? Pure water - Possibly an issue for me?

[Nick Mitton]

Using double di does definitely work. It depends a lot on your pricing and how much water you use whether it's a long term viable option. My water fluctuates between 90 and 180 and I only use double DI, but that's because of not having storage space. The higher the tap tds is the more inconvenient it is. Resin calculators such as the grippatank one, I have found to be fairly accurate for estimating cost

Hi, I'm looking to just use double di. My Tds is around 150 so simler to you. How much water can you produce before changing the  resin in one of the vessels? Also is it best to turn water on full or slow? 

Thanks in advance 

 

[Pjj]

Hi, I'm looking to just use double di. My Tds is around 150 so simler to you. How much water can you produce before changing the  resin in one of the vessels? Also is it best to turn water on full or slow? 

Thanks in advance 

150 is a bit high for DI you would be better off with an RO 

 

[Nick Mitton]

150 is a bit high for DI you would be better off with an RO 

Yeah I know it's not the cheapest option, just most convenient....No wast to get rid of plus on meter. Plus only use 500-600L a week. Currently paying £12 a week off another window cleaner. 

 

[Part Timer]

Yeah I know it's not the cheapest option, just most convenient....No wast to get rid of plus on meter. Plus only use 500-600L a week. Currently paying £12 a week off another window cleaner. 

That's only 2p a litre, probably not any cheaper going double Di. There is a resin calculator on one of the main suppliers, I think Grippa, that would tell you how much it would roughly cost. Best to run water slowly through Di

 

[CMcB]

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/resin_calculator

I've used this and found it fairly accurate for estimating costs. 

I reckon with the figures you've mentioned you'd be getting a week and a half to 2 weeks out of a 10L resin vessel. In terms of cost, you'll probably be paying the exact same in resin as your paying the other window cleaner, so my thoughts would be its just working out what is more convenient for you. 

It's a pain when the water is at the higher end of the scale and I need to change the resin weekly! But on the other hand I don't need to travel each day just to fill up

 

[Nick Mitton]

https://www.grippatank.co.uk/resin_calculator

I've used this and found it fairly accurate for estimating costs. 

I reckon with the figures you've mentioned you'd be getting a week and a half to 2 weeks out of a 10L resin vessel. In terms of cost, you'll probably be paying the exact same in resin as your paying the other window cleaner, so my thoughts would be its just working out what is more convenient for you. 

It's a pain when the water is at the higher end of the scale and I need to change the resin weekly! But on the other hand I don't need to travel each day just to fill up

Had a look at the calculater, only does it for 1 Di vessel not 2?. That said if I have to keep flow rate from mains tap down will defeat part of reason I was looking at double di! 

Based on my usage how often would I be looking at changing filters n resin on an RO set up? 

 

[CMcB]

Had a look at the calculater, only does it for 1 Di vessel not 2?. That said if I have to keep flow rate from mains tap down will defeat part of reason I was looking at double di! 

Based on my usage how often would I be looking at changing filters n resin on an RO set up? 

Not sure why it's not letting you change the size of the di vessel. You can change it to any litre..... but the price per litre doesn't change anyway. Just how often you change the resin.

My guess at that would be, sediment filter every 6 weeks, carbon filter every 20 weeks, and ro membrane every couple of years or possibly more. Of course that depends on the filters and membrane you buy. An ro will be a lot cheaper

 

[spruce]

Had a look at the calculater, only does it for 1 Di vessel not 2?. That said if I have to keep flow rate from mains tap down will defeat part of reason I was looking at double di! 

Based on my usage how often would I be looking at changing filters n resin on an RO set up? 

You will be better off than the calculator indicates as you will be totally exhausting the resin in each di vessel. When using a single vessel I would be replacing resin when the tds meter showed 2 or possibly 3 at the most.

 

[spruce]

In all due honestly @Nick Mittonyou could experiment with it yourself. In the early wfp days we didn't have much information available, so a lot of new ideas came from windies experimenting with their own ideas.

As long as you set parameters for your experiment and have an accurate idea how much pure water you do actually use then it would be helpful to you and any others you share the results with.

For example; there has been much discussion over the years as to what the highest tds is that you can clean windows with. Some have said 10 others say they have no issue at a higher amount.

I did an experiment using pure water in a backpack diluted with tap water on our lounge windows in low light. On a perfectly clean window I found I could see tiny spots on the window in low light when looking from the inside out using pure at 5ppm. I very much doubt a customer would look that closely and find those spots, but for me, this is the reason I wouldn't let my water go above 3ppm before changing resin.

At one time there were several suppliers with resin calculators on their websites. They each read differently. You will never get a totally accurate figure as resins from different suppliers can perform differently. At best resin calculators are a guesstimate.

I have found the Tulsion MB115 resin works well in the area we live in. However, there are areas when MB111 works better. It's all down to the composition of the water in your area.

Many years ago @doug atkinsonwrote this regarding Tulsion MB115 resin.

It’s one of those things that does intrigue me. One customer buys MB-111 in bulk as finds this works better with him. The difference between 115 is the cation resin which is of lower grade but has a lower exchange capacity.

As you are aware water structure can change so the balance of anions and cations could also change. MB-115 is a ratio of 1.5 with the anion side more loaded. If your water structure was 1.3/5 anion loaded then both resins would deplete at the same time. If all of a sudden you had an imbalance and water became 1/1 then the cation would deplete first.

Cation ions are the most common cause of spotting as they are minerals like calcium, lead etc.. which I know are high in water in Scotland. You can tell this where people have their hose tap's by the kitchen windows you will see the windows etched with hard water stains.

If there was an instrument on the market that could tell you what content your water is then you would be onto a winner as you could have the right mix. I have been trying some mixes and have been surprised at some results.

Doug Atkinson, www.daqua.co.uk

 

[Nick Mitton]

Not sure why it's not letting you change the size of the di vessel. You can change it to any litre..... but the price per litre doesn't change anyway. Just how often you change the resin.

My guess at that would be, sediment filter every 6 weeks, carbon filter every 20 weeks, and ro membrane every couple of years or possibly more. Of course that depends on the filters and membrane you buy. An ro will be a lot cheaper

Not size of vessel, 2 vessels connected, calculated on only 1 vessel. 

 

[CMcB]

Not size of vessel, 2 vessels connected, calculated on only 1 vessel. 

Ah ok, misread your previous message. Sorry. Yeah theres no resin calculators that show double di that I've found. I just view the calculator as approx cost, then with double di you make some savings on your approx cost. 

As @spruce said, trying yourself will give you the most accurate costs, as water changes per area. 

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Hi guys,

I need some advice. 

Im the guy who is currently saving for a WFP trolley system and moving to North Devon soon.

I had a worrying thought the other day. Our new rented house is on the main water supply but waste water goes to a septic tank. I am concerned that if the TDS is high then I won't be able to use an RO system, as I will have nowhere to get rid of the hundreds of litres of waste water. (Ive looked into septic tanks and apparently it's bad to flush so much clean water through).

Ive looked at Southwest waters maps, and the house is firmly in the "soft" water area according to them.

I was going to buy all my kit soon and practice before the move, but now it's got me worried if the TDS is too high, it'll end in disaster as I don't think an RO system would work at that house.

My question is, is it economical long term (or even for the initial few years) to just use a double DI system to produce pure water if my TDS is below 100? 50? Etc. Or will I need a RO system at some point to keep costs down once I'm busy?

If just using DI vessels and resin exclusively, what TDS should I be looking to be under to make it possible costs wise?

I don't have a spotless near the new house unfortunately.

Thanks.

Good evening? Where in North Devon are you moving? 

I'm in Barnstaple and would happily help you out with starting, equipment requirements & training if you would like some support.

My tds ppm reading for Barnstaple is between 56 & 77 on mains water 

Its all soft water here 

Kind regards Austin 

 

[Nick Mitton]

Good evening? Where in North Devon are you moving? 

I'm in Barnstaple and would happily help you out with starting, equipment requirements & training if you would like some support.

My tds ppm reading for Barnstaple is between 56 & 77 on mains water 

Its all soft water here 

Kind regards Austin 

Hi, as regards saving for a trolly I converted to wfp after 30 y of traditional. I've made my own trolly by strapping a Gardner backpack to a sack trolly for £150. Then added 30m of hose and Gardner pole..... Works a treat... Been using it for 3 months now?

 

[PC]

Try collecting as much as you can from the sky believe it or not. I collect mine from house roof and garage and even after coming out of the water butts it’s only reading 008 tops. Sometimes it’s as low as 003. Used it for cleaning at 008 and no problem at all. You probably won’t be able to collect everything you need but every little helps! And you will be surprised just how much you can collect when it hammers it down. You obviously have to factor in dry spells so you can’t rely 100% from above. 
I have some downpipes going direct into an IBC and some into water butts. All depends on the layout of your house really. 

Ps I may be way behind with the thread by the way so apologies if I am ?

 

[Pjj]

Try collecting as much as you can from the sky believe it or not. I collect mine from house roof and garage and even after coming out of the water butts it’s only reading 008 tops. Sometimes it’s as low as 003. Used it for cleaning at 008 and no problem at all. You probably won’t be able to collect everything you need but every little helps! And you will be surprised just how much you can collect when it hammers it down. You obviously have to factor in dry spells so you can’t rely 100% from above. 
I have some downpipes going direct into an IBC and some into water butts. All depends on the layout of your house really. 

Ps I may be way behind with the thread by the way so apologies if I am ?

What do you do for filtering the water to remove solids  ???

 

[PC]

There’s a few things you can use such as stockings and mesh etc but to be honest I just found it a faff. I now don’t do anything. The solids drop to the bottom and I occasionally have a clear out when things are empty. Transferring to the tank in the van can also introduce some solids but the ‘filter’ before the pump takes care of them and yes I do occasionally have to take 10 minutes to clear the tank out as well. My ‘system’ is basic to say the least and there are definitely better ways to do this (loads of stuff on line) but it works for me at the moment and I generally don’t use that much water these days as I’m working on my own. When I get time I will work out a way to refine the whole thing.

 

[Pjj]

There’s a few things you can use such as stockings and mesh etc but to be honest I just found it a faff. I now don’t do anything. The solids drop to the bottom and I occasionally have a clear out when things are empty. Transferring to the tank in the van can also introduce some solids but the ‘filter’ before the pump takes care of them and yes I do occasionally have to take 10 minutes to clear the tank out as well. My ‘system’ is basic to say the least and there are definitely better ways to do this (loads of stuff on line) but it works for me at the moment and I generally don’t use that much water these days as I’m working on my own. When I get time I will work out a way to refine the whole thing.

Don’t you find that you get small bits on the window when rinsing and when dry there are visible ???

 

[rigmarole]

Good evening? Where in North Devon are you moving? 

I'm in Barnstaple and would happily help you out with starting, equipment requirements & training if you would like some support.

My tds ppm reading for Barnstaple is between 56 & 77 on mains water 

Its all soft water here 

Kind regards Austin 

Hi Austin, that would be amazing! Thanks for the kind offer. 

I'll drop you a private message.

Any help is greatly appreciated ?

 

[PC]

No mate. Nothing I’ve ever seen. And no complaints either. 

Just need a good rinse down

 

[Richwcsnd]

Hi Bud I'm in North Devon and you don't need an RO system. 

I know at least 5 other cleaners all using DI.  Average Tds is around 70-80.  Just be sure you are definitely on mains water and not a bore hole. 

Hopefully that helps you. 

 

[Deleted member 7446]

Hi Bud I'm in North Devon and you don't need an RO system. 

I know at least 5 other cleaners all using DI.  Average Tds is around 70-80.  Just be sure you are definitely on mains water and not a bore hole. 

Hopefully that helps you. 

I use DI only here in sunny Barnstaple ?