Pump battery issues

[pmbwindowcleaners]

our pump battery starts strong and as the day goes on ps comes up on the pump control and we have to run the van to get a good waterfowl 

Any ideas 

 

[tonyapc]

our pump battery starts strong and as the day goes on ps comes up on the pump control and we have to run the van to get a good waterfowl 

Any ideas 

Sounds like the pump battery is on the way out,

we did away with our pump battery over 6 Yrs ago & run straight from the main van battery, just wire it direct, make sure you put in line fuses between battery & pump,

I run 2 pumps on my van for 2-3 hrs Without the engine running never had a problem , I’m still on the original van battery, the battery charges up again once your engine is running, good luck

 

[Stevieboy]

Sounds like the pump battery is on the way out,

we did away with our pump battery over 6 Yrs ago & run straight from the main van battery, just wire it direct, make sure you put in line fuses between battery & pump,

I run 2 pumps on my van for 2-3 hrs Without the engine running never had a problem , I’m still on the original van battery, the battery charges up again once your engine is running, good luck

PS error code is pressure. Nothing to do with battery. This would be BAT error code 

 

[spruce]

Sounds like the pump battery is on the way out,

we did away with our pump battery over 6 Yrs ago & run straight from the main van battery, just wire it direct, make sure you put in line fuses between battery & pump,

I run 2 pumps on my van for 2-3 hrs Without the engine running never had a problem , I’m still on the original van battery, the battery charges up again once your engine is running, good luck

Some people can get away with doing this and some people can't using the same model van.

It very much depends on a window cleaner's round, where its situated, the traffic in the local area and what private use the van has. We have found an idling engine in traffic gives the battery more chance to recharge than driving down an empty motorway.

My son used a Peugeot Partner van and his starter battery lasted 4 days before it was flat as he did very little mileage. Another window cleaner in the south used the identical van and he never had a flat battery. In time we had to replace son's starter battery. I tried the same experiment and his battery again went flat after 4 days. When son in law joined us we used his starter battery in his Ford Transit Connect to power the pump. He traveled a further distance to work and back home but again his battery was flat in a week and we fitted a leisure battery.

I agree with you that the O/P's battery has lost capacity and needs replacing. One of the biggest problems with lead acid batteries, both starter and leisure, is that the fuller they get the slower they will accept a charge.

An Australian motorhome magazine once stated that it would take 750km for a motorhome to fully recharge a flat 110amp leisure battery. So its imperative that we top up our leisure batteries every couple of days by bench charging them even although we run a split charge relay.

 

[spruce]

PS error code is pressure. Nothing to do with battery. This would be BAT error code 

You make a good point regarding PS.

But the very fact that they have to run the van's engine to get the pump to work properly suggested to @tonyapc that it was a battery issue. I think the PS is a 'red herring' and isn't part of the problem. If @pmbwindowcleaners has a controller that he was able to deactivate the low battery voltage cutout (10.4V) then the only thing left is the pump's pressure switch.

We have had to do run the van's engine ourselves to finish a job and replacing the battery solved the issue.

 

[Stevieboy]

You make a good point regarding PS.

But the very fact that they have to run the van's engine to get the pump to work properly suggested to @tonyapc that it was a battery issue. I think the PS is a 'red herring' and isn't part of the problem. If @pmbwindowcleaners has a controller that he was able to deactivate the low battery voltage cutout (10.4V) then the only thing left is the pump's pressure switch.

We have had to do run the van's engine ourselves to finish a job and replacing the battery solved the issue.

I get you spruce but surely if his voltage dropped below 11v then error code BAT would flash up as well?? Have they got the pump calibration correct or is the pressure building all day to a certain point then the controller is detecting pressure switch activation?

 

[spruce]

I get you spruce but surely if his voltage dropped below 11v then error code BAT would flash up as well?? Have they got the pump calibration correct or is the pressure building all day to a certain point then the controller is detecting pressure switch activation?

I would imagine that deactivating the low voltage cutout would deactivate the Bat warning as well. Its the DE setting that I would question as that is related to the PS warning. But the very fact that running the engine solves the pumping issues points to battery failure in my books.

Maybe the DE setting is incorrect and its the pressure switch that is controlling the pump to begin with.

I don't know enough about the workings of these controllers so lets include @Ian Sheppard in this discussion and see what he says. He and his team are the ultimate authority.

 

[Ian Sheppard]

I would imagine that deactivating the low voltage cutout would deactivate the Bat warning as well. Its the DE setting that I would question as that is related to the PS warning. But the very fact that running the engine solves the pumping issues points to battery failure in my books.

Maybe the DE setting is incorrect and its the pressure switch that is controlling the pump to begin with.

I don't know enough about the workings of these controllers so lets include @Ian Sheppard in this discussion and see what he says. He and his team are the ultimate authority.

Hi Tony. I would agree that the fact you need to run the engine to clear the PS indicates that the battery is the source of the problem as the alternator is now effectively driving the pump. Can I ask what is the voltage shown on the controller with the engine Off and 2. With the engine On. Also how old is the battery?

PS is used to indicate the pump pressure switch has opened under high pressure or if there is a cable fault in both these instances the pump goes open circuit and no current is drawn. So 99.9% of the time PS would mean one of these

In testing with a worn battery in the past I have seen occasions where the battery voltage collapses as it comes under load. This sudden drop can mean there is so little current the pump motor drops out of circuit briefly which to the controller can appear as if the pressure switch has opened and the controller may show PS rather than Bat

As suggested you could over ride the controller low battery protection, But if the battery is in poor condition and not holding a charge the voltage is still going to collapse as the battery comes under load from the pump. A pump needs a minimum of 9V just to turn. In this case Its likely the battery voltage is falling below even that level.

Another suggestion would be to check the Split relay and fuses to ensure these are all operating correctly.

 

[spruce]

Hi Tony. I would agree that the fact you need to run the engine to clear the PS indicates that the battery is the source of the problem as the alternator is now effectively driving the pump. Can I ask what is the voltage shown on the controller with the engine Off and 2. With the engine On. Also how old is the battery?

PS is used to indicate the pump pressure switch has opened under high pressure or if there is a cable fault in both these instances the pump goes open circuit and no current is drawn. So 99.9% of the time PS would mean one of these

In testing with a worn battery in the past I have seen occasions where the battery voltage collapses as it comes under load. This sudden drop can mean there is so little current the pump motor drops out of circuit briefly which to the controller can appear as if the pressure switch has opened and the controller may show PS rather than Bat

As suggested you could over ride the controller low battery protection, But if the battery is in poor condition and not holding a charge the voltage is still going to collapse as the battery comes under load from the pump. A pump needs a minimum of 9V just to turn. In this case Its likely the battery voltage is falling below even that level.

Another suggestion would be to check the Split relay and fuses to ensure these are all operating correctly.

The fact that his split charge relay is coming to the rescue would indicate to me that its working.

In our experience alternator charging alone is often not enough. A battery that isn't sufficiently charged is going to fail prematurely. This is why we have always auxillary charged our leisure batteries every night in winter and every second night in summer even although we have a SCR. We just don't do enough mileage for the alternator to put back what we have taken during the day.

 

[Davy G]

My gut feeling is the same as Tony, Spruce and Ian, that the most likely problem is a flat or failed battery. Often we look for and expect solutions to be more complex than they actually are. There's a name for it but I can't think of it at the moment.

It could be as has been pointed out, that the battery is simply flat. It could be that you need a new battery. FYI, I use a Durite SCR and a Numax leisure battery Xv35mf 120amp, sealed and maintenance free.

I actually use 2 leisure batteries linked together in parallel as per jump leads. This combines the ampage but keeps the voltage at 12v so no damage is done to the electrical equipment. I've been lucky in that I've never needed to bench-charge. I can only think that this is because the two large leisure batteries combined add up to a very large reservoir of power. My voltage readings are usually about 12.2-12.7 with the engine off, about 13.4v-14v with engine running (I've just confirmed this with a multimeter). We use two pumps, one in the side door work station and the other at the back door work station.

Good luck.