Should I stick with this controller or get a better one?

[purpleroad]

How about this?.  Got an on off switch too.  I'll try to work out how to use relay on the configuration 

 

[Marko067]

If the stated specs are right then it should be fine though it looks the same as the one in an earlier post that melted on full power. If those specs are right it shouldn't have melted. Most of our pumps don't draw 10 amps on full power.  Maybe it was a faulty one or had a loose connection inside.

 

[purpleroad]

The picture doesn't show the wires connected to the terminal on top as I'd only just done the mod when I took the picture. If you have one of these pumps and remove the two screws on top and remove the cap it will become clear. Do it carefully so you can see how to refit it.

Just removed cap.  I guess terminals are where the wires are soldered?   

Where's the pressure switch.   

 

[Marko067]

Ah! Yes. Mine have spade connectors on the wires so hey can just be pushed on.

 

[purpleroad]

Ah! Yes. Mine have spade connectors on the wires so hey can just be pushed on.

Just stuck a cheap analogue circuit board and controller seems to work.   Any idea why on off button isn't?  Also, where would I wire relay up?

 

[Marko067]

I can't see where the 'On Off' button is in your picture. Is it separate from the flow control dial? On mine there is no integral On Off control on the flow dial. It is fitted in the supply +ve wire. If yours is the same and it's not working it could be a faulty switch/button. 

As for the relay, you have to use the pressure switch on the pump to control the relay instead of the pump. The power for the pump motor should then be routed through the relay using the diagram in my previous post. If you are not sure how to do this it would be good to enlist help from a qualified electrician.

For a coupe of £s it is a mod definitely worth doing as it will extend the life of your pump considerably, especially if you are using one of the higher pressure pumps as they will draw more current at the switching off point.

 

[purpleroad]

I can't see where the 'On Off' button is in your picture. Is it separate from the flow control dial? On mine there is no integral On Off control on the flow dial. It is fitted in the supply +ve wire. If yours is the same and it's not working it could be a faulty switch/button. 

As for the relay, you have to use the pressure switch on the pump to control the relay instead of the pump. The power for the pump should then be routed through the relay using the diagram in my previous post. If you are not sure how to do this it would be good to enlist help from a qualified electrician.

For a coupe of £s it is a mod definitely worth doing as it will extend the life of your pump considerably, especially if you are using one of the higher pressure pumps as they will draw more current at the switching off point.

Thxs

The on switch has three bits which the wires go onto maybe they're terminals.  I only have two wires though.  

Is it the spare third wire off pump which is black which goes onto relay?  Is that the pressure switch one?  I was following your diagram but couldn't work out which wire to use 

Also the relay u gave link to is 30/40 A.   Isn't that too high an ampage?

 

[Marko067]

You will only need two of the terminals on the on off switch. It will normally be the center one and one of the other two. 

As for the relay specs, the motor will likely be drawing 6 or more amps at the point at which it switches off. The 30/40 amp rating of the relay only means that it can more than handle those 6 amps without burning the contact surfaces inside when operated many times, unlike the little microswitch in the back of the pump.

As for the relay wiring, there's no other way I can direct you other than the wiring diagram and the info I've already posted. I'm sorry. 

If you are struggling to work out how to wire it up from the diagram I'd recommend as before getting the help of an electrician to help you.

 

[purpleroad]

Will this do as an on off switch?

 

[Marko067]

I have used these in the past
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/On-Off-Round-Rocker-Switch-Female-Crimp-Spade-Connectors-Car-Boat-12V/281975870755

But my favourite and the most reliable I have used so far for my trolley is one like this with a waterproof cover

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15A-250VAC-2-Pins-SPST-ON-OFF-Toggle-Switch-Waterproof-Cap-Dashboard-XT-11A/112300436417?hash=item1a25a0abc1:m:mJVWhzgsmmFEfSUz8wZxViw

 

[purpleroad]

Ah! Yes. Mine have spade connectors on the wires so hey can just be pushed on.

This is my main pump set up and it's a bit easier to follow where the wires go compared to other box.   Where do  the two wires I'm holding go on the pump?   On the circuit it runs from the relay terminal 86.  

There's also a red wire which runs from positive in controller to battery and has a wire branching off that to the pump pressure switch.  Where is that connected on pump? 

Do I use the three way crimp (in picture) to branch these wires off?  (Bit new to all this electrics.)

On the relay there's a middle terminal called 87a.  I haven't connected anything to that but have connected a wire to 87. Is that ok?

 

[Marko067]

I will say first of all that if anyone uses a Digital controller with a calibration feature then everything below should not be necessary as the Cal feature, if set up correctly should prolong the life of your Pump and pressure switch. For me, as a trolley user who uses a short length of PU hose, the way the Cal feature works causes me problems which is why I prefer this method of protection for my pump. It is also very cost effective to set up and works well.

OK. Here goes, see if this helps

Two important notes

FIRST: Make sure anything you connect to the battery is after the fuse to protect yourself from fire! 

Fit the fuse as close to the battery as possible in the positive wire (+ve)
(This will NOT protect your controller if you get your +ves and -ves mixed up but you shouldn't have a meltdown of your wiring as long as your using a 7-10 amp fuse. I'd recommend the 7 amp fuse myself. (I use 13amp wire because I usually have plenty of it around))

SECOND: Most, if not all Pumps with pressure switches built in come with the pressure switch coupled to the pump motor wiring. They must be uncoupled so that essentially you have two pairs of wires coming from your pump. One pair from the motor and one pair from the pressure switch.

The basics of this wiring is that you have two circuits, one controlling the other. Both circuits get their power from the Battery. 

The 40amp relay is an electrically controlled heavy duty switch that is controlled by a low current circuit using the pressure switch on the pump. This first circuit uses terminals 85 & 86 on the relay. (I've used a smaller guage wire for this circuit on my setup as it helps me trace the cicuit visibly, but you could use different coloured wire for this purpose)

The second circuit is the power circuit to the pump motor which is switched by the relay. This curcuit needs heavier guage wire (due to the greater current it will be carying) and is routed to the motor via Terminals 30 & 87 on the relay and can be connected straight to the motor if you don't wish to use a controller.

(I have my controller wired into this circuit before the relay as can be seen in the drawing. The +ve wire from the controller to the pump motor is routed through T30 & T87 on the relay.)

NB: The +ve motor wire must be connected to T87. (If you connect it to T87a it won't work) 

Finally, nothing should be connected to T87a on the relay

What should happen if wired correctly: When you turn on the system with the master switch, it should go live and the pump should fire up until it brings the system up to pressure then switch off until you open the flow with your Univalve, tap or whatever you use. Thereafter when opening or closing your tap the pump should respond on demand.

One final word: When not using the system, switch it off with the master switch as it consumes a small amount of power to keep the flow turned off

It's good to know how it works as this will help you troubleshoot if necessary. Hopefully it wont be. Mine has served me well for three years or more now and I have to say was not my idea but came from a fellow window cleaner on the forums. 

 

[purpleroad]

I will say first of all that if anyone uses a Digital controller with a calibration feature then everything below should not be necessary as the Cal feature, if set up correctly should prolong the life of your Pump and pressure switch. For me, as a trolley user who uses a short length of PU hose, the way the Cal feature works causes me problems which is why I prefer this method of protection for my pump. It is also very cost effective to set up and works well.

OK. Here goes, see if this helps

Two important notes

FIRST: Make sure anything you connect to the battery is after the fuse to protect yourself from fire! 

Fit the fuse as close to the battery as possible in the positive wire (+ve)
(This will NOT protect your controller if you get your +ves and -ves mixed up but you shouldn't have a meltdown of your wiring as long as your using a 7-10 amp fuse. I'd recommend the 7 amp fuse myself. (I use 13amp wire because I usually have plenty of it around))

SECOND: Most, if not all Pumps with pressure switches built in come with the pressure switch coupled to the pump motor wiring. They must be uncoupled so that essentially you have two pairs of wires coming from your pump. One pair from the motor and one pair from the pressure switch.

The basics of this wiring is that you have two circuits, one controlling the other. Both circuits get their power from the Battery. 

The 40amp relay is an electrically controlled heavy duty switch that is controlled by a low current circuit using the pressure switch on the pump. This first circuit uses terminals 85 & 86 on the relay. (I've used a smaller guage wire for this circuit on my setup as it helps me trace the cicuit visibly, but you could use different coloured wire for this purpose)

The second circuit is the power circuit to the pump motor which is switched by the relay. This curcuit needs heavier guage wire (due to the greater current it will be carying) and is routed to the motor via Terminals 30 & 87 on the relay and can be connected straight to the motor if you don't wish to use a controller.

(I have my controller wired into this circuit before the relay as can be seen in the drawing. The +ve wire from the controller to the pump motor is routed through T30 & T87 on the relay.)

NB: The +ve motor wire must be connected to T87. (If you connect it to T87a it won't work) 

Finally, nothing should be connected to T87a on the relay

What should happen if wired correctly: When you turn on the system with the master switch, it should go live and the pump should fire up until it brings the system up to pressure then switch off until you open the flow with your Univalve, tap or whatever you use. Thereafter when opening or closing your tap the pump should respond on demand.

One final word: When not using the system, switch it off with the master switch as it consumes a small amount of power to keep the flow turned off

It's good to know how it works as this will help you troubleshoot if necessary. Hopefully it wont be. Mine has served me well for three years or more now and I have to say was not my idea but came from a fellow window cleaner on the forums. 

Thxs.  

Just basic questions - are the three way crimps what I use where where I've put the arrows in diagram in picture ?

I assume the bottom of pumps is the pressure switch.  I have two  pumps which I will use (in photos).  Do I yank out the connectors in the shuffllo pump and which wire goes where?

Do I solder them onto cheaper pump (also in photo)?

Again I'm such a novice.  Which coloured crimps would you recommend using?  I've  been mixing them up 

 

[Marko067]

[SIZE=17.94px]Just basic questions - are the three way crimps what I use where I've put the arrows in diagram in picture ? [/SIZE]  (Yes, that should work)

[SIZE=17.94px] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px]I assume the bottom of pumps is the pressure switch. (Yes, where your arrows are)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px]I have two  pumps which I will use (in photos).  Do I yank out the connectors in the shuffllo pump and which wire goes where? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px](Like I said you need to separate the wiring on the pumps so you have two pairs of wires for each pump. One pair from the pressure switch and one pair from the motor. Once you have done that, following the wiring diagram should be easier)[/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px]Do I solder them onto cheaper pump (also in photo)?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px]Again I'm such a novice.  Which coloured crimps would you recommend using?  I've  been mixing them up.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=17.94px](Whether you solder the wires or use spade connectors on the pressure switches of you smaller pumps is again up to you. However, if you use spade connectors make sure you clean the solder off as best you can or you’ll likely get a poor fit.)[/SIZE]

 

[purpleroad]

 I'm using the cheaper pump over winter so I soldered the wires onto the pressure switch and left the ones from pump as they were.    Got it all working finally.   

 

[Marko067]

I have to be honest I wouldn’t have thought that would work leaving the other wires connected on the pressure switch, but hey ho if it works, great. Do test it connected to your water tank and pole etc. The first time I ran mine with water in after I wired it up, it was all good till I tried to turn it off. Then it went crazy making all sorts of chattering sounds and wouldn’t turn off. When I checked the wiring, I’d got one of the connections wrong on the relay.

All the best

 

[purpleroad]

I have to be honest I wouldn’t have thought that would work leaving the other wires connected on the pressure switch, but hey ho if it works, great. Do test it connected to your water tank and pole etc. The first time I ran mine with water in after I wired it up, it was all good till I tried to turn it off. Then it went crazy making all sorts of chattering sounds and wouldn’t turn off. When I checked the wiring, I’d got one of the connections wrong on the relay.

All the best

Oh I see.   Shall I just pull them off and leave them dangling not connected to anything?

One of the three way connectors came off and it still worked so not sure what's going on but the pump was working

 

[Marko067]

These small Pumps come supplied with the motor and pressure switch wired together. For the relay system to work they must be separated because we are now going to use the pressure switch to control the relay. The relay in turn will control the pump motor. 

You appear to still have the original wiring in place on the pump as you have four wires connected to the pressure switch.
 

If this is the case, you need to take the original two wires off the pressure switch and join them together (then insulate them)

The only way to test it is to do it live, as you would when working. The way I did it was to hook up two short pieces of hose to the pump. Put one end in a bucket of water and prime the pump. Then with the system running fold the output hose on itself to stop the flow. If it’s wired correctly the pump will stop. When you unfold the hose the pump should start again.