x 2mm's. Although the water doesn't jet out as far from the brush head, I feel it gives a better rinse because it's double the water volume

@spruce any idea what the flow rate on 5mm is? Because that's what I use for 100m, feel the brush is still a bit thirsty sometimes

 

[paul alan]

I just changed from 4 x 1.4mm jets back to 4 x 2mm's. Although the water doesn't jet out as far from the brush head, I feel it gives a better rinse because it's double the water volume

@spruce any idea what the flow rate on 5mm is? Because that's what I use for 100m, feel the brush is still a bit thirsty sometimes

agree...don't like them piddly little 1.4mm jets.

out of the 6 jets I have on the brush, 4 are 2mm and the other 2 are 1.4 mm. The 1.4mm ones do seem pathetic in comparison.

Having said that they are on the outside of the brush so maybe they are receiving less flow?

 

[Marko067]

The 1.4mm jets are 'piddly,' as you put it because you have mixed them with 2mm jets. The water is taking  the path of least resistence which is through the 2's leaving the 1.4's weak. To get proper flow through them all four should all be the same size.

 

[spruce]

I just changed from 4 x 1.4mm jets back to 4 x 2mm's. Although the water doesn't jet out as far from the brush head, I feel it gives a better rinse because it's double the water volume

@spruce any idea what the flow rate on 5mm is? Because that's what I use for 100m, feel the brush is still a bit thirsty sometimes

Sorry, I haven't. The owner of the website where I got that info took it down a while back.

 

[Eviestevie]

I have 7 jets on my brush and the flow isn't a issue if you have the right jet size 

the flow of water is the same regardless

 

[Dave B]

I just changed from 4 x 1.4mm jets back to 4 x 2mm's. Although the water doesn't jet out as far from the brush head, I feel it gives a better rinse because it's double the water volume

@spruce any idea what the flow rate on 5mm is? Because that's what I use for 100m, feel the brush is still a bit thirsty sometimes

I use either 100° fans or 4x2mm pencils

Either way I whack the flow up very high and just work quick

 

[paul alan]

The 1.4mm jets are 'piddly,' as you put it because you have mixed them with 2mm jets. The water is taking  the path of least resistence which is through the 2's leaving the 1.4's weak. To get proper flow through them all four should all be the same size.

true!

But in general they are not as good as the 2mm.

 

[paul alan]

I use either 100° fans or 4x2mm pencils

Either way I whack the flow up very high and just work quick

Whenever I try that it just makes a mess?? I cant work out the technique on it.

What gives.

 

[spruce]

Whenever I try that it just makes a mess?? I cant work out the technique on it.

What gives.

Just work to your own strengths and abilities.

If having a high flow rate doesn't work for you then that's ok. At the end of the day its all about providing a customer with a quality service that they are happy with. If your standards are higher than those of your customer, then you will have happy customers.

We tend to over clean. Its become a habit. I work to the pace I'm happy with. I'm too old the keep chasing 'daily cleaning targets.' But I often wonder how much time I waste overcleaning. Out of courtesy we put the brush over bottom flat windows when we clean above them. Honestly, these windows are done halfheartedly. When we check back they always dry perfectly.

Your best testing area is your own windows at home. Do a flash clean, no rinse and see what the results are when the window has dried. Sometimes a job that looks messy isn't after its dried. We also do a council building over a weekend. A row of windows is in the sun (south facing) so they dry quickly. So with no one around they are also make good test windows.

Personally, I don't like fan jets, I prefer pencils. For me there is more control and the flow is more focused. But that doesn't mean that other windies will feel the same as I do. Its all about personal preference.

My advice is to focus on your own efforts. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.

 

[paul alan]

Just work to your own strengths and abilities.

If having a high flow rate doesn't work for you then that's ok. At the end of the day its all about providing a customer with a quality service that they are happy with. If your standards are higher than those of your customer, then you will have happy customers.

We tend to over clean. Its become a habit. I work to the pace I'm happy with. I'm too old the keep chasing 'daily cleaning targets.' But I often wonder how much time I waste overcleaning. Out of courtesy we put the brush over bottom flat windows when we clean above them. Honestly, these windows are done halfheartedly. When we check back they always dry perfectly.

Your best testing area is your own windows at home. Do a flash clean, no rinse and see what the results are when the window has dried. Sometimes a job that looks messy isn't after its dried. We also do a council building over a weekend. A row of windows is in the sun (south facing) so they dry quickly. So with no one around they are also make good test windows.

Personally, I don't like fan jets, I prefer pencils. For me there is more control and the flow is more focused. But that doesn't mean that other windies will feel the same as I do. Its all about personal preference.

My advice is to focus on your own efforts. Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.

I'm starting to find this true!

Its that golden goose of quicker easier more profitable days that keeps tempting me.

I feel like I'm doing a much better job with a reasonable flow and being accurate. This way I don't ever doubt my work or have to.

Still I love to tinker and will probably have to exhaust all the variables until I'm satisfied I found my "way".

And its the old "horses for courses" thing because really all windows/frames are different so some you can blast down and others you have to take more time and care with. I suppose by the time I'm done with all my experimenting all I will have worked out is which is which.

If I can save some time on some windows then that'll add up.

I have offered to clean the windows on our children's school for free this break as I would like to show some gratitude for all they are doing for our children...and...it'll be the perfect test day!

 

[spruce]

I'm starting to find this true!

Its that golden goose of quicker easier more profitable days that keeps tempting me.

I feel like I'm doing a much better job with a reasonable flow and being accurate. This way I don't ever doubt my work or have to.

Still I love to tinker and will probably have to exhaust all the variables until I'm satisfied I found my "way".

And its the old "horses for courses" thing because really all windows/frames are different so some you can blast down and others you have to take more time and care with. I suppose by the time I'm done with all my experimenting all I will have worked out is which is which.

If I can save some time on some windows then that'll add up.

I have offered to clean the windows on our children's school for free this break as I would like to show some gratitude for all they are doing for our children...and...it'll be the perfect test day!

There's a local cleaner who has been window cleaning since he left school.

He told me once that he was looking for a clientel that would be quite happy with a 90% clean. That remark flawed me. He says that a 100% clean is impossible (that's perfect) - the best you could expect to do with care and attention is 95%. Then he said that there isn't much difference in the end result between 90% and a 95% clean, but the extra 5% takes twice as long to achieve.

I've never knowing lowered my standards to accomodate this type of thinking, but I have never forgotten his words. We have a cleaner who rubs a wet Vikan brush up and down the glass with no water flow, then switches the water on for a rinse phase that is no more than a pulse. He doesn't touch the frames or the cill. He's lost dozens of customers over the years but he still has a full work load. Percentage wise I wouldn't give his clean a 10% and his charge is similar to mine.

I keep thinking how long it takes me to clean a window to my standards. Then I realised that it takes longer to clean and flush the bits out from between the frame and the cill than it takes to clean the whole window. I helped a fellow windie once and he never cleaned the gap out. When he finished cleaning he wiped the cills with a cloth and moved on. I saw no difference perceptually between his clean and mine and it took half the time.

We live on the north coast and sea spray is an issue. Every time we clean we have to treat them as new cleans and use lots of rinse water. That takes time.

The mate I helped mentioned earlier works a fair bit inland, and I found I was able to get through the work much quicker. It could be working with fans on inland windows may better suit me than pencils, I just don't know.

 

[paul alan]

There's a local cleaner who has been window cleaning since he left school.

He told me once that he was looking for a clientel that would be quite happy with a 90% clean. That remark flawed me. He says that a 100% clean is impossible (that's perfect) - the best you could expect to do with care and attention is 95%. Then he said that there isn't much difference in the end result between 90% and a 95% clean, but the extra 5% takes twice as long to achieve.

I've never knowing lowered my standards to accomodate this type of thinking, but I have never forgotten his words. We have a cleaner who rubs a wet Vikan brush up and down the glass with no water flow, then switches the water on for a rinse phase that is no more than a pulse. He doesn't touch the frames or the cill. He's lost dozens of customers over the years but he still has a full work load. Percentage wise I wouldn't give his clean a 10% and his charge is similar to mine.

I keep thinking how long it takes me to clean a window to my standards. Then I realised that it takes longer to clean and flush the bits out from between the frame and the cill than it takes to clean the whole window. I helped a fellow windie once and he never cleaned the gap out. When he finished cleaning he wiped the cills with a cloth and moved on. I saw no difference perceptually between his clean and mine and it took half the time.

We live on the north coast and sea spray is an issue. Every time we clean we have to treat them as new cleans and use lots of rinse water. That takes time.

The mate I helped mentioned earlier works a fair bit inland, and I found I was able to get through the work much quicker. It could be working with fans on inland windows may better suit me than pencils, I just don't know.

The thoughts you express are so insightful .

Wisdom is gold.

Intelligent nougat's of information are valuable, obscured by simplicity!