Losing Customers

[Davy G]

Interesting point. My flow rate is limited by backpack but when scrubbing I am currently going vertically across the window then side to side from top to bottom then rinse. This is on 6 weekly repeats. Do you think I might be scrubbing too much?

Hard to say on that @ched999uk. I generally aim to do a simple fast but very important to me, grid pattern.

First agitation stage : Horizontally across and back a couple of times on the top of the frame and top of the glass to loosen the dirt there and start it draining down. A swirl in the top corners as I go to remove spiders. Then across and back using slightly overlapping vertical agitations on the vertical frames and the glass combined.

Then second stage, combined agitation/rinse:
Slightly overlapping descending horizontal agitations which are a combination of agitation and rinse on glass, regardless of whether phobic, phylic or leaded. Brush on edge if I can (swivel) with the action being as a descending wiper blade. Continuing down. Perhaps a bit of a scrub on the horizontal frames to remove spider droppings if needed and ending with a few swipes across the sill to finish with the brush flattened horizontal again (swivel). Which will often entail a bit of quick scrubbing to remove dried in dirt or droppings.

The brush never leaves the work, ie combined horizontal agitation/rinse on the glass (100 degree fans). It's all done like a military drill, with light easy twists of the pole to change the brush from horizontal to vertical orientation.

Once the water is switched on for the first upstairs window, I go smartly across all the top windows on that side, usually the water stays on for all the windows on the same level at each side rather than switching on and off for each window which takes extra time, faffing and energy yet saves very little water if you're working briskly. I simply and smartly move the brush to the next window as I stride across. If I'm really on form I often leave the water on for both levels of the same side if there's not too much walking involved to start the lower level. A good flow rate throughout. This is the advantage afforded by having a substantial van tank capacity.

Get in the rhythm and it's almost like a dance with the pole, brush and leg work combined. The time and energy saved with keeping things precise and fluid is more than might be realised. No pun intended with the fluid.?

 

[Pjj]

Perhaps we differ in that I might take on hesitant customers and you don't. I don't feel I have the luxury of turning down clients at the moment. I'd worry that it would be quite rude aswell to turn down a customer that's just said they would like the service. I suppose my work isn't compact enough from what you are saying. Obviously I'd like it to be but what can I do if one person wants their windows cleaned and the next door doesn't ? I just don't know how you can manage 5-7 full houses in one hour with good results as that's less than 10 minutes per house.Especially with the issue of hydrophobic glass which takes longer. Do you think you could post a video of how you clean a house in under 10 mins as it would certainly be helpful to me and I'm guessing alot of other guys here. Especially with the issue of hydrophobic glass which takes longer. I do feel like I must be in a rubbish area from all your comments.

I am not good with technology so would struggle to post a video but Ime sure @rigmarole will confirm what I have said as he came out with me the other week when one of my guys was in holiday . Compact work is key tk good earnings , it’s your business not the customers you set the rules not them , I understand and know what it’s like building a round but if you take in ones that hesitate you are just perpetuating the problems you are experiencing you will always get ones cancelling as they only want a one off clean , that’s fine if that’s what they want but charge accordingly. Speed per job is also down to experience , and kit set up from pulling up we have poles on the glass in less than 15 seconds on estate type work , 4 weekly work is a maintenance clean , an initial first clean will take longer 2-3 times on average . What set up are you using ? Van mount or back pack trolly ??? You are very welcome to come out with us for a day or two if you would like to see how we work .

 

[Jamesmarshall]

Hard to say on that @ched999uk. I generally aim to do a simple fast but very important to me, grid pattern.

First agitation stage : Horizontally across and back a couple of times on the top of the frame and top of the glass to loosen the dirt there and start it draining down. A swirl in the top corners as I go to remove spiders. Then across and back using slightly overlapping vertical agitations on the vertical frames and the glass combined.

Then second stage, combined agitation/rinse:
Slightly overlapping descending horizontal agitations which are a combination of agitation and rinse on glass, regardless of whether phobic, phylic or leaded. Brush on edge if I can (swivel) with the action being as a descending wiper blade. Continuing down. Perhaps a bit of a scrub on the horizontal frames to remove spider droppings if needed and ending with a few swipes across the sill to finish with the brush flattened horizontal again (swivel). Which will often entail a bit of quick scrubbing to remove dried in dirt or droppings.

The brush never leaves the work, ie combined horizontal agitation/rinse on the glass (100 degree fans). It's all done like a military drill, with light easy twists of the pole to change the brush from horizontal to vertical orientation.

Once the water is switched on for the first upstairs window, I go smartly across all the top windows on that side, usually the water stays on for all the windows on the same level at each side rather than switching on and off for each window which takes extra time, faffing and energy yet saves very little water if you're working briskly. I simply and smartly move the brush to the next window as I stride across. If I'm really on form I often leave the water on for both levels of the same side if there's not too much walking involved to start the lower level. A good flow rate throughout. This is the advantage afforded by having a substantial van tank capacity.

Get in the rhythm and it's almost like a dance with the pole, brush and leg work combined. The time and energy saved with keeping things precise and fluid is more than might be realised. No pun intended with the fluid.?

This to a tee

You are pretty much dancing when working as you should customers have commented before Tonme saying this .Moving your feet to make sure the brush is flat as you move around the bottom windows , as your go down patio doors and from tips of toes to heels from side to side. 
 

im exactly the same as mentioned above too your halfway accross to the next top window when your finishing the one before whip it off leave water on away you go. Moving fluidly , as I’ve said before I have my water on max flow all the time for every window every day, most hydrophilic windows do not need a rinse when doing this if you scrub over twice quickly starting from the top. Especially the rounded new shape pvc frames.

a new build 3 bed semi with no obstacles can be done in 5 mins at top speed if they’re thin windows quite easily . I have an estate with 40-50 houses on I can do 10 houses in an hour pulling hose down road without reeling in or throwing hose over end of ladders on roof 

it’s all about speed and efficiency don’t prat around scrubbing 5-6 times , first clean spray them with weak mix of tfr first to speed the job up and still charge double

Edit 

sorry these may be 2 bed semis not exactly sure but it’s 3 windows and door on front no sides and 4 on back 

I do all tops all the way round cul de sac then all bottoms then top and bottom of each house 

generally I will do all tops windows on the house without retracting pole  - unless they have a tight alley I can’t get full extended pole through then work back round bottoms to front . This is the fastest method IMO 

 

[Chris34]

Perhaps we differ in that I might take on hesitant customers and you don't. I don't feel I have the luxury of turning down clients at the moment. I'd worry that it would be quite rude aswell to turn down a customer that's just said they would like the service. I suppose my work isn't compact enough from what you are saying. Obviously I'd like it to be but what can I do if one person wants their windows cleaned and the next door doesn't ? I just don't know how you can manage 5-7 full houses in one hour with good results as that's less than 10 minutes per house.Especially with the issue of hydrophobic glass which takes longer. Do you think you could post a video of how you clean a house in under 10 mins as it would certainly be helpful to me and I'm guessing alot of other guys here. Especially with the issue of hydrophobic glass which takes longer. I do feel like I must be in a rubbish area from all your comments.

PJJ has been going for donkeys, it's bound to be easier if you've been established for so long as the longer you're established the more the gaps between the houses are filled up.

Personally I wouldn't try and copy the well established guys on here who have house after house.  If you're relatively new you need to take the opposite approach.  I price higher but expect to travel between each house.  As time goes on I get more customers and the gaps between the houses become smaller so less travelling but still the same high rate of pay from each customer.  

It doesn't matter how many houses you clean, what matters is your hourly rate.  I have houses that I can do in 15 minutes but I also have houses with the same number of bedrooms that take 40 minutes.  Some new build council estate work probably would take 10 minutes as the windows are small and the frames are grey with no sills.

So I wouldn't worry about your speed, or how many houses you have in a row.  I'd worry about why you're losing customers.  I've not read the whole thread but have you tried setting up your customers on direct debit?  Most of mine are on dd and I rarely lose any of them.     

 

[Iron Giant]

I'd worry that it would be quite rude aswell to turn down a customer that's just said they would like the service.

It's not rude, it's pointless taking on work in streets or areas that you don't want to be in or have no other work close by unless you intend on canvassing that area,

 granted I've been trading over 21 years and did used to do what you are doing, but for a few years now I've turned down more work than I've took on I won't take on single isolated jobs that aren't worth it or jobs in streets or estates I don't want to be in as I will end up dropping them eventually

 

[Jaygti]

Interesting point. My flow rate is limited by backpack but when scrubbing I am currently going vertically across the window then side to side from top to bottom then rinse. This is on 6 weekly repeats. Do you think I might be scrubbing too much?

Practice on your own home. Do each window a different way. Check the results. 
I bet the windows that you only take a minute on won’t be very different to the ones that take 3 or 4mins. 

As for flow rates- this was a mini game changer for me. I didn’t use much more water but was loads quicker as the rinsing is sort of combined with the scrub. 
 Fitness helps too, as you’ll waste less water if you move quickly.

You have trust that your doing a good job even though it’s taking very little time, that’s where trying it at home , where it doesn’t matter helps. 
 

Davy Gs method is similar to mine, by the way??

 

[dazmond]

I would say to the OP that your doing ok as you ve only been trading for 5 years.....but all rounds(even mine)need little tweaks here and there....

All our rounds are built on shifting sand...

Keep refining

Prices rises every few years

Charge slightly more for new work 

Charge even more for longer frequencies 

Work becomes more efficient over time which will bump up your hourly rate for sure

All the best mate

 

[Bwfc]

I would say to the OP that your doing ok as you ve only been trading for 5 years.....but all rounds(even mine)need little tweaks here and there....

All our rounds are built on shifting sand...

Keep refining

Prices rises every few years

Charge slightly more for new work 

Charge even more for longer frequencies 

Work becomes more efficient over time which will bump up your hourly rate for sure

All the best mate

That's is what is great about window cleaning it's all uphill.

When I look back at what I used to earn it's amazing how far I have come & what can be achieved. From just doing bungalows traditional in a old mini to now having van with full mount bolted. I'm 34 & do part time 3/4 days it's great keep preserving

 

[Davy G]

keep preserving

What!? He's doing jam making, pickling and embalming as well. The man's amazing! ?

Sorry mate, I  couldn't resist picking up on your funny predictive text speed wobble. Apologies again. ?

 

[rafterys2003]

PJJ has been going for donkeys, it's bound to be easier if you've been established for so long as the longer you're established the more the gaps between the houses are filled up.

Personally I wouldn't try and copy the well established guys on here who have house after house.  If you're relatively new you need to take the opposite approach.  I price higher but expect to travel between each house.  As time goes on I get more customers and the gaps between the houses become smaller so less travelling but still the same high rate of pay from each customer.  

It doesn't matter how many houses you clean, what matters is your hourly rate.  I have houses that I can do in 15 minutes but I also have houses with the same number of bedrooms that take 40 minutes.  Some new build council estate work probably would take 10 minutes as the windows are small and the frames are grey with no sills.

So I wouldn't worry about your speed, or how many houses you have in a row.  I'd worry about why you're losing customers.  I've not read the whole thread but have you tried setting up your customers on direct debit?  Most of mine are on dd and I rarely lose any of them.     

Im losing them because generally when I gain one I tell them I only offer a 4 weekly service frequency which they accept. Then a few months later or even the next month in some cases they either start cancelling and saying "oh can you leave me until next time" or they say "can't I have them done every 2 months because they don't need cleaning that often" or they say can I leave it for the winter. It would seem they just want them cleaned whenever they feel like it but the annoying thing for me is when I offer the 4 week service they're all for it but must be secretly thinking I'll just say yes now and cancel when he's cleaned them. This is what it makes me think anyway and it makes me very angry with these people but I'm not sure if it's justified or not. Like I said though I'm going to offer an 8 week service now so hopefully that will help. I'm guessing it's just going to take time to fill in the gaps and make the round more compact and I will admit it is alot more compact now than when I started. I'm going to try this flow rate increase idea aswell to see if that speeds things up. I have already increased flow once but perhaps not enough.

 

[steve garwood]

Im losing them because generally when I gain one I tell them I only offer a 4 weekly service frequency which they accept. Then a few months later or even the next month in some cases they either start cancelling and saying "oh can you leave me until next time" or they say "can't I have them done every 2 months because they don't need cleaning that often" or they say can I leave it for the winter. It would seem they just want them cleaned whenever they feel like it but the annoying thing for me is when I offer the 4 week service they're all for it but must be secretly thinking I'll just say yes now and cancel when he's cleaned them. This is what it makes me think anyway and it makes me very angry with these people but I'm not sure if it's justified or not. Like I said though I'm going to offer an 8 week service now so hopefully that will help. I'm guessing it's just going to take time to fill in the gaps and make the round more compact and I will admit it is alot more compact now than when I started. I'm going to try this flow rate increase idea aswell to see if that speeds things up. I have already increased flow once but perhaps not enough.

This happened to me when I first started many years ago. I built the round up to eight weeks and that gap was to much.

Got it to six weeks, and that’s been bang on ???‍?

 

[Jonny 67]

Im losing them because generally when I gain one I tell them I only offer a 4 weekly service frequency which they accept. Then a few months later or even the next month in some cases they either start cancelling and saying "oh can you leave me until next time" or they say "can't I have them done every 2 months because they don't need cleaning that often" or they say can I leave it for the winter. It would seem they just want them cleaned whenever they feel like it but the annoying thing for me is when I offer the 4 week service they're all for it but must be secretly thinking I'll just say yes now and cancel when he's cleaned them. This is what it makes me think anyway and it makes me very angry with these people but I'm not sure if it's justified or not. Like I said though I'm going to offer an 8 week service now so hopefully that will help. I'm guessing it's just going to take time to fill in the gaps and make the round more compact and I will admit it is alot more compact now than when I started. I'm going to try this flow rate increase idea aswell to see if that speeds things up. I have already increased flow once but perhaps not enough.

I don't know the areas that you're working in, but when I started I went for estate work and compact terraced areas. I got lots of customers, and the work started dropping off. I lost 66% of my start up work, because they were the wrong type of clients. I still have the 33% of initial customers, as they stayed loyal to me in the beginning. If this is happening to you, then I think you need to look at your client base. If it's not your client base, then something really is amiss. Of those 66% that dropped off, nothing would have stopped them doing that, 8 weekly, or 12 weekly, they have different priorities, and I found that regular window cleaning wasn't a priority. If you're doing a good job, presentable and likeable, then I suspect you're dealing with clients of the 66% variety  mentioned above...

 

[Jamesmarshall]

Im losing them because generally when I gain one I tell them I only offer a 4 weekly service frequency which they accept. Then a few months later or even the next month in some cases they either start cancelling and saying "oh can you leave me until next time" or they say "can't I have them done every 2 months because they don't need cleaning that often" or they say can I leave it for the winter. It would seem they just want them cleaned whenever they feel like it but the annoying thing for me is when I offer the 4 week service they're all for it but must be secretly thinking I'll just say yes now and cancel when he's cleaned them. This is what it makes me think anyway and it makes me very angry with these people but I'm not sure if it's justified or not. Like I said though I'm going to offer an 8 week service now so hopefully that will help. I'm guessing it's just going to take time to fill in the gaps and make the round more compact and I will admit it is alot more compact now than when I started. I'm going to try this flow rate increase idea aswell to see if that speeds things up. I have already increased flow once but perhaps not enough.

Charge for first cleans generally double the price of a normal clean maybe even more . You can tell if they are gonna pull a fast one usually if the windows are absolutely filthy and they want it monthly why haven’t they had them done for the last 5 years ?

 

[Chris34]

Im losing them because generally when I gain one I tell them I only offer a 4 weekly service frequency which they accept. Then a few months later or even the next month in some cases they either start cancelling and saying "oh can you leave me until next time" or they say "can't I have them done every 2 months because they don't need cleaning that often" or they say can I leave it for the winter. It would seem they just want them cleaned whenever they feel like it but the annoying thing for me is when I offer the 4 week service they're all for it but must be secretly thinking I'll just say yes now and cancel when he's cleaned them. This is what it makes me think anyway and it makes me very angry with these people but I'm not sure if it's justified or not. Like I said though I'm going to offer an 8 week service now so hopefully that will help. I'm guessing it's just going to take time to fill in the gaps and make the round more compact and I will admit it is alot more compact now than when I started. I'm going to try this flow rate increase idea aswell to see if that speeds things up. I have already increased flow once but perhaps not enough.

Charging double on first cleans definitely seems to work.  It's only if I'm taking on someone with relatively new windows that I won't charge double.  It's sounds odd, but it's true what others say on here, charging double seems to get rid of those that are not serious.  Even the ones who I've charged 50 percent more are more troublesome customers than the ones I've charged double.

One thing I state when quoting is that when I come round to clean at 4 weeks, the windows will not look like they need cleaning.  I say the idea is to have your windows looking immaculate all the time and I'm actually maintaining that clean look.  I tell them that other than a bird splat or something like that then they will always seem clean.  

I offer 4 week and 8 week.  Some have asked for longer frequencies on quotation but again, they have turned out to be the ones who aren't really interested.  Nobody has taken up a 12 week clean after receiving the quote.

 

[Iron Giant]

Charge for first cleans generally double the price of a normal clean maybe even more . You can tell if they are gonna pull a fast one usually if the windows are absolutely filthy and they want it monthly why haven’t they had them done for the last 5 years ?

There will always be exceptions though, some people are penny pinching whilst they spend a few years renovating their houses, I have had some custys over 10 years that put off having the windows cleaned for years,

I did a job today that I had underestimated and the charge ideally should have been more than double but at almost £50 for a first clean asking anymore than double would have been pushing it I feel. 

 

[Jamesmarshall]

There will always be exceptions though, some people are penny pinching whilst they spend a few years renovating their houses, I have had some custys over 10 years that put off having the windows cleaned for years,

I did a job today that I had underestimated and the charge ideally should have been more than double but at almost £50 for a first clean asking anymore than double would have been pushing it I feel. 

Yes but still charge for a first clean it’s avoids you doing work that’s gonna take twice as long. I’ve done it too many times before that it ain’t happening again, we price per hour usually and if it’s gonna take longer then it needs to be more 

yes there is exceptions but for the most part they’re not after a regular clean. You can usually tell they’re intentions after speaking to them for a couple of minutes too

 

[Iron Giant]

Yes but still charge for a first clean it’s avoids you doing work that’s gonna take twice as long. I’ve done it too many times before that it ain’t happening again, we price per hour usually and if it’s gonna take longer then it needs to be more 

yes there is exceptions but for the most part they’re not after a regular clean. You can usually tell they’re intentions after speaking to them for a couple of minutes too

I always charge double for first cleans and on this job I did but it just goes to show even after all these years I can sometimes misjudged a job, If I said £75 there is no way I would have got the job, thankfully moving forward the job will be much easier, the backs were bad due to a large tree in the garden, I have plenty of work in the same street also so I'll be making a decent wedge with there immediate neighbours without moving the van. 

 

[spruce]

Interesting point. My flow rate is limited by backpack but when scrubbing I am currently going vertically across the window then side to side from top to bottom then rinse. This is on 6 weekly repeats. Do you think I might be scrubbing too much?

This to a tee

You are pretty much dancing when working as you should customers have commented before Tonme saying this .Moving your feet to make sure the brush is flat as you move around the bottom windows , as your go down patio doors and from tips of toes to heels from side to side. 
 

im exactly the same as mentioned above too your halfway accross to the next top window when your finishing the one before whip it off leave water on away you go. Moving fluidly , as I’ve said before I have my water on max flow all the time for every window every day, most hydrophilic windows do not need a rinse when doing this if you scrub over twice quickly starting from the top. Especially the rounded new shape pvc frames.

a new build 3 bed semi with no obstacles can be done in 5 mins at top speed if they’re thin windows quite easily . I have an estate with 40-50 houses on I can do 10 houses in an hour pulling hose down road without reeling in or throwing hose over end of ladders on roof 

it’s all about speed and efficiency don’t prat around scrubbing 5-6 times , first clean spray them with weak mix of tfr first to speed the job up and still charge double

Edit 

sorry these may be 2 bed semis not exactly sure but it’s 3 windows and door on front no sides and 4 on back 

I do all tops all the way round cul de sac then all bottoms then top and bottom of each house 

generally I will do all tops windows on the house without retracting pole  - unless they have a tight alley I can’t get full extended pole through then work back round bottoms to front . This is the fastest method IMO 

I agree with @Jamesmarshall. But water over consumption is always a major issue with a backpack. When using my son's backpack ( it's mine but he insisted I buy one for him to use), I tend to use less water overall with a slightly higher flow rate. I don't use the backpack much btw.

However, I still believe that you need more time to develop your cleaning technique @ched999ukbefore you start to think about speeding up and reducing your cleaning time.

We had a Children's centre to clean over a weekend when there was no one about. I had keys to the outside security gates. We did it once a month for 12 years until the council decided to do it themselves to save money. There was a row of windows that always got the mid morning to afternoon sun even in winter (when the sun shone.) I used that row of windows to experiment on.

I could try different cleaning methods on this row as the windows would dry while I was doing the rest of the building and I could inspect them. I would reclean them if necessary.

Do I need to wash each window with 2 passes of the brush, or can I get away with one pass?

Do I bother to do a separate rinse after scrubbing each window with a higher water flow?

If I rinse, do I rinse with the brush off the glass, or can I rinse with the brush head on the glass?

Pencil jets or fan jets?

Flocked or monofilament brush?

High, medium or low flow rate?

What about a swivel?

I found in our area on the North Sea Coast, I need 2 passes with the brush to ensure a good clean. I also need to rinse more to ensure I flush away any salt sea residue.

I also found that I needed to inspect the glass of the window before I started to clean it. This saves me time as I don't waste time over cleaning. I pay attention to any bird strikes first working from the bottom of the glass upward before washing and rinsing. I still prefer pencil jets, and I'm not into swivels.

I helped a fellow windie many years ago on his round which was well inland. His Vito van was off the road due to a broken fuel injector. His round wasn't affected by the salt sea air and was much easier to clean. What applies to me won't apply to every window cleaner.

I still feel the biggest waste of time for me is getting rid of all the muck in the gap between the sill and the window frame. I carry around a claw brush to help me, but I reckon I spend more time on cleaning out the gap than on the whole window itself. The cleaner I helped didn't flush the gap out, he just wiped the sill with a towel at the end. I wasn't happy about doing that, but it certainly sped up my cleaning time.

My suggestion @ched999ukis to count off the seconds as you clean and rinse a window (one thousand and one, one thousand and two, etc.) If it takes you 90 seconds to clean and rinse a window then try to reduce it to 75 seconds. Once you get comfortable with that then reduce the time a bit more. Just small chunks at a time. I have always believed that if you are new then taking longer to do a first, second and even a third clean will give the customer confidence that you are doing a good job. This is important for customer retention.

When we started wfp we only had those heavy brick Vikan ovals with flocked bristles. We found that rinsing off the glass was the best way with those brushes. We haven't used them for years now, but I still find rinsing off the best way unless I'm at 35' to 40'.

 

[spruce]

Charging double on first cleans definitely seems to work.  It's only if I'm taking on someone with relatively new windows that I won't charge double.  It's sounds odd, but it's true what others say on here, charging double seems to get rid of those that are not serious.  Even the ones who I've charged 50 percent more are more troublesome customers than the ones I've charged double.

One thing I state when quoting is that when I come round to clean at 4 weeks, the windows will not look like they need cleaning.  I say the idea is to have your windows looking immaculate all the time and I'm actually maintaining that clean look.  I tell them that other than a bird splat or something like that then they will always seem clean.  

I offer 4 week and 8 week.  Some have asked for longer frequencies on quotation but again, they have turned out to be the ones who aren't really interested.  Nobody has taken up a 12 week clean after receiving the quote.

In the early days of wfp I made a passing comment to an old customer (she past away many years ago now)  after I had cleaned her windows that her windows weren't that dirty this time. She glared at me for a moment and said; "young man, (I knew she was lying as I wasn't young even back then ?), I pay you to keep my windows clean, not clean them when they are dirty." I've never forgotten that and have used it numerous times when I've had the old 'leave it this time as the windows aren't dirty' excuse.

We purchased a trad round and converted it to wfp. That round was on a 2 weekly schedule, but we soon got 'leave it this time as the windows are still clean' sob story. We eventually found a 6 weekly schedule best; it's either 6 or 12 weeks. We have some big 12 week jobs and we have a day a month doing 4 weekly cleans; some commercial and linked in residential. But I don't offer 4 weeks as an option.

 

[ched999uk]

I agree with @Jamesmarshall. But water over consumption is always a major issue with a backpack. When using my son's backpack ( it's mine but he insisted I buy one for him to use), I tend to use less water overall with a slightly higher flow rate. I don't use the backpack much btw.

However, I still believe that you need more time to develop your cleaning technique @ched999ukbefore you start to think about speeding up and reducing your cleaning time.

We had a Children's centre to clean over a weekend when there was no one about. I had keys to the outside security gates. We did it once a month for 12 years until the council decided to do it themselves to save money. There was a row of windows that always got the mid morning to afternoon sun even in winter (when the sun shone.) I used that row of windows to experiment on.

I could try different cleaning methods on this row as the windows would dry while I was doing the rest of the building and I could inspect them. I would reclean them if necessary.

Do I need to wash each window with 2 passes of the brush, or can I get away with one pass?

Do I bother to do a separate rinse after scrubbing each window with a higher water flow?

If I rinse, do I rinse with the brush off the glass, or can I rinse with the brush head on the glass?

Pencil jets or fan jets?

Flocked or monofilament brush?

High, medium or low flow rate?

What about a swivel?

I found in our area on the North Sea Coast, I need 2 passes with the brush to ensure a good clean. I also need to rinse more to ensure I flush away any salt sea residue.

I also found that I needed to inspect the glass of the window before I started to clean it. This saves me time as I don't waste time over cleaning. I pay attention to any bird strikes first working from the bottom of the glass upward before washing and rinsing. I still prefer pencil jets, and I'm not into swivels.

I helped a fellow windie many years ago on his round which was well inland. His Vito van was off the road due to a broken fuel injector. His round wasn't affected by the salt sea air and was much easier to clean. What applies to me won't apply to every window cleaner.

I still feel the biggest waste of time for me is getting rid of all the muck in the gap between the sill and the window frame. I carry around a claw brush to help me, but I reckon I spend more time on cleaning out the gap than on the whole window itself. The cleaner I helped didn't flush the gap out, he just wiped the sill with a towel at the end. I wasn't happy about doing that, but it certainly sped up my cleaning time.

My suggestion @ched999ukis to count off the seconds as you clean and rinse a window (one thousand and one, one thousand and two, etc.) If it takes you 90 seconds to clean and rinse a window then try to reduce it to 75 seconds. Once you get comfortable with that then reduce the time a bit more. Just small chunks at a time. I have always believed that if you are new then taking longer to do a first, second and even a third clean will give the customer confidence that you are doing a good job. This is important for customer retention.

When we started wfp we only had those heavy brick Vikan ovals with flocked bristles. We found that rinsing off the glass was the best way with those brushes. We haven't used them for years now, but I still find rinsing off the best way unless I'm at 35' to 40'.

Thanks so much for taking the time to type all that and pass on your knowledge. You are quite right that quality must come first. I too am near the sea but so far closest to prom is about 150 meters and the guest house is parallel to prom so salt not too bad. 

I am getting a bit better with speed but more to do with positioning the trolley, brush angle, hose route etc.

I am still working on standardising my method. As at moment I do find myself rinsing twice sometimes as I'm not +ve I rinsed first time, mainly on windows with top openers, start at top left, clean and rinse opener then go on to rest of window to come back to pane below the opener, but then forget that I had rinsed the top opener so do it again ?  I think it's just I need to get into a rhythm and a routine so I have a procedure. 

As for counting while doing windows - not sure I can multi task very well to count and clean ? I have recently started looking at time when arriving and again when departing a job to see how long it takes me but not clock watching while doing the job. 

I guess I am getting a bit hung up when I read posts where people are saying 4 x 'standard' 3 bed semi in an hour! I think I am doing well if it takes me 40 mins ?. I need to concentrate on walking before attempting to jog let alone run ? 

Once again thanks so much for taking the time to assist.

 

[Pjj]

Thanks so much for taking the time to type all that and pass on your knowledge. You are quite right that quality must come first. I too am near the sea but so far closest to prom is about 150 meters and the guest house is parallel to prom so salt not too bad. 

I am getting a bit better with speed but more to do with positioning the trolley, brush angle, hose route etc.

I am still working on standardising my method. As at moment I do find myself rinsing twice sometimes as I'm not +ve I rinsed first time, mainly on windows with top openers, start at top left, clean and rinse opener then go on to rest of window to come back to pane below the opener, but then forget that I had rinsed the top opener so do it again ?  I think it's just I need to get into a rhythm and a routine so I have a procedure. 

As for counting while doing windows - not sure I can multi task very well to count and clean ? I have recently started looking at time when arriving and again when departing a job to see how long it takes me but not clock watching while doing the job. 

I guess I am getting a bit hung up when I read posts where people are saying 4 x 'standard' 3 bed semi in an hour! I think I am doing well if it takes me 40 mins ?. I need to concentrate on walking before attempting to jog let alone run ? 

Once again thanks so much for taking the time to assist.

Without wishing to be rude using a trolly will be much slower than using a van mount with a constant supply of water , returning to the van/car to change barrels does  take quite a bit of time ,again speed comes with experience and practice ,I still feel that to be completely competent takes 12 months  doing the job , I know some will poo poo this and say after a couple of days you can clean a window and that’s true but there is a lot more to cleaning a window Than just the glass and a different technique is needed for different types of windows , sash windows are different to normal windows , vents in some frames  are different and need a different approach to others and so the list goes on this all takes time to learn through trial and error . Also a big factor in speed and quality of work is the individual doing the job some are naturally fast at what ever they do others are much slower , this is very unlikely to alter with experience, my staff all differ in volume of work even doing the exact same houses my guys do 4-7 3 bed semis per hour and the houses are all exactly the same , I keep a record of daily work done by all and some are a lot more productive per month than others but provided the jobs done ok and no complaints that’s all Ime interested in .